Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

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Who is your least favorite Character in Lunar, and why?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:47 am

Althena
0
No votes
Alex
0
No votes
Nall
0
No votes
Quark
0
No votes
Luna
0
No votes
Ramus
0
No votes
Kyle
0
No votes
Jessica
0
No votes
Nash
4
21%
Mia
0
No votes
Tempest
1
5%
Fresca
0
No votes
Xenobia
0
No votes
Royce
4
21%
Phacia
0
No votes
Laike/Dyne
0
No votes
Lemia
0
No votes
Ghaleon/Magic Emperor
0
No votes
Dragonmaster Zoc
0
No votes
Dross
0
No votes
Mel
0
No votes
Hiro
0
No votes
Ruby
0
No votes
Gwyn
0
No votes
Lucia
1
5%
Ronfar
0
No votes
Leo
0
No votes
Lemia
0
No votes
Jean
0
No votes
Nall (Lunar 2)
0
No votes
Dragonmaster Ghaleon
0
No votes
Mauri
0
No votes
Lunn
4
21%
Borgan
3
16%
Fake Althena
1
5%
Zophar
0
No votes
Star Dragon
1
5%
Blue Dragon
0
No votes
Black Dragon
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19
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Old_School
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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Old_School » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:34 am

There aren't really any Lunar characters I dislike, but I voted for Lunn because I liked him the least. He just wasn't as unique or interesting as most of the other characters. I'm a martial arts guy....and I'm eeeeviiilllll! Oh, wait a minute, now I'm good again.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby ShindoW » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:28 pm

I picked Tempest. He never had much characterization, IMO. I think the fact that he and Fresca looked so much like Alex and Luna didn't help either. Lunn was my second choice, because he's kinda there. The only really cool part about him is his evilness in the flashbacks with Jean and the fact Jean doesn't suck after you get her Blue Dragon skills.
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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Mystere » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:33 pm

Old_School wrote:There aren't really any Lunar characters I dislike, but I voted for...


Seconded. When it's your favorite series, it becomes hard to choose because I have fond memories of them all... If I have to pick then I say Ant, Rick, and Kule... Oh wait, just Lunar 1 or 2 ? Then Nash because he was such a pansy of a sell-out in TSS for the Sega CD, and his double-cross wasn't given as much depth in that version as it had in the subsequent remakes...

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby burn321 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:04 am

Borgon was seriously lame, he had no real reason or motivation for all the crap he did! He also didn't seem like a very dedicated or even STRONG boss. At least Lunn was a little tough. Pluss... Borgon was CREEPY, his voice, the way he said things, the things he said, his obsession with Lemina's mom *shudders* blech
"Lucia, I know you're not feeling very well......but I need to make sure that we're straight about something. Hiro is helping you out 'cause he's a nice guy, but he's ALL mine. Got that?"- Ruby

"What...what do you mean by that? I don't understand." - Lucia

"I mean you shouldn't get too close to Hiro, because you'd be setting yourself up for a fall." - Ruby

"Now I understand. You mean that Hiro tends to trip people who get too close. I will remember to walk several paces behind him in the future." - Lucia

"No, no, no! That's not what I meant! You're too dense to be a threat to me...let's just go!" - Ruby

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Kizyr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:47 pm

burn321 wrote:Borgon was seriously lame, he had no real reason or motivation for all the crap he did! He also didn't seem like a very dedicated or even STRONG boss. At least Lunn was a little tough. Pluss... Borgon was CREEPY, his voice, the way he said things, the things he said, his obsession with Lemina's mom *shudders* blech

You played just the PSX remake, right? I ask because Borgan's difficulty in the original Sega CD version was legendary (Borgan and Zophar were the two hardest bosses of the game). Lunn by comparison was easy once you showed him the power of dance. Really his toned-down difficulty was one of the most disappointing things about the remake (although Zophar was tougher). KF

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby The Greatest Story » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:04 am

zophar..... why?

because that guy was trying to destroy the planet. that's why.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Sonic# » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:50 pm

It's been three years, and I still don't like Royce. (I've been replaying the game recently, though I've been slowed down immensely by being busy.)
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby The Greatest Story » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:10 pm

thats pretty sweet - ill be doing the same when im back from my travels. keep me updated.

im more a lunar 2 buff, looks like ill really have to take in royce this go around... i remember she was fairly evil.

zophar.. however... is so evil that he commends you for ripping off the audio straight from the disk. serious business.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby jay_are » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:29 pm

I'm gonna have to pick Dragonmaster Zoc.

It would have been more believable if it was a monster alone that had been attacking the village.
Or, if it must be a person riding a monster, then the monster should have looked more like a dragon than a frog. Actually a crocodile monster would fit better.
I remember looking at this green dragon in Dragon Quest, and thinking it was a crocodile.
The giant frog was still cool, so I would keep that boss somewhere around there alone...
Zoc's dialogue was lame too. There's no way he wouldn't have known the real colors of the dragons.
And if it was all a set-up to delay Alex, then it's just a lame set-up. I kinda wanted more adventurous reasons to have to leave Vane and travel all those small villages and then the island!
Actually Zoc's name kinda sounds like Sock.

As for Nash, Royce, Lunn, Borgan, Zophar, Star Dragon...
I like what they all do, even if some of their personalities and motivations aren't that deep.
They all have great potential.
For example Borgan and his Neo Vane, I thought that was really cool! A greedy old huge fat man exploiting the people for his own luxury castle is something that fits perfectly in Lunar 2's world because an apocalypses is about to happen, so you expect dark messed up things.
As for he turning out how he did, well yeah that's shallow and disappointing... but it was still a little funny! The story could easily be improved to give him a better motivation and a better end to that chapter. So, Borgan can be kept in Lunar 2.

I don't remember much of the story behind the Star Dragon, but it really helped that the Sega CD had a special theme for his dungeon. (Thank you, USA version!)
If only for that song, I loved the Star Dragon! He doesn't have to be one of the 4 Dragon's of Althena (or 5 in this case?) he could be just the Dragon that's guarding something important... like the portal in the next room maybe? I didn't seem to expect much more than that. But he has potential for a deep story too.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Sonic# » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:28 pm

I agree that Zoc as a villain is kind of lame. I think that's partly the point of it - let me explain what I mean.

It's a preface of one of the key tensions of the first game: whether the power of Althena should rest with a central authority (Ghaleon's version of the dragonmaster or the goddess) or whether people can be trusted with it. The mere ability of someone to pose as an imposter dragonmaster signals the need for protection. Most people have never seen a dragon.[1] It is plausible that anyone with sufficient strength could claim that a shape is a dragon. Does that protection necessitate control? Ghaleon thinks so - Alex does not. Jessica is the voice of practicality in these scenes, saying what the villagers of Lann might be afraid to say - a Dragonmaster wouldn't act like this, and they have the power to challenge him.

That conviction comes through early here, and it persists when Ghaleon claims his own mastery of the dragons through control and enslavement to the Grindery. Zoc's lameness makes Ghaleon's mastery that much more daunting.

[1] As a side note, it's plausible (if, yes, very silly) that Zoc wouldn't know the colors of the dragons. You're assuming that the dragons are universally known, but Alex may only know their colors because his village is next to the white dragon. Lann is a backwater, and not geographically near any dragon. (The Red Dragon may be the closest, though it's in a different zone.) Even if his lack of knowledge is goofy, it shows the kind of ignorance that both Jessica and Ghaleon are fighting.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:26 am

Sonic#, I love your analyses. ^_^ It brought something else to mind -- the Water Dragon that Dross sics on the party. I think that's what it's actually called in the US games (seems to me it had a name in Japanese). It's more dragonlike than the Frog-Lizard, but Dross doesn't try to claim it's one of the Dragons. Probably because of its location, but also because it wouldn't occur to him, living in the biggest city in the world. He's perfectly capable of other deceit, but wouldn't try that.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby jay_are » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:03 am

Sonic# wrote:Jessica is the voice of practicality in these scenes

You know, everything that happens around Dragonmaster Zoc is still good. So he is so lame, that even his own chapter is better than him!
I'm starting to wonder what happens to him after that though. I can't remember anything after you beat him (Shameful cause I've played this game enough times)
I think in the Sega CD version you punish him? I know you can punish Dross, but can you punish this guy too?
I also know Dross reappears later in the Sega CD version.

Alunissage wrote:the Water Dragon that Dross sics on the party.

You see?? Dross could have had the frog instead. They should switch... but wait...
then that would defeat the point of Zoc being fake and lame and would actually make him cool.
But wouldn't it be cool if the player was actually scared of an impostor Dragonmaster? Instead of just knowing about the comical side of things? And only finding out in the end?
WAIT a minute. Now that I really think about it... The battle with Zoc was different in the Sega CD!

http://lunar-net.com/tss/screens/2/images/LUNAR_105.jpg

He had 4 dragon-like monsters...

Maybe, just maybe, this is one of the changes why people disliked the remake.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Sonic# » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:15 pm

Thanks Alunissage! And I hadn't even considered the "Water Dragon." It is kind of an odd name, especially since our main experience with dragons up to that point is Quark. There are the four dragons, but there's no notion that they have to be the only dragons. (This is conveniently bookended by the Star Dragon.)

Even with a dragon, it's tough to take seriously a man named "Dross."

Now that I really think about it... The battle with Zoc was different in the Sega CD!


Good call! Those look more like dragons. I think their sprites encourage a sense of disbelief though - Alex has seen a dragon. Dragons are huge. These are little spindly lizards. It's kind of petty. Still, it's cooler than a guy flinging fireballs astride a frog.

And yeah, I don't remember what happens to Zoc. I think in SSSC he just promises to be good and then stays on the island. One point that consulting the screenshots helps with - Zoc definitely thought in SSSC that his Frog Lizard was a dragon, even though he knew he was an imposter. I think he's more ignorant in the remake -
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:55 pm

Yeah, Zoc is less sympathetic (to the extent he IS sympathetic... I feel a little sorry for him in SSSC when he loses his pet) in TSS. IIRC he's more outright malicious; he knows he's a fake, he just happens to have some fire magic ability (I think fireballs are mentioned, anyway) that he can use to extort things from the Lann villagers. He's also hidden in a cave in TSS, and actually is a little bit hard to find.

I had intended to mention that he throws four monsters at the party, but couldn't remember what they were.

I'm trying to remember now if you can return to the island in TSS. I think so. I found it pretty irritating that you can't in the remake; I don't really approve of one-shot dungeons, especially if they have useful treasures in them. Legend was worse for this, though.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby ZeroVortex » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:10 pm

i hate borgan. ugly as hell horny fatass who got drunk on power just like lunn. i miss hell-mel he was awesome.

loved his daughter jessica. she was cute as hell

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:16 pm

Lunn's voice acting was painful to listen to. Stereotypical gruff martial arts master accent....done badly. I also don't like that Borgan isn't killed or at least exiled. His offenses go far beyond "Well did you learn your lesson?". Sometimes Miria seems retarded or bordering on senile.

As much as I hate Nash, he's fine as a character. I hate him because I'm supposed to and they pulled that off so well that his later redemption isn't so easy to accept. I love Lunar 2 but it's the only one of the two that has characters I have griped about from a quality standpoint. I can see why people generally favor 1 over 2.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:33 pm

Imagine the disconnect if WD had kept Lunn's Japanese name, which is Linus. I've wondered if the gruffness is supposed to reflect disguising his voice for his two identities.

And yeah, it's kind of hard to figure Miria's tolerance and perhaps even liking for Borgan. Unless she's supposed to be so shallow that all those gifts for her we see in her room really did win her heart. But maybe it's more that Borgan's repulsiveness was overdone.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Leo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:18 am

It's no wonder Vane's revival endeavor wasn't going well. With Miria's excessive forgiveness and excuse making, it isn't surprising that Lemina threw away her mother's passive nature and became pushy in her attempts to help so much that it made her obnoxious and gave her a false air of greediness.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby burn321 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:45 am

Kizyr wrote:
burn321 wrote:Borgon was seriously lame, he had no real reason or motivation for all the crap he did! He also didn't seem like a very dedicated or even STRONG boss. At least Lunn was a little tough. Pluss... Borgon was CREEPY, his voice, the way he said things, the things he said, his obsession with Lemina's mom *shudders* blech

You played just the PSX remake, right? I ask because Borgan's difficulty in the original Sega CD version was legendary (Borgan and Zophar were the two hardest bosses of the game). Lunn by comparison was easy once you showed him the power of dance. Really his toned-down difficulty was one of the most disappointing things about the remake (although Zophar was tougher). KF


Yeah Eternal Blue Continued, PSX was the only platform I knew it came on I got the game from my madre aha. Even if he was a difficult boss in the Sega version, the character still had no motivation for being evil. Mauri was tainted by Zophar's blood, Lunn was a jackass to begin with, the Fake Althena was vein and weak, Ghaleon (I love him but he was evil) was the Magic Emperor so duh there, Borgon was just... nothing. He had no motivation aside from a lust for power which he had achieved even before Zophar. He was just an unexplained character, I don't know I just couldn't find a scrape of respect for him, he was rape-y, and unsympathetic, and cowardly and I hated him
"Lucia, I know you're not feeling very well......but I need to make sure that we're straight about something. Hiro is helping you out 'cause he's a nice guy, but he's ALL mine. Got that?"- Ruby

"What...what do you mean by that? I don't understand." - Lucia

"I mean you shouldn't get too close to Hiro, because you'd be setting yourself up for a fall." - Ruby

"Now I understand. You mean that Hiro tends to trip people who get too close. I will remember to walk several paces behind him in the future." - Lucia

"No, no, no! That's not what I meant! You're too dense to be a threat to me...let's just go!" - Ruby

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Leo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:24 am

LOOK at Borgan. That's all one really needs to do to understand how he could turn out to be the douchebag he is. In a world in which magic is real, a guy that looks and behaves like him would be a social outcast until he gained the fear of others, which he'd confuse with respect. If I had to be Borgan, I'd be lashing out too. :lol:


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