Lunar 1's Party vs. Lunar 2's Party

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Who would win in a fight?

Lunar Silver Star Party
6
29%
Lunar Eternal Blue Party
15
71%
 
Total votes: 21
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localflick
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Lunar 1's Party vs. Lunar 2's Party

Postby localflick » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:54 am

This might have been done before, but without starting a riot, who would win in a fight with Lunar 1's party vs. Lunar 2's party?

Since the parties in both games change a lot let's stick to these characters:

Silver Star Party: Alex, Kyle, Jessica, Nash, and Mia
Eternal Blue Party: Hiro, Ronfar, Jean, Lemina, and Leo

Assume all abilities are unlocked, and everyone's at max EXP. For the sake of the fight, let's stick to Sega CD's abilities, but also note PSX abilities when needed. (It matters for characters like Ronfar).

Let the battle begin!

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Postby Blue_Sycro » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:00 am

Hmm, at this point, I don't think I could pick one yet. I think Lunar 2's group of characters worked better as a team. I feel like they worked better as a collective unit than Lunar 1's people.

However, I feel like the characters from Lunar 1 were stronger individually. This might have just been me, but when I was playing through Lunar 2, having just one person faint kinda threw off my whole balance, whereas in Lunar 1, if everyone fainted leaving only one person still standing, it wasn't all that big of a deal.

I need to do some more analyzing first :roll:

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Postby Angelalex242 » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:28 am

Goin' Lunar 2 here, though Triple Sword (EBC) matters.

In a stat fight, anyway.

However, overall:

The biggest weakness Lunar1 has is Nash, who, paired against Jean, is no match for her at all. Jean hoses him quickly.

At that point, Jean can help her friends pick off the rest of Lunar 1's party by doubleteaming them.

None of the Lunar 1 characters can hose their counterparts quickly, so Jean's advantage eventually pulls a win off.
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Postby dragonmaster_jonathan » Sat Dec 24, 2005 1:38 pm

Silver star had the better party by a longshot. The characters had more personality and in my opinion, it had stronger side people (like laike)
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Postby otakujohn » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:27 pm

hmm...hard to say. I remember Jean's moves being total ownage so I cast my vote for the L2 crew.


Edit: This would make a really funny flash animation. ^_^

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:52 pm

I'm gonna have to go with the Lunar 2 crew. Between Hiro's Poe Sword, Lemina's Magic Shield, and White Dragon Protect (assuming items are allowed), and the fact that Nash is dead weight in the Lunar 1 party, Lunar 2 would totally win.
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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:52 pm

Since we're going strictly power-based, then it definitely has to go to the Lunar 2 party. Break it down by party and person to see what I mean...

For TSS:
Alex - heavy hitter, heavily armored--but, all his powerful magic spells eat up way too much MP, and he'd be reduced down to just sword attacks in a few rounds.
Kyle - heavy hitter, heavily armored, but nothing else
Jessica - cleric class, equal to Ronfar. She'll just be healing
Nash - useless by the end of the game... his spells are so weak by comparison that the TSS party may as well have only 4 people
Mia - great spells, so long as she stays in the back

For EB:
Hiro - heavy hitter, decently armored, and his main magic spell is cheap enough in MP to use every round
Ronfar - cleric class, equal to Jessica. He'll just be healing
Jean - fast hitter, so you know she'll be able to act first before each round if you need some emergency healing
Lemina - great spells, so long as she stays in the back. Plus, she has a good magic shield spell
Leo - heavy hitter, decently armored. Like a second Hiro

So in all, you have Jessica and Ronfar cancelling each other out. Nash is insignificant for TSS's party, and Alex's magic runs out way too quickly--and can be easily negated by Lemina's magic shield.

What that leaves is Alex & Kyle as the 'tanks' with Mia casting magic. This is up against Hiro & Leo as the 'tanks' with magic support, and Lemina casting magic. That alone would give EB's party the edge, but then Jean comes along as an added bonus. Had I the time right now, I'd give a round-by-round prediction. KF
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Postby Alunissage » Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:04 pm

I used Nash as a physical attacker much of the time (at one point in the game he was actually more powerful than Alex using the best weapons they had available then), and Jessica as well. One thing that was convenient about TSS is that Alex and Mia also had healing spells and Mia had the Recovery Cane so Jess didn't always have to be the healer. It's been a while since I've played, but I'd put Jess above Ronfar for fighting, definitely. She had more attacks and range -- though it's hard to judge the latter since TSS used moves instead.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:13 pm

It seems to me that it would be a fairer fight if you used the PSX stats/abilities. Those two games have much more similar battle systems than the Sega CD games have. Also, Alex's Sword Dance makes him a much more even match against Hiro with his Poe Sword, and he'd also have White Dragon Protect. And on top of that, the addition of Nash's status-altering magic in SSSC could make him more useful than he is with just the thunder-based magic he has in TSS. He's very fast in combat, and it's possible that he could toss out a status-altering spell in the first round of combat that could really swing the battle in favor of the Lunar 1 team.
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Postby Angelalex242 » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:34 pm

Yes, but on PSX, Alex dies round 1.

Alex has 525 health.

Triple Sword does about 700 per swing.

Hiro has the agility advantage.

Splat.

In fact, let's assume the following commands are entered for each team:
Alex:WDP
Kyle:Power Slash vs. Leo
Nash:Thunder Thrust
Mia:Flameria
Jess:Tranquil Litany

Hiro:Triple Sword vs. Alex
Leo:Soul Blade vs. Kyle
Jean:Blue Dragon Uppercut
Lemina:Catastrophe
Ronfar:Tranquil Litany.

Battle Order:
Jean
Nash
Hiro
Alex
Jessica
Ronfar
Leo
Kyle
Mia
Lemina
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Postby Alunissage » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:45 pm

Good points, guitar. The problem is that SSSC's spells were positively emasculated compared to the rest of the games', with even Mia only getting eight spells rather than the twenty-plus she has in TSS, not to mention so many stupid spells like Fear Litany. The SegaCD EB and SSSC seem the closest match to me, though they're still not much of a match with SSSC's stripped-down arsenal.

The whole stat-comparing thing is stupid anyway, though, because the games' balances are obviously different. For that matter, is that 700 for Triple Sword against enemies with comparable defense to Alex's with dragon armor?

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Postby Blue_Sycro » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:03 pm

Ok, in the end I think I have to say Lunar 2's team. Anyone from L2's team could easily own Nash. I think Hiro or Leo could take out Mia (as in, the team's main magic attack powerhouse) faster than Alex or Kyle could take Lemina (I think so, anyway). Speaking of magic, I felt like Lemina had stronger magic than Mia. Catastrophe vs. Flameria. No contest. Plus if she's allowed White Dragon Protect, it'd be all over for L1. Jessica and Ronfar are basically equal (both healers, both had adequate attack/defensive strength). Leo could probably take Kyle. I'm sure Hiro and Alex would be basically evenly matched.

A big advantage L2's team has over L1's team is that the Dragon powers can be distributed amongst the team, rather just one person being able to cast them.

But yeah, like Alunissage said the game balances are different. If both teams were in the same game, it'd be a totally different story.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:22 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:Yes, but on PSX, Alex dies round 1.

Alex has 525 health.

Triple Sword does about 700 per swing.

Hiro has the agility advantage.


That's where Nash comes in. If he successfully casts a Paralyze, Charm or Mute spell (does he have Mute magic? I don't remember off the top of my head...) on Hiro, that gives Alex time to get out a White Dragon Protect spell.
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Postby Angelalex242 » Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:50 am

Well, if you assume Alex as as tough as the Chiros in Nall's cave...it's actually 400 a hit.

But Chiros halve all damage, and Alex doesn't, so.
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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:24 am

Actually, you know what sounds even better than pitting the casts of Lunar 1 and Lunar 2 against each other? Having them both team up and beat down on the cast of Lunar: Dragon Song.
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Rune Lai
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Postby Rune Lai » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:36 am

I dislike comparing HPs of one game to HPs of another because the game systems are not identical. For a gross comparision, it's like saying all the characters in FF7 are stronger than anyone in EB because they have thousands of HP and do thousands of damage. They're not stronger. It's just a different game system.

So Hiro's Triple Sword - Alex's defense = die in one hit isn't an valid argument. Not unless they're using the same battle system, which they're not. They're certainly related systems, but they're not identical.

I voted for the TSS party because in TSS they beat up everything thrown at them without a problem. I never struggled in that game.

The EB party had a challenge getting through the game. They died a lot. They can't even make an organized run for their lives.

Therefore, I think if we pit them against each other, the TSS group is stronger. They had an easier time clearing the obstacles on their quest therefore they must be more competent. :P
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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:11 am

Yeah, comparing HP systems is very silly. It's just as silly to say that TSS's party would win because you could always run, and they could simply run away to level up before fighting.

Ah, but if it were a boss fight, then TSS team couldn't run. But EB's team, well, because in EB you had Angel Tears, Hiro and company could resurrect their fallen party members. Therefore, EB would definitely win because it's possible to raise people who's HP drops to zero.

See, it gets to be very silly when you get right down to it. This is a comparison of characters, not of game mechanics. KF
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Postby Lunar6000 » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:18 am

Lets put stats aside for a second and I think what he meant is a fight like in a anime type scene...

I vote Lunar 2 because Lunar 1 they struggled to beat Ghaleon, but Lunar 2 they defeated a Dark God Zophar... so Lunar 2 wins this.
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Postby Ozone » Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:45 am

EB(C) would torch TSS(SSSC) solely because Nash sucks.
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Postby Rune Lai » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:23 am

Nash doesn't suck! :D
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