So, what's with all the Metal topics?

Megalodon · Post by **Megalodon** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:39 pm

Metal is Metal, PERIOD. All a genre does is limit a band to a specific style, which is an outmoded idea. So much in metal has evolved. I hear people put Lamb Of God, Shadows Fall, and Killswitch Engage in the same category and they all have completely different styles in my opinion. It's like somebody that says all DM sounds the same. I never confuse Deicide with Malevolent Creation. I can easily tell the difference between the 2 bands even thoough they may have a similar structure for how the music they play came about.

Post by **Ozone** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:59 pm

DragonmasterAndy wrote:Those bands are all Metalcore(Where a lot of the stereotypes about crappy metal come from)..and Hatebreed are a nu-hardcore act. They're not Metal. Please, if you must label things, do it right.

I suggest not listening to any of those bands, but to each his own.(even though Shadows Fall has talent, they just need to use it in a better way)

Metal with real depth does not come from Metalcore.....

Not all mainstream Metal is crap. Hell, Iron Maiden are awesome. Megadeth have even gotten a bit of popularity these days. Generally, mainstream Metal is just crap, and a lot of it ISN'T actually Metal.....

I beg to disagree actually. Metalcore is still a subgroup of the Metal genre. Hardcore music is something that has been broken away from punk (to which metal owes a lot for giving them thrash bands like Tallica, Megadeth and Slayer) to be considered under the umbrella of Metal music. It's why Hatebreed is a mainstay at Ozzfest. I know I can only stand old Maiden from the Powerslave and Number of the Beast years. I think that new Maiden is awful, then again, so is the new Slayer. A lot of the best Metal acts out today are what you would label as Metalcore. For instance, Lamb of God is currently the best Metal band in the business whether it's songwriting-wise or talent-wise. It's just natural progression, and old school metal and thrash are not necessarely things that I think should be brought back just yet. I still can't stand Trivium's latest release, and whether you agree or not on the genre of it, I am telling you that it is old school thrash. The cheesiness of the lyrics just slays me. You really want true old school metal go with Black Label Society or Motorhead, forget Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and all of the old mainstays, they haven't been good in years (though the new Megadeth CD sounds promising). Pull your head on out and stop being a purest, eh? BTW, if you're going to get picky, 'deth is thrash and Maiden is power metal, which are still subgenres of Metal. This argument could go on for days.

Megalodon · Post by **Megalodon** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:59 am

The new Trivium album does suck and the lyrics are ridiculous.

Benevolent_Ghaleon · Post by **Benevolent_Ghaleon** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:02 pm

Megalodon wrote:The new Trivium album does suck and the lyrics are ridiculous.

ridiculous lyrics? reminds me of Symphony of Destruction.

Post by **Ozone** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:46 pm

Symphony of Destruction isn't the greatest thing ever written by any means, but it sure as hell beats the crap out of any of Trivium's latest lyrics.

I don't see the why so many people dislike metalcore just because it's metalcore. Bands like Shadows Fall, Lamb of God, Killswitch Engage and Unearth all know what they are doing on their instruments and they really write music that is a lot better than they get credit for. Granted bands like As I Lay Dying are just bad...., but still, don't condemn the whole genre. You also need to look at bands like Between The Buried And Me who are freaking amazing. There's so much talent in metalcore today, give it a shot.

exigence · Post by **exigence** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:07 am

Ozone wrote:Maiden is power metal.

id say brittish steel or new wave of brittish heavy metal, power metal is like blind guardian.

Post by **Ozone** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:53 am

Judas Priest is British Steel, Maiden is too epic to be anything but power metal. The topics typically have to do with battle or war, grandiose gestures and lyrics, and some pretty huge ass songs without any REALLY heavy sounds. Seems like power metal to me. Blind Guardian is power metal though.

DragonmasterAndy · Post by **DragonmasterAndy** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:12 am

Ozone wrote:Judas Priest is British Steel, Maiden is too epic to be anything but power metal. The topics typically have to do with battle or war, grandiose gestures and lyrics, and some pretty huge ass songs without any REALLY heavy sounds. Seems like power metal to me. Blind Guardian is power metal though.

Iron Maiden are straight up Heavy Metal. They came before Power Metal, and just because they have topics about things like that doesn't mean anything. People seem to have this idea that "OMG DRAGONS AND WITCHES AND STUFF" is Power Metal, when originally it had nothing to do with that. Some Thrash bands even talk about witches and dragons, and fantasy.... Maiden=HEAVY METAL. They surely influenced Power Metal BIG TIME, as they influenced a ton of stuff, but they themselves, are not Power Metal.

People still don't even know what Power Metal originated as.....

Power Metal is supposed to be closely related to Speed Metal. Agent Steel were a band that were more Power than Speed on Unstoppable Force, nowadays being Speed Metal purely. Oh yeah, and here's a really brain buster, RAGE were an early Power Metal band as well, then developed into more Speed Metal over time.

IT got so lost, that now people think all power metal is ONLY modern euro stuff.

Blind Guardian are awesome, but STARTED as a Speed Metal band. They started to blend speed/power by Tales From The Twilight World, and are now a modern power metal band.

DragonmasterAndy · Post by **DragonmasterAndy** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:22 am

Ozone wrote:
DragonmasterAndy wrote:Those bands are all Metalcore(Where a lot of the stereotypes about crappy metal come from)..and Hatebreed are a nu-hardcore act. They're not Metal. Please, if you must label things, do it right.

I suggest not listening to any of those bands, but to each his own.(even though Shadows Fall has talent, they just need to use it in a better way)

Metal with real depth does not come from Metalcore.....

Not all mainstream Metal is crap. Hell, Iron Maiden are awesome. Megadeth have even gotten a bit of popularity these days. Generally, mainstream Metal is just crap, and a lot of it ISN'T actually Metal.....

I beg to disagree actually. Metalcore is still a subgroup of the Metal genre. Hardcore music is something that has been broken away from punk (to which metal owes a lot for giving them thrash bands like Tallica, Megadeth and Slayer) to be considered under the umbrella of Metal music. It's why Hatebreed is a mainstay at Ozzfest. I know I can only stand old Maiden from the Powerslave and Number of the Beast years. I think that new Maiden is awful, then again, so is the new Slayer. A lot of the best Metal acts out today are what you would label as Metalcore. For instance, Lamb of God is currently the best Metal band in the business whether it's songwriting-wise or talent-wise. It's just natural progression, and old school metal and thrash are not necessarely things that I think should be brought back just yet. I still can't stand Trivium's latest release, and whether you agree or not on the genre of it, I am telling you that it is old school thrash. The cheesiness of the lyrics just slays me. You really want true old school metal go with Black Label Society or Motorhead, forget Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer and all of the old mainstays, they haven't been good in years (though the new Megadeth CD sounds promising). Pull your head on out and stop being a purest, eh? BTW, if you're going to get picky, 'deth is thrash and Maiden is power metal, which are still subgenres of Metal. This argument could go on for days.

I'm not being a purest. I simply don't like Metalcore, and it's HARDCORE with Metal influences(For the msot part, minus a few bands). BY THE WAY, I know Megadeth are Thrash. I know what Thrash is, don't ever try to school me on that. Lamb Of God are not the best in the business, and I had the displeasure of having to watch them live. They're sloppy, and now they're ripping off Pantera. Trivium's new album is NOT Thrash Metal. You can say it is until you get blue in the face. IT ISN'T. You're acting like you know more about my thoughts than you do. Just stop at that. Black Label Society are horribly overrated. I think Slayer are generally crap, and Metallica only released two good albums IMO.(And Justice For All, and Ride the Lightning.) Purists would call that BLASPHEMY. Megadeth's best stuff was Rust In Peace(IMO), and then theys tarted going downhill. I know that you've got as much pride as I do(You can say you don't, but you do), but I've been around people that were around when the genres formed. I actually know some of the musicians I listen to, and I pretty much already know I listen to a ton more Metal than you. I didn't want this to turn into a pissing contest, but you insisted.

Benevolent_Ghaleon · Post by **Benevolent_Ghaleon** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:38 pm

I thought Blind Guardian was a nerdy band, though, not metal. i enjoy The Bard Song, but am aware of the nerdiness.

Post by **Ozone** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:47 pm

Nah, I know I've got pride xD I know a lot of the artist that I listen to as well, and have a background in classical, jazz and blues, and at that, I'm just letting this go, because we're never going to see eye to eye on this.

The nerdiness is part of fun with Blind Guardian.

DragonmasterAndy · Post by **DragonmasterAndy** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:38 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I thought Blind Guardian was a nerdy band, though, not metal. i enjoy The Bard Song, but am aware of the nerdiness.

They've experimented more lately, but their early stuff is VERY Metal.

And Ozone- I'm sorry that went the way it did. On any other style of music, you could probably school me big time, as I don't know much about anything else. But for Metal, I know what I know VERY WELL. I don't know everything, nor do I claim to. The reason that I'm so strong on my points is the fact that I've been in the underground metal scene, and I'm pretty well educated on a good portion of it. That being said, I meant no disrespect to you.

Benevolent_Ghaleon · Post by **Benevolent_Ghaleon** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:57 pm

DragonmasterAndy wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I thought Blind Guardian was a nerdy band, though, not metal. i enjoy The Bard Song, but am aware of the nerdiness.
They've experimented more lately, but their early stuff is VERY Metal.

going from what metal to what The Bard Song isn't normal experimentation. That's experimentation on the level of a college girl.

exigence · Post by **exigence** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:11 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote: going from what metal to what The Bard Song isn't normal experimentation. That's experimentation on the level of a college girl.

thats a really good metaphor, if its ok i might borrow that from you. im sure i can use it in chemistry class.

Jenner · Post by **Jenner** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:25 pm

Post by **Ozone** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:20 am

Aaaaaaahahahahahahah xD

DragonmasterAndy · Post by **DragonmasterAndy** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:58 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:
DragonmasterAndy wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I thought Blind Guardian was a nerdy band, though, not metal. i enjoy The Bard Song, but am aware of the nerdiness.
They've experimented more lately, but their early stuff is VERY Metal.
going from what metal to what The Bard Song isn't normal experimentation. That's experimentation on the level of a college girl.

Dude, not really. That was when they experimented with the more folk oriented Power Metal later on. It's not like all of their songs are like the Bard's song. They usually have some acoustic and/or soft pieces on their albums along with the other stuff.

It was also a gradual change, it wasn't an overnight thing. Batallions Of Fear and Follow The Blind were Speed Metal classics, then Tales From The Twilight World was Power/Speed Metal, and then after that they shifted to more full on Power Metal.

Old Jericho · Post by **Old Jericho** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:41 am

D00D METLA R00LZ!!! I LVU SLIPKNOT AND MY CEMICHAL ROMANCE AND HAMMERFALL!!!
YEAH!!! METAL PWNS!!!

Yeah, I don't really like any of those bands.
But I do like metal, death metal, metalcore, unblack metal, power metal, symphonic metal, viking metal, thrash metal, trash metal, sludge metal, angry people metal, blowing things up metal, hardcore, post-hardcore, prog metal, prog rock, Johnny Cash, metal with people playing instruments, avant-gard metal, classic metal, doom metal, glam metal, gothic metal, groove metal, folk metal, redneck southern metalcore, speed metal, rapcore (wait, no I don't), funk metal, industrial metal, and Pink Floyd.

In the end, it's all metal (minus the prog rock, Johnny Cash, rapcore, and Pink Floyd).

Two hundred years from now, I doubt that music appreciation classes will be splitting hairs over the difference between power and Viking metal. But still, some metal (genres) is/are better than other metal (genres).

But I still like metal.

And I don't really think that I proved anything, but it was nice to just list all of the genres. Dr. Thorpe is funny, but I nearly cried when I read his article on Coheed and Cambria. He's going to the 4th circle of hell.

DragonmasterAndy · Post by **DragonmasterAndy** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:48 am

Dude, Glam "Metal", Post-Hardcore, and Hardcore are not Metal. Hardcore is a seperate genre derived from Punk Rock, and it's not Metal. I promise you.

Post by **Ozone** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:39 am

DragonmasterAndy wrote:Dude, Glam "Metal", Post-Hardcore, and Hardcore are not Metal. Hardcore is a seperate genre derived from Punk Rock, and it's not Metal. I promise you.

Meh, you could say that most of metal is derived from punk in some fashion, but you're right hardcore is technically not metal, though they are often grouped under the same category, I just call it loud music xD

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