ReMake of Lunar DS *New pic of Perit Village*

[Sadrin]

I uploaded a new picture! It's within the first post. So some news about the project...
I'll be moving down the street within the next...well? week or the next? So that will put me back just a little bit. Otherwise everything is going swell. I'm looking to have some real game play within the next 6 months. ^_^ So uh... I hope everyone likes the new picture.

[Nobiyuki77]

Looks very nice! Looking forward to it!

[Sadrin]

I uploaded a new picture of New Port Searis! I know that sounds stupid but i'm trashing the old Searis as it's very flat and boring. If anyone is good with isometric graphics and wants to help out let me know. Game progress is now moving much faster than before.

[Nobiyuki77]

Makes sense, a lot of the graphics for the game were isometric to begin with, so that'll be faster. I'll post some portraits when I have more done (I have 1 more Jian done and another almost done. I'm gonna hold off on animating the portraits until they're all done since it's a time killer and I don't even know if we'll be able to have animated portraits. Once they're all done, if it's possible and time permitting I'll start animating them then.)

[Arm]

I rarely take part in discussions on the message board, but seeing how this evolved since the last version of the map, I'll give my opinion.
Isometric view is a nice variation in style, but if you use it, it should only be for small or specific portions of the maps. For example the entrance of a Dragon Cave, the fountain in the central area of a village or a small map with an isolated well in the center of the area. Another good example could be the final scene in the Silver Star where you must reach Luna and the stairs are taken diagonally.

Graphically, it does indeed look nice, but if the game will always scroll and play in isometric view, it will eventually look like a mix between the Popolocrois series, the Mother series and Thousand Arms. But not like a Lunar game.
Lunar maps have never been isometric, and it's safe to say that Lunar DS is all but a reference in the series.

Originally, I thought your intent from the start was to create a revamped version of Lunar DS and come back to the roots with the style of the original Lunar games. But from what can be seen now, this doesn't seem like it anymore. Rather than a total change, it looks more like a Lunar DS mark 2.

The original port map was less refined graphically, but nonetheless more faithful to the classic Lunar style map. The new version is graphically better but doesn't look like it's taken from a Lunar game. I think you should reinject the graphic upgrade from the isometric view to the original top view graphics and use isometric view only to illustrate specific areas and that way, stay true to the original games. I guess a lot of patience and work would be needed to redo those changes, but you're the final judge

Just my 2 cents.

[phyco126]

Is that... is that a Ghaleon scarecrow?

[Sadrin]

So how does everyone like the idea of using isometric views for the project? I see that Arm doesn't really care for it much? Lol no worries, I understand its different.

When I found out that Dragon Song was going to use an isometric view for the game I was a little upset by this. There are only a few games that have ever really pulled isometric off. Most games use a mixture and promise something pretty? Now if you've played DS you will notice right away that it's really not so isometric! The most isometric part of the game is running up some slanted stairs. Just because a player can move their character in a diagonal line doesn't make it isometric.

The reasons for me using isometric:
1. It seems that was the original format for maps but moved to using pictures for towns.
2. For this game to stand out on it's own. I know that seems stupid being that i'm ripping GFX.
3. I've studied every lunar game's building style. One thing that they all have in common(more so in others) is the use of curves and flat top houses. L:DS's town maps do a fantastic job at showing Lunar architecture design.
4. The lunar graphic style is really outdated. L:L went out and changed that by making colors brighter and cleaner looking. If you look at past games, the colors are very dark and muted. Now I could make the project darker to show that it's in the past of the Lunars we know but that would be a huge step backwards. Also the buildings in L:EB and up tend to be smaller by design. L:TSS features larger buildings. This dates the game as being older. By using Isoview, I can show that the buildings are bigger but take up less space while showing great detail.
5. L:DS had the right graphic style down for the game. The design was very much to the roots of what lunar design was. Just look at the frontier, Its a desert in L:TSS but in L:SSSC its empty like our moon.
6. I can reuse the graphics that are used in L:DS such as walls. I won't use the character sprites because there really small! Stand them next to a table!!

So there are a few reasons why i'm liking the isoview. Now most of the graphics i'll be using are from the Popolocrois games. I'm glad Arm mentioned the game. I always felt that Popolocrois was somewhat a rip off of Lunar. It has very much of the same feel to the series that lunar has. This doesn't mean i'm not super editing the graphics to fit lunar style, because I am. I'm still going to try and copy the town layouts of the DS. Oh and sprites will be done like L:L but not so flat? Movement will be just like it is in L:DS but smother. That means no icky isometric movement!

So uh... let me know what you guys think! The more I hear the better this project will be.
phyco126: Yup! ^_^ like?

[Nobiyuki77]

I'm pretty neutral. The isometric town views were the least of my complaints with Lunar DS. My major riffs with the game included.

1) Spotty, incomplete cliff-hanger story.
2) Running costing HP (or to get even picker, the fact that there was even a difference of speed at all. All previous Lunar games had the characters moving at the same pace)
3) Everything about battling. The fact that you couldn't select your targets, the extremely unbalanced characters, the perspective, the experience system, being limited to a 3 character party. Battling in Lunar DS was a true test of fortitude.
4) Cluttered menu design
5) Point and Click world map (I didn't like it in Legend or DS)

So long as the first 4 are addressed in some form or fashion, I'm good.

[phyco126]

phyco126: Yup! ^_^ like?

Sure, I think it's pretty cute and possibly can be considered an Easter Egg?

[Alunissage]

Okay, I finally got around to looking at the first page with the update. Wow, that looks great. I think for the first time it gives me the feel of a "real" remake, since it recognizes one of the non-negative unique aspects of DS and keeps that while tuning it up.

It looks like you plan to make the dungeons straight-on instead of isometric, and I think that's a reasonable compromise between the DS style and that of the other Lunars.

Running costing HP (or to get even picker, the fact that there was even a difference of speed at all. All previous Lunar games had the characters moving at the same pace)

I have to correct you; in EBC dungeons Hiro could dash for short periods. Remember the easter egg WD put in of equipping him with a ludicrous combination of items to quadruple the length of time he could do it?

Myself, I'd be OK with running using up HP if you could recover it by standing still. It doesn't make sense to have the first of those without the second.

[Nobiyuki77]

I have to correct you; in EBC dungeons Hiro could dash for short periods. Remember the easter egg WD put in of equipping him with a ludicrous combination of items to quadruple the length of time he could do it?

I stand corrected. I completely forgot about that since it's been ages since I've played the PS editions. >>

EDIT: Two more this week.

[Arm]

I see your point.
Out of curiosity and for fun, I took today your Port Searis and Perit village images to see how it could look like if we mix the old with the new version.
For Port Searis, it was rather easy, because there were already walls (seen from the front) textures. So I put the textures of the new version on the old one, did some color correction and added some details like the form of streetlamp, the ground's texture or chimney shadows.
I left the roof of the old version as I thought it was closer to the original map of the game.
Otherwhise, maybe more details could be added to the roofs and ground.

Perit village was a bit more difficult because everything was isometric, so it took a bit more time in order to tweak and recreate the house and stairs in top down view. Fortunately, there are proper tools in photoshop, that help to do the job.

All the used images were in compressed jpeg, the reason why the pictures aren't very clear. But the if used images are the original gif textures (not compressed), there wouldn't be any problem.

I didn't pay attention to details on the maps, this was just a little test to see how it would look in top down view.

Don't know what people think of the top down version compared to the isometric version.

After all, I guess this is just a matter of taste.

[Omega]

Um... is a demo available? i'm actually curious about this...

[PrettyGirlJean]

Looking really awesome guys! I think this project is coming along really great so far! I don't mind either view to be honest. Even if the graphics are a bit off even that I would be fine with. What I am looking forward to is gameplay and most of all story. So, I unfortunately can't really give much feedback until then Sorry! But I do really love that Ghaleon scarecrow <3 lol And of course great job on the artwork as well! The character portraits look fantastic! ^_^b

[LuciaOne]

Wow, really awesome work guys! Great artwork
As long as you don't make running take away hit points, then go for it XD

[Sadrin]

sorry guys for the lack of posts! I moved andnow I can't get Internet to work on any computer... It has something to do with vista!! >_< so it might be awhile till I'm able to post anything new to view. The isometric port ssearis is comming along very well. This means I'm keeping the ISO view. I just feel like it fits! ^_^ Argh my iPhone sucks right now...

[Sadrin]

Hey guys! I'm back online and almost all unpacked! The game is comming along really well! I can't wait till I get Port Searis done! It's going to look so awesome! So some changes to the Port Searis(PS) we know- Its going to be a bit larger. From what I've read, PS is one of Lunar's biggest cities. That means it has a larger port, and more houses and a few more stores. The goddess statue will now be the center of town! It's also were Jian and Lucia live. Dragon Song just makes it feel like Jian and Lucia are passing by on a job or something. So this means that they have Homes and family. Here is a picture of the new port. NO detail has been added. It's very boring right now lol. You'll get the idea though.

[Nobiyuki77]

Nice work Sadrin. Once the Sonic pic is done I'm back on the Lunar artwork (I only have 2 more days to work on the Sonic piece anyhoo). ^^

[WD RPG WD]

What are you all doing for music? Is it midi? And where are you getting the music from?

[Sadrin]

What are you all doing for music? Is it midi? And where are you getting the music from?

As of right now we're using music from Dragon song that's been ripped by Arm. Hes done a great job on fixing them up. We'll be using ogg format or mp3 but not sure yet? I'm also looking into remixed lunar music but there really isn't much around. I have my personal theme song for the game but not sure if i'll include that. It's a song that reminds me of the world map theme of Dragon Song, its called Will by Ayumi Hamasaki. ^_^ The lyrics match perfect with the feeling of the game as well.

Nobiyuki77 - Take your time