Final Fantasy VII

[GhaleonOne]

By now, I've probably been pegged as some Final Fantasy 7 psycho, nutcase, fanboy with too much Final Fantasy in his brain. FF7 isn't even in my top 10 of favorite RPGS. I'm just defending a great game. I'll take Valkyrie Profile, BoF3, Alundra, Star Oceans, and Lunars any day of the week over FF7.

I can understand where you're coming from. I definately hope I didn't come across as combative, and I doubt anyone else on the board does either. At least, I hope noone thinks you're a FF7 fanboy, as I certainly didn't take it that way. I just had beef with your list specifically, and the thought that FF7 was some kind of measuring stick. I mainly said I disagreed in that, the RPGs that tried to clone FF7 were somewhat lackluster IMO, whereas, many of the RPGs that came out post-FF7 that did their own thing (Suikoden's, Grandia's, Valkryie Profile, etc.) were great. The only thing RPGs owe FF7 is that FF7 was hyped to no end and therefor, sold well, putting RPGs on the map more. But in terms of FF7 affected the style in RPGs after it was released, I don't really agree.

And a side note, Zelda 64 probably had just as much to do with putting RPGs on the map as FF7, even if it's an Action RPG, rather than a standard RPG.

(is still waiting for Eric to jump in with his defense of FF7 )

[Imperial Knight]

I tend to agree with the opinion that the impact of Final Fantasy VII on the RPG genre is often overstated. It did help popularize the genre in America (though the average RPG still isn't a huge seller), but I don't think it really changed the way RPGs were made all that much. A lot of what it did either mirrored changes that were going on in other genres as well (e.g. the use of 3D graphics) or just applied new technology to things the series had already started doing (e.g. elaborate cutscenes). While many RPGs did, to some extent, follow FFVII's footsteps, others (including many of the best ones) largely did their own thing. It's also worth noting that, in Japan, Final Fantasy VIII actually outsold FFVII, and Dragon Quest games consistently outsell Final Fantasy games.

I don't want to give the impression that I don't think anything that FFVII did was original, or that it didn't have any impact on the genre, just that the impact is often overstated.

I liked 3 myself, 2 was really good but 3 was just a tad better and seemed more complete. You can easliy miss out alot in 2.

also Annette=Rrrrrrrrraww <3

Annette is my favorite character from Growlanser III. Aside from being quite good-looking, she also has what I would consider an appealing personality. I like how she manages to be so down-to-earth despite coming from such a wealthy and powerful family, and how she doesn't take any nonsense from anyone. I also think it's neat how Career Soft made her the strongest character in the party. I realize that it shouldn't have to be notable when a game has a female as the strongest character, but as it is so few do that it's refreshing to see one that does.

I also like her battle cry: "You cheap sack of grits!"

By the way, I sent you a PM about Growlanser, did you see it?

Thanks for letting me know. The first board I ever joined automatically notified me if I had any new PMs, which put me in the habit of not checking often enough.

[BraveKing]

I rember one time some time on gamefaqs I think, getting into an argument over wich RPGs had the best Localizations, I mentioned SSSC and one guy kept trying to say FF7 was. Clearly it would seem that "This guy are sick"

I tink the biggest problem with the game isnt so much weatehr it's bad or not but simply that people wont let it go, and Have to keep bringing it up no matter what the discussion is about.

[PurifyWeirdSoul]

And once again you're missing the point. You cannot make a list of games that came out post-FF7 to support your claim that FF7 somehow has credit for them coming out and include installments of series that were established well before then. People didn't buy Zelda 5 because they liked FF7, they bought it because they liked the earlier installments of the series, as you yourself mention. (Same with DQ, which I've heard is bigger than FF in Japan.) Link's Awakening surely came out before 1997, and the Oracles games are more closely related to it than to the 3D ones. (I consider WW the weakest of the Zeldas, by the way.)

I never said those games were based off of FF7. My list is a list of games that came out AFTER FF7, whether they are similar to FF7 or not. It is not relavent that alot of those games don't share much similarities to the FF series. My point, was to say the demise of the RPG genre didn't happen with FF7. That post was to justify my standing that the RPG genre is still very well alive. Go to page 3, where I reply to Shiva Indis' quote. Never did I say, FF7 is the godfather of rpgs. Never did I say FF7 should be credited with those titles coming out.

Windwaker being the weakest? Possibly, but I've never played a terrible Zelda.

Furthermore, Zelda may be called an action-RPG, but its origins are hardly RPGlike in the sense of, say, FF1. And the debate on whether it should be called an RPG at all continues to this day. Adventure might be a better term.

You have your opinions, I have mine. Let's leave it at that. No need to overcomplicate this thread with the nuisances of what deems necessary for a game to be classified as an 'RPG'. Let's leave it to another thread.

Alundra is, as you mention, a Zelda-type game, and as such owes little or nothing to FF7. And are you looking at Japanese releases or American? Obviously the Lunars were not released domestically until after FF7, which suggests you're using Japanese dates, but you omit Growlanser I (1999, and superior to II) and list DQ7 as DW.

Again, I never said Alundra wouldn't have existed if FF7 didn't happen. And yes, most of my releases are Japanese based. They are when the actual games were released. Since these games are developed by the Japanese development houses, I don't see a need to list the U.S. dates.

I might have possibly gotten DQ and DW mixed up. To clarify, Dragon Warrior 7 (PS) and Dragon Quest 8 (PS2) are definately good RPGs.

And you pretty much undo your implied claim of authority in assessment of what stood out in the crowd by so clearly indicating that your personal taste has eliminated games which other people here have said they consider to be worthy of inclusion.

I specifically stated that those were the games I have played that were good, in the following posts. In essence, as a form of verification. How can I verify if a game is good if I haven't played it? Like I said, I haven't played every single RPG ever made, and I'm sure I missed quite a few good ones.

It seems I have gotten on everyones' bad side with my 'elitist views'. Well, don't take it that way. If you don't like those RPGs I mentioned. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I'm not out to evangelize people into playing them.

[PurifyWeirdSoul]

I can understand where you're coming from. I definately hope I didn't come across as combative, and I doubt anyone else on the board does either. At least, I hope noone thinks you're a FF7 fanboy, as I certainly didn't take it that way. I just had beef with your list specifically, and the thought that FF7 was some kind of measuring stick. I mainly said I disagreed in that, the RPGs that tried to clone FF7 were somewhat lackluster IMO, whereas, many of the RPGs that came out post-FF7 that did their own thing (Suikoden's, Grandia's, Valkryie Profile, etc.) were great. The only thing RPGs owe FF7 is that FF7 was hyped to no end and therefor, sold well, putting RPGs on the map more. But in terms of FF7 affected the style in RPGs after it was released, I don't really agree.

And a side note, Zelda 64 probably had just as much to do with putting RPGs on the map as FF7, even if it's an Action RPG, rather than a standard RPG.

(is still waiting for Eric to jump in with his defense of FF7 )

Nope, you certainly didn't come off as aggressive to me. Sometimes I have some difficulty trying to convey what exactly I want to say. It usually takes me awhile, and if I offended anyone I apologize. You've basically said everything that needs to be said, in one cohesive paragraph. But I do find the hype was justified, for me at least. Great characters (Except I just hated Yuffie. She didn't seem to add much to the already great cast of characters), storyline, replayability, excellent battle system (I highly enjoyed the materia system). Other than the random battles, the only flaw (I can think of at this moment) as with many FF games, is the concept of love. In that regard, the Lunar series takes that concept and runs with it.

[PurifyWeirdSoul]

I think the biggest problem with your list is how it's presented. If it were just presented as a list of personal favorites, or even as "I think these are some of the best RPGs out there" I'm not so sure it would have gotten the same reactions. But when you have it as "games every RPG fan should own" it comes off a little too much like trying to force your opinions on others (even if it wasn't necessarily intended that way), so people are going to disagree pretty strongly with it. I certainly don't agree with every inclusion/exclusion on that list. For instance, after playing Disgaea, there's no way I'd actually buy any other Nippon Ichi SRPGs.

Yes, I could've worked on my presentation. As for Nippon Ichi, it may be an acquired taste. If one doesn't like strategy-rpgs, they most likely will not like Nippon Ichi games. Although I hold FF: Tactics fairly highly, I know some people who despise the game. As with alot of games, there are going to be the haters. I know a person who hates RPGs, and no matter how good a game is, he's not going to like it. It's the same with Alundra 1. There are RPG fans that HATE the game because of the difficulty. I don't particularly find the difficulty a bane, but refreshing from the easy, straight-forward rpgs.

I happen to like Growlanser III better, and opinions among Americans who have played the games tend to be pretty evenly split as to whether GL2 or GL3 is better. But perhaps more to the point, they're sold together, so if you own one you own the other. Now, the imports aren't sold together, but then you'd have to factor in Growlanser and Growlanser IV, both of which are nearly universally acknowledged to be better than GL2 and GL3 (a sentiment I agree with).

I have Growlanser Generations, both the deluxe and vanilla copy. I try to support Working Designs as much as possible. In the past, I was unable to because I was just a kid with no money, but it's too late now. Anyways, that statement was a reply to someone who found Growlanser III omitted from my list. Now I love growlanser, but I personally didn't find the series top tier.

[Alunissage]

Are you referring to me? If so, it was the original Growlanser I was saying should have been there, not III. It wasn't clear whether you were excluding Japanese-only games or not.

[Imperial Knight]

I actually like SRPGs, just not Nippon Ichi's take on the genre. Disgaea seemed awfully repetitive to my tastes.

[BraveKing]

I actually like SRPGs, just not Nippon Ichi's take on the genre. Disgaea seemed awfully repetitive to my tastes.

Dude, Super Robot Wars then. GEt em when they come out, it's an awesome series

[Werefrog]

<Long Response Removed Due To Sticking Foot In One's Mouth>