From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general.

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jay_are
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From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general.

Postby jay_are » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:21 am

I can't believe I used to support iPhones and stuff. (tl:dr at the bottom)
Lunar is basically the game that made me get my first iDevice, and since then I've enjoyed lots of other games in it too.
Like all the Final Fantasy games and recently all the Dragon Quests. It is really really sweet to play these games here. Along with all those indie devs that make fun sma games

However, people looked at me like "Ew! Are you crazy? I'd NEVER pay for a phone app!! Even $1 is a ripoff!"
I'd look at them and laugh cause I thought with time, they'd find apps they like, and become more reasonable and accept that this is a good portable platform.
People would go all anti-mobile on me, but I'd resist and convince them that it's good.

But then, the problems come...

1. A developer can ruin a game if they want, and re-upload to the store ruined.
Let's say that SoMoGa updates Lunar into an app that will crash 10 seconds into the game, no exceptions.
If you didn't keep a copy of the previous version in your PC (and I don't think many people do that at all...), then if you've purchased this game, you've successfully given away your hard earned money to a corrupt dev.

And you might think "What are the chances of a developer ruining their app? They won't do that! That's counter productive in business!"
Well, a lot of my apps became unplayable at one point because somehow the developers tricked me into updating. They don't care!
iOS updates its system frequently, and sometimes a dev will feel the need to update their game to that system even though everything works fine,
but now they do it wrong, and the app becomes nothing but a trash that won't work. SoMoGa hasn't done this, thank goodness, but I'm scared, because it's happened often with others.

2. A developer can hide forever after they ruined the app, and never be obliged to fix it for you.
From this lesson, I learned to back up my apps. It's boring and tedious, but I backup most of my important apps from that point on.
With a special software, you can even backup your saved games! So if I want to delete an RPG cause it's taking too much space, but I want my hard earned saved game for future use cause I haven't finished it yet, I could copy it to a folder with a computer software.
Lunar is the ONLY game out of hundreds that still allows me to copy my saved games. But if Apple wanted, they could prohibit this too if someone finds a way to hack using that little freedom.

Except there's a new problem and the reason for this rant.
3. Apple prohibits backing up your own apps and their data.
See, even if I made a backup of Lunar, for example, I couldn't just send it to other people, because apps are locked to my account. So why prohibit my backup?
I CAN'T even do that now! Once I delete Lunar from my iPhone, I don't own anything. If this game ever gets pulled (and it did due to a "glitch" not long ago) then it's Game Over.
The same goes for the recent PSN releases. Everything's all perfect now, but what if Sony decides that these PSOne game should ONLY work on a PS4 in the future?
It can happen. They could drop PSP / PS3 / PSVita compatibility at any time. Unlikely any soon, but they can do it.

Now I have to resort to hacking and jailbreaking, but it won't feel good, cause that's not what I want to HAVE to do to be able to enjoy games in a legit way.
I might even have to erase everything in my phone before I can jailbreak... which will defeat the purpose.

tl:dr.
Phone gaming, or digital gaming at all, is not the future, I used to like it, but I really hope it dies and fast but it won't. (okay.jpg)
Even if they fix it, they could just break it again in the future.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Nonononoki » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:49 am

Well, I get where you are coming from. Digital gaming has its flaws (except for 3., which is just Apple. Have you considered switching to Android? Doesn't have Lunar though), but there are also problems in the non-digital area:

1. Lack of updates.
Not that it doesn't get any updates, but the overall amount is usually lower

2. Price
Digital goods tend to be cheaper (not always). There are also more bundles (e.g Steam, Humblebundle)

3. Not being physical.
You can't lose it. You can't damage it. You don't have to go to a store and buy it. You don't have to wait for it until it arrives when you order it online. Also: No plastic waste.

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Arlia
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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Arlia » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:13 am

Phones are for speaking on, not gaming. It surprises me you'd even bother to complain about not being able to play games comfortably on your phone. There's no controller, on a a miserably tiny screen. Why would they even bother making it perfect? Yeah, I get it; instant entertainment. But a simple puzzle game would suffice for being bored stupid in a waiting room, right?

Besides, it amazes me how people MUST be looking at a screen, wherever they are. I've almost gotten into two car accidents in the past week because people won't get off their phones. The less there is to do on a stupid phone the better, if you ask me.

On a beautiful day, I see chubby kids sitting motionless on a porch, staring at small screens. So sad. Good for you for saying no to phone gaming.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Alunissage » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:43 am

Arlia, I largey agree with you... but I remember being a kid with my nose always in a book, as my family put it. I don't know that it's THAT different to have a face at a screen, other than perhaps more mental involvement with reading text rather than viewing images (which is a lengthy argument I wouldn't even contemplate setting off). I don't think not having phones would turn kids who aren't running around into ones who would. (And chubbiness has damn little to do with exercise. Really. The sooner we stop defining a narrow range of natural body type as acceptable and everyone outside of it as unacceptable the better.)

Still, phones are definitely multitaskers these days, so gaming seems like just one more thing they can do.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby jay_are » Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:54 pm

I have an android tablet and an iphone, i have games on both.
The Android at least lets me install a memory stick in it, so i can backup a lot of my stuff, but it has its other set of problems too.
Also, its not just apple. Nintendo and Sony both have pulled games from the digital store, for legal reasons like expiring contracts... And thats a really crappy fact.
Another thing is with Sony, PSOne Classics for example...
MegaMan Legends came out, supported PSP at first, then dropped PSP days later.
I got the game and backed it up on my PC so im fine, but if i had been late, i'd be prohibited of playing the game on a PSP which is my preferred system for PsOne (cause its basically a ps1 hardware-wise, the Vita and PS3 are poor emulation)

With Nintendo, you buy a NES game on Wii U, and have to buy it again for Wii if you just happened to want it on a Wii you also have.
And you have to buy it a 3rd time to get it in your 3DS if its available there too!
Its up to you to buy it 3 times, but the fact they can do that when Sony lets you just buy a game once and play it everywhere...... Yeah.

And yeah i cant believe it either that i considered gaming on a phone comfortably.
It was always obvious that being a mobile phone was a trap.
B b b but how could I resist? Many of my favorite games ever have come to phones. I wanted to support. And give reviews. And enjoy whatever enhanced graphics or music it had.
It hurts that I have all the good intentions and had come out of my hard shell to accept the mobile future, only to be betrayed.

I just went to my iTunes and backed up ALL of my important games. 61 apps, 5 GB.
It still lets me do that. Only time will tell when it stops. I haven't updated that yet.
I'll still have to wait about a long time before a jailbreak is available and I can extract my RPG saved files.......... for now, my games are stuck inside my phone occupying space.
*long sigh*

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Alunissage » Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:25 pm

I think I first played Phoenix Wright (the first game, I mean) on my iphone, because it was available for cheap. That prompted me to play the rest of the series (on my DS), plus the iphone one has several languages and separate saves for each, so I started playing case 2 in Italian, case 5 in French, and maybe another one in Spanish. Now, of course, I also have it in Japanese, though I had to buy a Japanese 3DS for that. Yeah, I like having multiple languages of things. =) That doesn't have much to do with your original rant, but I guess I'm saying that I like having the phone version to taste games I'd like to play on other systems.

Oh, and if you like graphic novels, consider checking out Midnight Star and Midnight Rises. These are a game and graphic novel developed from the ground up to be played/read on mobile devices, and choices made in one affect the other -- but you don't have to read/play both of them to enjoy it. I confess I haven't gotten to them yet myself but I follow the blog of the writer and he wrote about it a fair bit. I mention this because they really were intended to be mobile-device works, not works that were ported to iOS.

Also, while I'd rather play SSSC on a console, I love being able to take screenshots easily on my phone. Thanks, SoMoGa.

It sounds to me like your beef is with developers and hardware companies rather than with the general idea of phone as console. (After all, phones are getting bigger again, she says as she eyes the ludicrously large 6+ nearby, and compare that to a GBA and other handhelds...) My main issue with the phone is that for many things I just don't like using my finger as a stylus. My fingers are neither transparent nor skinny, and the callus I've developed from knitting sometimes makes the touch sensitivity a little lacking, so I hit things I don't want to hit. I'd be happier with a stylus involved. But the issue of apps being 'improved' out of usability isn't a phone thing, it's a download thing. Compare Kindle and Amazon yanking books off of it...! And yet ebooks are a really great thing for a great many readers. And yes, I've read books on my phone, too, which I didn't think I would like but ultimately found it workable.

This isn't terribly coherent, sorry. Need breakfast.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby jay_are » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:40 am

Alunissage wrote:and maybe another one in Spanish
Holy! You know that many languages?
I speak English and Spanish. And I want to learn Japanese.

Alunissage wrote:but I guess I'm saying that I like having the phone version to taste games I'd like to play on other systems
That's exactly my reasoning. If I like a game enough, I like to replay it. In the 90s, there were rarely ever more than 1 version of a game, today, we have many versions of the classics. (I never would have dreamed Lunar 1 could have gotten that many re-releases, and I still want moar). So it's a lot of fun if the next time I replay a game, it's on a different platform, and it has differences, like music and graphics, or even gameplay.

Alunissage wrote:though I had to buy a Japanese 3DS for that.
This sucks. The DS is region free, and the PS4 and Vita are both region free! I don't understand the why the 3DS and WiiU must be region locked

Alunissage wrote:That doesn't have much to do with your original rant
I'm happy you got motivated to talk about more things than just the topic ^.^ it's all relevant in a way anyway.

Alunissage wrote:Also, while I'd rather play SSSC on a console, I love being able to take screenshots easily on my phone. Thanks, SoMoGa.
Exactly. And bringing it on the go and show someone something from the game if someone brings it up.
Instead of "Oh I'll show you when I get home". Or "Oh I found it on youtube through my phone but there's an obnoxious guy playing the game and he comments every little thing." Even if PSP and PS Vita are portable, you won't always have that with you, but you do always have your phone with you.

Alunissage wrote:It sounds to me like your beef is with developers and hardware companies rather than with the general idea of phone as console.
Exactly. A phone as a console is a lot more appealing than having to buy an expensive handheld that will likely not have as many games (I'm looking at you, PS Vita)
The 3DS is the best, but the circle pad broke from Super Smashing :/ ............ and i'm a careful person.

Alunissage wrote: I just don't like using my finger as a stylus. My fingers are neither transparent nor skinny
...that too. Well, there IS a stylus, and it's quite nice to use! It has a soft ball of air on one end, thats what you use to touch the screen, and it's thin, and feels very effective.

And yeah my hate is not with the fact that I can't have a game physically in my hand or that it may take long to download or occupy space... it would be my favorite handheld way to play games if:
1. Every game supported controller.
2. You could choose what version works best on your device.
3. You could keep your progress in a memory stick or something.
4. You could use a cable to display on TVs.

Just imagine your phone, sitting next to the TV connected to it by a cable, while you sit on the couch with a controller.
And feeling safe because no updates will ruin it forever and you are free to make as many save files as you want, cause you'll never lose it. The PSP is the closest thing to this, but... it's dead basically.

The hate is with how much they want to have control over the user to a point that a legitimate customer suffers, where a pirate has the benefits. With Apple products, I don't trust Apple or any developer anymore. SoMoGa are the only ones I trust right now :lol: and they're not likely to do anything else with Lunar on phones.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Alunissage » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:56 am

See, I see the flip side... they allow anyone to develop for it and as a result there are zillions of things to do. I think that's really cool. I felt the same way with WiiWare, but on phones it's turned up to 11. It's just really awesome that groups or even individuals who aren't EA-sized or have Squaresoft budgets can make games without needing $20K devkits from console manufacturers. But I guess with all that largesse comes the occasional bad apple of a developer that won't or can't keep everything workable, and that combines badly with issues with backups and the like. If we could easily revert to earlier versions it wouldn't be so much of an issue.

I remember a while back a conversation here in which Shiva and I and I think Kizyr concluded that Lunar Walking School might work well as a phone game. Dunno what it would take to make that happen though.

Oh, and I'm only fluent in English, sadly. But at various times I've taken classes in all of the languages I mentioned (though obviously Japanese is the weakest since I can't even easily look up vocabulary!) and with a game I already know in English it's kind of fun to see how much I can pick out in other languages. Though it was kid of weird to have Phoenix always referring to "Capo!" (Chief, which is what he calls Mia), and to have the alternate names in French (Miles Edgeworth = Benjamin Hunter, and he just doesn't seem like a Benjamin to me). I have European versions of a few games and have played one or more Zelda games in French, just for fun.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Arlia » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:36 am

(And chubbiness has damn little to do with exercise. Really. The sooner we stop defining a narrow range of natural body type as acceptable and everyone outside of it as unacceptable the better.)


I said "chubby" to be polite. I was referring to the morbidly obese children that need to get involved in some kind of cardio before it gets further out of hand than it already is.
Source: I was a chubby kid that ate only crap, and didn't exercise. When I was finally smart enough to eat better and realized the value of working out, I got much better. Still had time for games. Adult bodies are much different then children's, and many adults end up being "chubby" due to metabolism, age, and what have you, but they are still healthy adults.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Alunissage » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:08 am

Sure, but one datapoint, however personal, is not enough to generalize from. Fat people who get a lot of exercise are fat people who get a lot of exercise. Exercise can make you healthier, but healthier and skinnier are not synonymous. (And if it's not obvious, I'm using "fat" as strictly descriptive there, with no pejorative intention.)

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Arlia » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:16 am

Well, being obese is, medically, not a good thing. It's... kind of impossible to be "morbidly obese" and be healthy. Skinny doesn't equal healthy, of course not. Someone suffering from, say, anorexia could appear only a little skinnier than average, but if you startle them, they could fall over dead, because their hearts are so weak. I'm not going to call that healthy.
I don't want people to be unhealthy. That wouldn't be good.
And that's where it ends.

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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby Zero » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:30 am

I've never played a game on my phone and I can't say I have any desire to. I'm happy with my game consoles and handhelds, and when I get bored between games on those I just play an old favorite on an older system or something. I don't really get the appeal of phone gaming. I'd rather just get on twitter or instagram.
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Re: From now on, I hate Apple. And digital gaming in general

Postby brit » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:15 pm

Djinn Xpert wrote:I've never played a game on my phone and I can't say I have any desire to. I'm happy with my game consoles and handhelds, and when I get bored between games on those I just play an old favorite on an older system or something. I don't really get the appeal of phone gaming. I'd rather just get on twitter or instagram.


I feel the same. Though I do have a few casual puzzle games for when I'm really bored on the Train. I never like to carry my handhelds around here in the city. ^^ I really hope developers realize that phone games are just fads and will die out. :/
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