Lunar Threads

I thought I remembered hearing something about him being 1000 years old. Then I thought about Lunar DS. He must have been born around the time of the events in that game. Any thoughts?

I don't remember any of the games mentioning a set number, but I always assumed a couple hundred.

Then again, there's this saying about assuming...

That's another weird thing about Lunar DS. Nall is 1000 years old in EB and looks young. Quark has no given age, but looks far older than Nall did in EB. Which would make one think he was the white dragon in DS, but he wasn't?

We can't really look at DS as cannon regardless of what story elements are incorporated. None of the dragons are given names in that era as I recall. Quark is thousands of years old, not hundreds.

If using Nall as reference at 1000 in EB and still retaining a youthful dragon appearance, you can only imagine multiplying that number tenfold. Quark was the tiertrach(sp?) of the Dragon Tribe, essentially the chief so he was older than all of the colored dragons. There's no way of even guessing how old the Star Dragon is in Eternal Blue, because in essence he may have been around since the end of the Blue Star.

I know there's material out there that suggests 1000 years pass between Lunar 1 and Lunar 2, but it seems like the game's staff was thinking more like half a millenium. In the Lunar 1 & 2 artbook Nall's (Lunar 2) age is given as "about 400 years" as I recall. But even supposing that Nall is middle-aged, he doesn't act like it.

Yeah, I always thought that 1000 years seemed like a bit of a stretch for the time between TSS and EB....

In regards to Quark's age, was it ever specified that Quark was a shape-shifter like Nall (and Ruby I guess)? Perhaps if he was just a "regular" dragon, maybe that would explain his quicker aging....

I think the I+II artbook says Nall is 500-600 years old. Seems to me the 1000 years between Lunar 1 and Lunar 2 was a WD thing, though I'm not positive of that.

I know there was some speculation that Quark was only the second white dragon (after the original one who came to Lunar with Althena and who died or equivalent in Genesis), but don't remember what that was based on.

Quark does clearly seem much older than the rest of the dragons, though that comparison really is only in the remakes. In TSS you never see the other three dragons in the flesh, and Quark doesn't look as ancient. There isn't really a reason given for Nall's existence, either. Wouldn't it make more sense for him to have been a baby black dragon, since the old black dragon had been confined or killed? Someone in Cadin recognizes him, too, relatively near the site of the demise of the previous black dragon. In the remakes, there still isn't a reason for Nall's existence, but Quark being visibly older than the other dragons suggests that he was near his end anyway. For all we know Quark's power could have been unusually drained by the events preceding Lunar 1, prematurely aging him into requiring a successor.

The whole shape-shifting thing still seems like one of the stupider ideas for this series to me, but I suppose we're stuck with it.

The dragons' history is definitely one that needs to be elaborated on, and it would benefit the story. In Eternal Blue the Star Dragon comes out of nowhere, and he pretty much is only referenced as the gate keeper to the Blue Star. Ok, so where did you come from? Logically you would think he existed since the time of the Blue Star.

Come on Shigema, clear out those cobwebs and define the story.

Personally, I would love Lunar 3 to have the 5 dragons, in human form, as the main characters. I don't know what kind of story would be involved, but it would definitely be a good chance to flesh out the dragons history. Then again, you're talking to a Nall fanboy here, so maybe I'm just looking for a reason to play as him.

5 Dragons in human form for Lunar 3 doesn't seem fitting for the Lunar series. *even though the idea is interesting* I think Lunar needs to stick with the Humanity theme, its nice. Although as I'm playing SSH I'm starting to realize how much I don't like it. I think pre-Luna Lunar would need a different theme and morality lesson. Post-Luna would be all about humans relying on themselves. But personally I find a high value on relying on God, I enjoy those types of themes. Although of course that would never happen. Anyway back on topic.

A Lunar 3 in the future would be interesting, but I think that a story about the 1st Dragonmaster and his/her (I'm pretty sure its a guy) failure to protect Althena & the Blue Star would be far more interesting, plus Zophar would return and so would Lucia! I think making a story about the fall of Humanity and the wicked desire to destroy everything would be neat. Plus being the last remnant of people who don't follow that would be cool.

Lunar 3 would be difficult to make because I think a lot of people are expecting a continuation of Hiro & Lucia's story. I don't think there is a protagonist left in Lunar 2, unless they pulled something out of the Blue Star. I think that would be weak and lame.

Aaron wrote:A Lunar 3 in the future would be interesting, but I think that a story about the 1st Dragonmaster and his/her (I'm pretty sure its a guy) failure to protect Althena & the Blue Star would be far more interesting, plus Zophar would return and so would Lucia! I think making a story about the fall of Humanity and the wicked desire to destroy everything would be neat. Plus being the last remnant of people who don't follow that would be cool.

This doesn't make sense. The first dragonmaster would be the first dragonmaster in response to the move to Lunar, not before it. There's no implication of "failure" in any way -- Althena won, remember? She wasn't the one under attack that we could see, and there's no reason to think she needed a protector. And it isn't even clear that it was her job or anyone else's to protect humanity prior to the move to Lunar. The people appealed to her to save them, but that doesn't say anything about the relationship between her and humans before that appeal. After they got to Lunar all circumstances were different; she had to protect them in this new potentially hostile environment and heal them from the trauma of war. The first Dragonmaster helped her make the land habitable and would have a role then, but there's nothing saying he had also been expected to protect the Blue Star. If he had, he wouldn't have been the first Dragonmaster; it would have been an established role. Lucia is the protector of the Blue Star (probably only from the time of the migration to Lunar), not a Dragonmaster.

In one of Vain's library books (don't remember if it was L1 or L2) it mentions that the first Dragonmaster was a man named Lou (I think), who came down to Lunar with Althena after the Blue Star went kaput. So if we go by this little tidbit, it would seem that there was the role of Dragonmaster on the Blue Star, unless maybe this Lou person wasn't known as Dragonmaster until after coming to Lunar.

Louie, not Lou. Yes, it's stated that he came to Lunar with Althena and was the first Dragonmaster, but nothing is said about what he did prior to that. He may not even have been called that until years after they went to Lunar.

Blue_Sycro wrote:In one of Vain's library books (don't remember if it was L1 or L2) it mentions that the first Dragonmaster was a man named Lou (I think), who came down to Lunar with Althena after the Blue Star went kaput. So if we go by this little tidbit, it would seem that there was the role of Dragonmaster on the Blue Star, unless maybe this Lou person wasn't known as Dragonmaster until after coming to Lunar.

You are right, and that is where I am drawing my idea from. The first Dragonmaster Lou.

Alunissage wrote:This doesn't make sense. The first dragonmaster would be the first dragonmaster in response to the move to Lunar, not before it. There's no implication of "failure" in any way -- Althena won, remember? She wasn't the one under attack that we could see, and there's no reason to think she needed a protector. And it isn't even clear that it was her job or anyone else's to protect humanity prior to the move to Lunar. The people appealed to her to save them, but that doesn't say anything about the relationship between her and humans before that appeal. After they got to Lunar all circumstances were different; she had to protect them in this new potentially hostile environment and heal them from the trauma of war. The first Dragonmaster helped her make the land habitable and would have a role then, but there's nothing saying he had also been expected to protect the Blue Star. If he had, he wouldn't have been the first Dragonmaster; it would have been an established role. Lucia is the protector of the Blue Star (probably only from the time of the migration to Lunar), not a Dragonmaster.

I don't know how you count victory. But if I were a god and I had all of my creation rebel against me (except for a few), and as a result I had to firebomb the planet I made. I think that would count as a major loss or at the very least a stalemate. Look up Dragonmaster Lou, he existed on the Blue Star. He should have been capable enough to destroy Zophar. Zophar also wanted to destroy Althena, hence the threat.

Also it says he was the Dragonmaster and his footprint was the first on Lunar. How more specific can you get? Unless he became a Dragonmaster at the start of the flight between the Blue Star and Lunar...but I doubt that. I think he was definitely a Dragonmaster before or during the fall of the Blue Star/Zophar's reign.

Are you being intentionally dense?

Do we know that the people of the Blue Star and the Blue Star itself was Althena's creation? No.

Do we know if she was even the leader of the people of the Blue Star when Zophar arrived and was rebelled against? No.

Do we know if there was such a role as Dragonmaster on the Blue Star? No.

Do we know if Louie / Lui (not Lou) was ever given the title of Dragonmaster during his lifetime, rather than by history? No.

Do we know whether there was any reason for a Dragonmaster to exist on the Blue Star primary to the exodus to Lunar? No.

Do we know if he, whether called Dragonmaster or not, had anything to do with the war with Zophar that drove humans to Lunar? No.

Here's what we know: that Zophar took power from the evil in humanity; that some humans became monsters; that people asked Althena to save them; that she confined Zophar and destroyed the Blue Star; that she led them to the Silver Star; that the first Dragonmaster and the four dragons helped her make Lunar inhabitable; that it's rumored that the first Dragonmaster's footprint still exists; that Lucia was left behind on the Blue Star. We can also add from the prologue to EB that Althena had made a part of Lunar habitable as a garden for her own amusement before letting the humans in.

We don't know if Althena is supposed to have created humans, but it seems pretty unlikely. She's clearly not an omnipotent or omniscient god. We don't know if she ruled over humans. If she did, and if she had a Dragonmaster to help her, both of which you assert, doesn't it seem pretty bloody unlikely that the first Dragonmaster would be the one who went to Lunar?

I don't think a Dragonmaster alone would've been able to defeat Zophar anyway. I don't recall any mention of his party, but I could be wrong. Dragonmaster Alex could barely stand against Ghaleon by himself and I imagine Zophar is stronger than Ghaleon.

Dragonmaster Lou = the first person to create a Lunar-related webpage
Dragonmaster Louie = the first Dragonmaster

They're both all-around nice guys. KF

Alunissage wrote:Are you being intentionally dense?

Do we know that the people of the Blue Star and the Blue Star itself was Althena's creation? No.

Do we know if she was even the leader of the people of the Blue Star when Zophar arrived and was rebelled against? No.

Do we know if there was such a role as Dragonmaster on the Blue Star? No.

Do we know if Louie / Lui (not Lou) was ever given the title of Dragonmaster during his lifetime, rather than by history? No.

Do we know whether there was any reason for a Dragonmaster to exist on the Blue Star primary to the exodus to Lunar? No.

Do we know if he, whether called Dragonmaster or not, had anything to do with the war with Zophar that drove humans to Lunar? No.

Here's what we know: that Zophar took power from the evil in humanity; that some humans became monsters; that people asked Althena to save them; that she confined Zophar and destroyed the Blue Star; that she led them to the Silver Star; that the first Dragonmaster and the four dragons helped her make Lunar inhabitable; that it's rumored that the first Dragonmaster's footprint still exists; that Lucia was left behind on the Blue Star. We can also add from the prologue to EB that Althena had made a part of Lunar habitable as a garden for her own amusement before letting the humans in.

We don't know if Althena is supposed to have created humans, but it seems pretty unlikely. She's clearly not an omnipotent or omniscient god. We don't know if she ruled over humans. If she did, and if she had a Dragonmaster to help her, both of which you assert, doesn't it seem pretty bloody unlikely that the first Dragonmaster would be the one who went to Lunar?

I'm not being dense I'm being sincere.

You also left out that Humans on the Blue Star fought amongst themselves.

I want to make a quick comment on literature in general. When has there ever really been a god or goddess that has been omniscient? I can't think of a story that does.

I think Althena's fact as the only good god was reinforced in the events of Lunar The Silver Star. That was the crux of the story. A god becoming flesh, and destroying its perfection.


Also wasn't it Zophar who surmised that no new creation could be made without destroying the old? He wanted to create his own universe, but couldn't do it without destroying the previous. I think it was heavily implied that Althena created the Blue Star & Lunar.

I think the reason you want to take away from Althena's divinity is so you can place Lucia as the Goddess of the Blue Star? Yet, she is always referred to as the Princess...so doesn't that imply lower rank?

Isn't the definition of a Dragonmaster someone who wields the power of the Four Dragons? As long as Louie could do that what does it matter?

I'm pretty sure Lucia confirms all this in some sort of video where she is telling everyone the History of the Blue Star. I don't remember where it was in EB & EBC. But watch that, it'll help.

Aaron wrote:I think Althena's fact as the only good god was reinforced in the events of Lunar The Silver Star. That was the crux of the story. A god becoming flesh, and destroying its perfection.

You are one hundred percent wrong here. The story of TSS had nothing to do with "destroying perfection". Luna was just the latest of Althena's routine incarnations, and it wasn't until EB that it was said that she remained human. You may be thinking of the quite different context of SSSC, in which case you should say so.

Aaron wrote:I think the reason you want to take away from Althena's divinity is so you can place Lucia as the Goddess of the Blue Star? Yet, she is always referred to as the Princess...so doesn't that imply lower rank?

Do you actually read this forum? I am always arguing that Lucia is of lower rank and less power than Althena. You're thinking of Angelalex242, not me.

Aaron wrote:Isn't the definition of a Dragonmaster someone who wields the power of the Four Dragons? As long as Louie could do that what does it matter?

We don't know if there were dragons on the Blue Star, let alone whether they vouchsafed any of their power to another person.

Aaron wrote:I'm pretty sure Lucia confirms all this in some sort of video where she is telling everyone the History of the Blue Star. I don't remember where it was in EB & EBC. But watch that, it'll help.

It's pretty bizarre that you are telling me to do research as if I had not already mentioned information from that sequence several times -- you really think I'd be unfamiliar with it? -- when you can't even remember which game it was in (or what the first dragonmaster's name was, etc). It's in EBC and the transcription of the scene is in the official guide. Reread it yourself and tell me if anything I've said is contradicted by it.

Aside from the fact that the people of Lunar worship Althena as a goddess, I've never actually thought of her as one. To be sure, she has powers that go beyond those of normal humans, but at the same time, I don't see how it could be argued that she created the whole Blue Star when she doesn't even seem to have enough power to sustain and nourish the entire surface of the Silver Star.