What do you think the last Lunar should be about?

[Kizyr]

The Dragonmaster is still gone. In Lucia's experience, if humans can beat Zophar without the Dragonmaster status, what else could they possibly need it for? A current threat during the course of that game may force Lucia to ressurect the job. A modified version of it, of course, to take into account there's now 5 dragons instead of 4 with trials to pass.

The only purpose of a Dragonmaster is to protect and serve the goddess. They're granted the ability to command the four dragons to carry out this duty. If there's no goddess (or current incarnation thereof), then there's no use for a Dragonmaster.

To defeat Zophar, a Dragonmaster would've been irrelevant from the get-go. After the "Althena" in EB proved to be a fake, everything would've logically fell apart. Hence why Ghaleon was a False Dragonmaster, just like the Althena was fake.

You got a fake Althena, a false Dragonmaster, and evil Zophar. The unholy trinity's right there. KF

[phyco126]

Also, the fact that people claim that Hiro was a Dragonmaster, while other don't. It could be possible that since there is no Althena, there can be no Dragonmaster. That is why Hiro was never a Dragonmaster, he just had the stuff, but still wasn't a Dragonmaster.

[NallOne]

First of all, it's painfully obvious. We've already been told that the return to the Blue Star is going to come. It's not a fresh, new idea. (This is sort of why I'm not really super-excited about a Four Heroes game, unless they find some wild spin to put on it.)

All we've seen of the Blue Star is vague images of it's final days, and of course the couple scenes in EB. We know very little of it's history, or of how differently people lived there compared to on Lunar. I, for one, would love to explore the many ruins on the Blue Star to learn about the history of the planet.

For all intents and purposes, the history of the Blue Star is just as much a part of Lunar's own history. It all began there, after all. Not to mention it has basically been the destiny of the people of Lunar to eventually return to their motherland, considering Lucia's existence and purpose.

Second, up to now, the Lunar games have been primarily medievel-esque fantasy games, with little bits of sci-fi thrown in. A game about space travel is straight-up sci-fi, and would be a HUGE departure from the basic feel of the Lunar series.

I don't see how traveling to the Blue Star would have to involve any actual 'space travel'. No more than a quick zap or Teleportation from one planet to the other. If that was all it took to classify it as 'straight-up sci-fi', then Lunar has already made that leap seeing as the last game ended with Hiro taking a tiny space voyage to the Blue Star.

Third, it would basically kill the franchise. Once the people return to the Blue Star, there's no more future stories to tell about the people of Lunar. So any more future Lunar games would have to be prequels. And yeah, prequels are nice and all (I'm super-excited about Lunar: Dragon Song), but I really want some new stories that will have new big developments for the world of Lunar.

So yeah. No going back to the Blue Star.

I don't see how you've come to this conclusion at all. How would it kill the franchise? The future of Lunar is on the Blue Star, and just because the general populous would be making a move there doesn't make them any less the people of Lunar that they were in the previous games. Not to mention if, like I hope, you are able to move between the Blue Star and Lunar during the game there would be plenty of room to advance Lunar itself as well as the people's future on the Blue Star.

I'm sure we'd see those eager to return to their motherland and explore their heritage, while others would be dead set against the idea of leaving the only home they've ever known to go on some boat ride into the sky. It would make an interesting theme, I think. That is assuming the game would take place during the transition and not hundreds (or 1000, keeping with tradition) years into the future where the transition itself is just a part of 'history'.

As far as a Four Heroes game: How much do we really know about that time in Lunar's history? I'm talking from the games here. As far as I remember, we don't even have any details of what 'evil' threatened Lunar. Just because we know how it ends doesn't mean we've got a great idea of all of the events that took place. I mean, look at Dragon Song: We know, in the least, that Althena and Lunar itself are going to survive whatever tribulations it faces just fine. So there aren't going to be any real "Oh my, I hope the world doesn't end / She doesn't get 'killed' / etc" moments. Except I suppose for people new to the series.

Summary: I really want it to take place on the Blue Star or during the transition. I've been waiting so many years and for some reason (I blame fanfics ) always anticipated the next game to showcase just that - It would be a bit weird if that never happened.

[ilovemyguitar]

I get what you're saying, and I know that I'm probably in the minority in not wanting to see a Four Heroes game or one about the return to the Blue Star.

The reason I'm not excited about such ideas is that they're not new. We've already been told that the four heroes had an adventure, and that the people of Lunar will eventually return to the Blue Star. I want a game that's 100% fresh and new, not something that we know happened, or will happen.

And there's a big difference between Hiro making a trip to the Blue Star at the end of Lunar 2, and having an entire game centered around travel between Lunar and the Blue Star. That would be the difference between a fantasy setting with bits of sci-fi, and a straight-up sci-fi setting.

[Angelalex242]

Well, Lucia IS a goddess.

So, in theory, she might want protectors. I just said she probably wouldn't bother with Dragonmasters when Hiro protected her just fine without the extra help.

[phyco126]

Actually, we only have speculation that she may or may not be a goddess.

[ilovemyguitar]

Well, she don't know for sure that Lucia's a goddess. I kinda think she is, but she might also be more like a demi-goddess or something else.

In case you can't tell from my other posts tonight, I'm very much in a devil's advocate mood at the moment.

[Alunissage]

Let's see. Ruby says she looks sort of like a goddess. The Hasukawa interview says that she and Althena are "almost like sisters". And there's a suggestion that she's Althena's subordinate, to me, rather than her equal. I think another interview did say or imply that Lucia, Althena, and Zophar were all the same type of being. I'll have to search for it, though.

[phyco126]

Well, personally I've always felt that Lucia was a goddess, but not with as much power as Althena herself. After all, she is called the Princess of the Blue Star, am I right? I mean, if there is two gods, then I think it is safe to say that Lucia could certainly be a god too. I wonder how many other Gods there are...

But last time I said that I felt Lucia was a Goddess, people called me crazy! So you're all crazy!

[ilovemyguitar]

If Lucia is indeed a goddess, it's possible that she's subordinate to Althena on Lunar because that's Althena's territory. Sort of like how in Greek mythology, all the gods and goddesses had their own aspects, and things that they governed, and other deities had to respect their turf.

[Alunissage]

That's pretty much how I see it, that Lucia is similar to Althena but lesser. It may not make geographic sense, but it makes population sense. Althena leads the people, both on the Blue Star and on Lunar before her retirement. Lucia gets to sit in a crystal on a dead world. Well, not sit, I guess.

At one point in the development they considered having two crystals there, one empty...

[phyco126]

... and Althena get's all the fame and glory! Right? RIGHT?

[ilovemyguitar]

I suppose that if they had gone with the two crystals, it would have implied that Lucia and Althena were more equal.

And I'm pretty that at least part of the reason they didn't go with the two crystals is because it would have conflicted with the mythology that Althena resided in the Goddess Tower on Lunar.

[Angelalex242]

There I agree.

My theory was, Lucia is Althena's younger sister. They look enough alike. Further, Lucia's capable of claiming big sister's mantle when she tries.

However, I would also postulate that, though Lucia starts a lesser being then Althena, by claiming Althena's power, the aggregate is actually greater then what Althena was. If inexperienced.

Lucia+Althena>Althena, provided Lucia>0. And she is most certainly much, much greater then 0. Further, Lucia's natural power is likely enough to make a difference. It's not like we're adding 1,000,000 and 1,000. Maybe something like....1,000,000, and 750,000.

...that sounds fair. Lucia's about 3/4 of what Althena was on her own. Meaning, Blue Spire Lucia before she gets cursed is 3/4 of what Althena was.

So, post absorption, she's 175% of what Althena was.

If Lucia keeps Althena's power, and tosses Hiro in for good measure...that'd explain why she eventually successfully revives a planet 100 times the size of Lunar.

Ya know, if Lucia had had practice using Althena's power, she'd probably have been able to nuke Zophar without nuking the planet. But, she didn't, and that would've ruined the whole point of the story, so.

[GhaleonOne]

But Althena herself didn't even have the "practice" of using Althena's power to defeat Zophar without destroying the Blue Star.

And I think you're all wrong. Seemed to me, Lucia lost Althena's power when Zophar took it. In effect, Hiro and the gang defeated not only Zophar and his powers, but Althena's power as well.

[Angelalex242]

Oh, I know Lucia lost it.

I'm just saying she took it back.

Granted, your way makes for a more dramatic point. And realism is rather irrelevant in a video game.

Then again, it IS a trifle more realistic to defeat one god then the aggreagate power of two. See my point about power stacking, above.

Besides, in the start of that fight, when Lucia's captured, he hits you with Althena's power. He stops doing that when Lucia breaks free and he loses his first two hands.

That extra set of hands could be postulated to be Althena's hands, (OmniZophar's picture only shows two arms when animated...) and when he loses those, he's on his own.

He certainly doesn't have Althena's power anymore when it's Hiro and Lucia vs. Zophar. Lucia would assuredly have stripped him of it by then.

At which point, it's actually the Power of Humanity COMBINING with Divine Power that struck Zophar down for good.

[Alunissage]

Well, you do seem to have a pro-Lucia bias.

There's no correlation between Lucia breaking free and Zophar's arms. You can defeat him by attacking only his head, and his arms will stick around to the end. Also, it's been a while since I played, but I believe the drift of his having Lucia there is that he's using her attacks.

There's no particular reason to assume that Lucia has the ability to take Althena's power back from him, let alone that she "assuredly" would have done so. Zophar is not defeated because he lost Althena's power; he is defeated because the power of humanity is stronger, as Althena herself realized.

If anything, Althena's power probably would have gone to repairing the damage to Lunar that Zophar did, as it did when the Fortress crashed in SSSC.

Oh, and regarding sisters, the developer said, as I mentioned, that they were "almost like sisters". Therefore, they're not sisters.

The point about the crystals isn't that Althena would have been there instead of in the goddess tower. It would have been that she was originally from the Blue Star and left there to become the goddess of Lunar. Remember, this was during EB's initial development, when the whole fortress thing hadn't been thought up yet.

[Angelalex242]

By that same token, though, there's a lot more damage done to the Blue Star...and what's going to repair that? If the Blue Star is to be repaired within Hiro's lifetime...and 50 years is damn short from a divine perspective.

And that's not what I remember.

I recall Zophar's head not being targetable till you shear the first two arms off. Even Lemina's Catastrophe won't his head while the first two arms are there.

...and yes, I <3 Lucia. I just try to be very reasonable and logical in my support.

[GhaleonOne]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm not sure anyone has entertained the possibility that Hiro stays with Lucia in the crystal (and the crystal is some kind of age-halting chamber) and would be alive with Lucia during the Blue Star's revival. Plus, how much time elapsed between Hiro coming to Lucia on the Blue Star, and when we see Hiro and Lucia watching the land reviving. Just some thoughts to think about.

[Angelalex242]

I didn't go there, no.

But making a mortal immortal has to be rather difficult. Look at all the energy it takes Zophar keeping Ghaleon around...

...Wait a minute.

If Zophar can keep Ghaleon around, and he's god of Destruction...something not traditionally associated with life and keeping people alive...

Lucia should be able to do much, much better at it. Especially with Althena's power, and therefore absorbing her love/beauty/creation aspects, which I still maintain she takes with her. Humanity didn't need it anymore anyway.

...maybe the sad scenario I envisoned doesn't have to be that way after all.

Unless, of course, Hiro were to insist on dying for some reason.