Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

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Who is your least favorite Character in Lunar, and why?

Poll ended at Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:47 am

Althena
0
No votes
Alex
0
No votes
Nall
0
No votes
Quark
0
No votes
Luna
0
No votes
Ramus
0
No votes
Kyle
0
No votes
Jessica
0
No votes
Nash
4
21%
Mia
0
No votes
Tempest
1
5%
Fresca
0
No votes
Xenobia
0
No votes
Royce
4
21%
Phacia
0
No votes
Laike/Dyne
0
No votes
Lemia
0
No votes
Ghaleon/Magic Emperor
0
No votes
Dragonmaster Zoc
0
No votes
Dross
0
No votes
Mel
0
No votes
Hiro
0
No votes
Ruby
0
No votes
Gwyn
0
No votes
Lucia
1
5%
Ronfar
0
No votes
Leo
0
No votes
Lemia
0
No votes
Jean
0
No votes
Nall (Lunar 2)
0
No votes
Dragonmaster Ghaleon
0
No votes
Mauri
0
No votes
Lunn
4
21%
Borgan
3
16%
Fake Althena
1
5%
Zophar
0
No votes
Star Dragon
1
5%
Blue Dragon
0
No votes
Black Dragon
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19
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Alunissage
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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:21 pm

Leoriosan wrote:Pretty much all the attempts to make Kyle look cool and heroic came off as forced. It doesn't help that he literally feels tacked onto the story as a love interest for Jessica, moreso in the Sega CD version. I suppose we're supposed to think he's cool and funny, but I've always found him to be really obnoxious and out-of-place with the rest of the party. He doesn't have any adult figures he looks up to like the rest of the group.

Eh, he respects Mel in TSS, and it's mutual -- Mel placed him in charge of the Nanza barrier because he trusted Kyle. (Why Mel, governor of Meribia, would have an interest in access to the rest of the continent is unclear.) That was one of several personality and backstory changes I disliked in the remake. It kind of fit with their personalities -- Kyle's a jumped-up bandit, Mel's a jumped-up pirate. I'd be surprised if TSS Mel didn't already have an eye on Kyle as a potential match for Jessica, given that he doesn't want "wimpy accountant types" for her.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby ShugoHanasaki » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:01 pm

"Lunn had some mental issues" lol!
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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby AkagisWhiteComet » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:28 pm

I'm sure I'll be corrected on this but I'm pretty sure that in the novel (right?) for LUNAR TSS Kyle was given a more prominent role and appears to the 'party' much earlier on. I want to say he was some sort of pirate, which would reinforce Mel's acceptance of him and vise versa as they would have came up from a similar background.

Kyle never had much of a development character-wise in the story in seemingly any of it's iterations which is really unfortunate. I think the developers learned their lesson with EB, but considering how many remakes TSS went through I never really understood that Kyle's story wasn't elaborated on when other characters with a seemingly much smaller role or engagement were either expanded upon or revamped. It also really relegates his character to a mere "muscle" type.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:00 am

I should be able to tell you about his role in the novel, but I can't... I read some of it in translation and the style got to me a bit and I had to stop. (I think it's the original writing, not the translation, that got to me; I doubt the translator put in adjectives that weren't there.)

I know there's a bit more about Kyle in some sources. Pretty sure there's a bit of a flashback in Lunar Legend where Kyle and Jessica are at a dock as kids and Kyle says he'll hurt anyone who makes her cry, or words to that effect. And I know I read some backstory somewhere about kid-Jessica sneaking out and pretending to be a boy and becoming friends or rivals with Kyle. One night Kyle snuck into the mansion and was surprised to find his friend was there. I think he also peed on Mel on that trip... drat, where is all this? The novel? An interview?

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Sonic# » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:04 pm

^ I really hope there's a source for that. Like, peeing on Mel? Is that juvenile writing or a fairly plausible thing for a rascal kid to do?

AkagisWhiteComet wrote:
Kyle never had much of a development character-wise in the story in seemingly any of it's iterations which is really unfortunate.


My own disclaimer: as an English teacher and scholar, I spend a lot of time paying attention to characters who are own fleshed out in bits and pieces and arguing how they're more nuanced than a lot of readers notice.

In short, I think Kyle gets a fair amount of development. A lot of this is going from memories of my previous playthrough of SSSC. I am usually struck by several things:

1. Kyle is described in a few ways before the party meets him. He may be mentioned in Meribia. Going all across the Nanza Fort searching for drunk-Kyle involves a lot of dialogue about how Kyle is as a leader and his relationship to Jessica. My general impression from that dialogue is that Kyle is a fair and respected leader who sometimes drinks too much and needs to figure out how to treat Jessica better.

2. Kyle's crossdressing scene makes him out to be inventive and charismatic, with a flair for spectacle. This is how he leads. Mentally I juxtapose that scene (imitating a woman who is treated poorly) with what women going through the Nanza Pass say about Kyle: he keeps them safe.

3. Once Kyle is recruited, the next town further develops Kyle as a kind of benevolent pirate or thief: he helps the party navigate Reza. Without him, going through the Thieves' Guild wouldn't have been easy. (Every other character is relatively more sheltered than Kyle.) It is clear he has a large network of friends and contacts and a certain amount of history, which he can use to figure out how to get the Dragon Wings back.

4. Plaster Mel has already been mentioned in-thread as somewhat contrived or hammy. That said, it does further establish how his immediate instinct is to protect Jessica. It also suggested to me that at least some of his more playful comments are a kind of spectacle or shell, a protective layer (this is going to be cheesy: like the plaster or stone) because it's hard to be vulnerable emotionally:

Image

5. To extend that reading just a bit, Kyle's treasure for Damon is a crow bar that can get into any vault. That's inventive in a material way: access to closed-off spaces is better than depicting any individual treasure. Of course that ends up being insufficient, but it shows that Kyle thinks like a thief: access through security is more important than merely imagining wealth or treasure. That also seems to align with how he conducts himself: controlling access to his more vulnerable side is necessary to be the strong man, the well-regarded thief, or (at least so he has thought) someone Jessica wants. That's how Kyle has to learn and grow - going beyond pranks and breaking into things to learn how to be (a) a leader and (b) a good person to his friends.

6. This is what he's working through when he sings: he has to give an excuse for why he's a good singer. It can't just be that he's bad. It has to be something macho, active, and hard:

Image

Admittedly, Jessica doesn't take it well either.

Image

Social and emotional walls aren't broken down in an instant, after all:

Image

7. I could go on, but that's what I see Kyle going between throughout the story, and scenes often touch on that dynamic (being the thief/leader/warrior who brushes off trouble; being open to himself and the people around him). Lots of scenes suggest that performativity, like when he seems to be getting drunk with an official in Meryod and suddenly switches gears, showing that all of that was a performance to get what he wants:

Image

And that face change!
Image

I'd go as far as to say that Kyle seems like he has less development because he's so often putting on a show, and his interesting side (as a character) comes in the moments when that breaks.
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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Alunissage » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:42 am

Wow, I've forgotten a lot of moments from SSSC. Probably because every time I start to replay it I end up stopping somewhere in the first third, like Lann.

He's definitely highly respected as a leader in TSS. And trainer, too!

"OUR LEADER'S NAME IS KYLE.
HE'S A BIT OLDER THAN YOU,
AND REALLY STRONG. HE'S A
GOOD GUY ALL AROUND!"

"EVEN THOUGH KYLE IS STILL
YOUNG,...
MASTER MEL ENTRUSTED THIS
REGION TO HIM. IT'S A VERY
IMPORTANT JOB!"

"THE GUYS HERE ALL USED TO
BE HARDCORE THIEVES, BUT
KYLE BROUGHT THEM HERE AND
SHAPED THEM UP TO BE
PROTECTORS OF THE BARRIER!"

"OH BOSS! IT'S GOOD TO HAVE
YOU BACK HERE IN NANZA!
THEY SAY GHALEON'S GOING TO
ATTACK US ANY DAY! YOU'VE
GOT TO PROTECT US!"
(Kyle responds:)
"WHAT KIND OF WIMPS ARE YOU?
IF YOU REMEMBER ALL THAT I
TAUGHT YOU, YOU'LL BE FINE! "

"BOSS, YOU'VE GOT TO STAY
HERE AND HELP US DEFEND
NANZA AGAINST GHALEON!"
(Kyle's response:)
"I'VE TRAINED YOU FOR YEARS,
SO I KNOW YOU'RE CAPABLE
OF DEFENDING NANZA ALONE! "

And I should have pasted this bit in my reply above that bumped this thread, about Kyle respecting Mel.
"WHEN KYLE HEARD THAT MASTER
MEL WAS TURNED TO STONE, HE
WENT SOMEWHERE TO BE ALONE.
HE REALLY LOOKED UP TO
MASTER MEL. DID YOU KNOW MEL
GAVE HIM THIS ASSIGNMENT? "

He doesn't have a connection to Reza in TSS, but it turns out that the thief that robbed them is one of Kyle's men:
"OH BOSS! I'M SORRY FOR ALL
THE TROUBLE I CAUSED YOU
IN REZA...BELIEVE ME!
IT WAS A MIXUP! I DIDN'T
KNOW IT WAS YOU THAT I
WAS RIPPING OFF! "

There's even a kid who wants to be like him. I don't remember if this is also the case in SSSC.
"SON, YOU CAN'T SAY YOU'LL
BE A THIEF!
YOU SEE, NOT ALL THIEVES
ARE AS KINDHEARTED AS
KYLE."

Oh, and back to my other point...whether or not Mel thinks Kyle and Jessica are a good match, this guy does:
"THE OTHER DAY, A CHILDHOOD
FRIEND OF OUR LEADER'S CAME
TO VISIT.
SHE WAS KIND OF A TOMBOY,
BUT WOW! WAS SHE GORGEOUS!
I THINK SHE AND KYLE LOOK
GOOD TOGETHER! "

"A PRETTY TOMBOY CAME TO
VISIT KYLE THE OTHER
DAY...
I WISH SHE HAD STAYED. SHE
WAS A GOOD INFLUENCE ON HIM! "

"HEY!
YOU'RE THE GIRL THAT
VISITED KYLE THE OTHER DAY!
HAVE YOU COME BACK TO SEE
KYLE AGAIN? <WINK>"

"I WONDER IF OUR LEADER,
KYLE, IS REALLY INTERESTED
IN JESSICA,...
OR IF HE'S JUST TOYING
WITH HER MIND? "

"SAY BOSS! HAVE YOU LOST
INTEREST IN JESSICA,
ALREADY?
ON TO GREENER
PASTURES, HMMM?"
(Kyle's response:)
"SHUT UP, YOU BRAINLESS
DUNG-BEETLE! "

"SO KYLE, HAVE YOU PUT
ANOTHER NOTCH ON YOUR
MONSTER-SLAYING POST YET?"
(Kyle's response:)
"SHUT UP, YOU OOZING PUSTULE!
THERE'S A LADY PRESENT! "

Although I don't think you can get him in your party until you already have Mia, so she could be the lady that he's referring to.

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Re: Least favorite Lunar 1 or Lunar 2 character

Postby Kizyr » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:52 am

AkagisWhiteComet wrote:I'm sure I'll be corrected on this but I'm pretty sure that in the novel (right?) for LUNAR TSS Kyle was given a more prominent role and appears to the 'party' much earlier on. I want to say he was some sort of pirate, which would reinforce Mel's acceptance of him and vise versa as they would have came up from a similar background.

Only technical thing I'll say is that the novel is really based more on SSS, not TSS, but it's still such a radical story departure that is pretty different from both. Anyway, in the novels, (a) Kyle is a pirate, and (b) Mel has wanted posters put out for him.

From my summaries/translations:
http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/sss1.php wrote:Nash notices that the "monster" is man-made by indicating what appear to be carvings on the side. So it's a ship, but it runs without wind power, and magic power is strangely absent from this area right now. Nash them remembers: this is the Dragon Steamship Reguiss! With the famed pirate on board—

[237] "Ha ha ha ha!" calls out a voice, as a man about three or four years older than Alex jumps down from the ship onto the deck of Jessica's yacht. He introduces himself as Kyle, the Pirate of Justice. Alex introduces himself, and Nash is scared. Kyle continues: his usual demand is for all the money on hand, but he'll settle for just half their silver for the time being.

http://www.lunar-net.com/novels/sss1.php wrote:"Attention:
The Pirate Kyle. Wanted for kidnapping women and plundering goods. We shall protect the city from enemies of peace like the Pirate Kyle! Be on the lookout for the Pirate Kyle on the streets at night! If you have any information regarding the Pirate Kyle, contact the Meribian Navy at once.
- Mel de Alkirk"


Alunissage wrote:I should be able to tell you about his role in the novel, but I can't... I read some of it in translation and the style got to me a bit and I had to stop. (I think it's the original writing, not the translation, that got to me; I doubt the translator put in adjectives that weren't there.)

No it's probably both. The translator did, in fact, put in a *lot* of extra adjectives and descriptions that were nowhere in the original novel. The original novel, meanwhile, had very... basic writing -- it's a "light novel" after all and so it's literally designed to be accessible to people aged 12+. I say this despite the fact that I do in fact really like the novels.

The translation though did get on my nerves a little precisely because of the amount of unnecessary detail added by the localization. I honestly think that John Sears was instructed to increase the length of the novel (directly translated without embellishment it would've been very short), hence the added descriptions, and why I really don't want to blame him for the quality as it comes off like he was under some major constraints. KF


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