oh. my. gosh.

[meg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5zL3dqd ... ed&search=

listen to her. she can scream. like, a proper metal scream.

ithinki'minlove.

[phyco126]

Hah. I've had this song for a long time now. I love it

On an unrelated note, she's hot in a special way. I wouldn't date her though, she would probably beat me every night.

[Ozone]

Ick... Flyleaf =[ Flyleaf is actually a Christian band, so, I doubt she'd beat you every night, Phyco... It seems like I'm the only guy I know that doesn't even find her remotely attractive =/

Try this instead for a chick that can do a proper metal scream: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSU-hqNk ... ed&search=



Best scream in the business: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC3K5XGU9h0

[meg]

ha. they are christian then? i thought they might be when i heard them on the radio.

i always feel a little bad when i'm attracted to a christian girl, because i know she likely wouldn't appreciate it. but she's got that crazy skinny river tam look to her, plus that voice.

and i'm not into the constant rasp of the style your link was in. i just like that when someone throws a scream into a song, they do it right. i can't do it.

[Zophar]

O_o *whistles* Damn... I remember a former friend showing me that video. But even after seeing it already it still surprises me.

Is she hot? Yea she's relatively hot. Would I want to date her: No. Doesn't seem like my type.

[phyco126]

Please, just because she is in a christian band doesn't mean she still wouldn't beat me. "Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

Besides, look deep down in your hearts. I'm sure even you deeply religous people here wants to beat me from time to time. Or always. One of those

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

i definitely see what you're saying. this deserves an unheated discussion...if that's even possible.

[AnimeJei]

Flyleaf will be playing near me along with Korn and several other groups in several days.. I wish I could go ><

[Ozone]

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

i definitely see what you're saying. this deserves an unheated discussion...if that's even possible.

Well, she's also about the size of my pinky finger. I've met her =/ She's tiny.

[LuNaRtIc]

Aw, from what I hear, Lacey is a sweetie. My sister hung out with her on the Family Values Tour. Lacey was scared of Kyo from Dir en Grey. xD

[exigence]

like, a proper metal scream.

ithinki'minlove.

A proper what, screaming has nothing to do with real music. It makes me sick when i have to listen to some of my friends say....

"omfg the devil wears prada were so sweet even tho one of their screamers couldnt do the show, and bitbam"

"what"

"beteween the buried and me, god there like the best band ever, i mean the guy can scream so sweet it blows my mind."

At least this chick can sing halfway decent when she wants to, shes no lisa hammer or siouxsie sioux but she has a shread of potential if she would give up this screaming buisness.

I would put this song on the same level as farting the canadian national anthem, i think if the american national anthem was farted it would be a more sophisticated work of music.

why would you guys even waste your time watching this garbage im still sour for sitting through the whole thing with out killing myself. the time you spend listining to this could be better spent listing to aretha franklin if you like the female singer concept, or maybe ozzy and the queens of the stone age if you crave somthing a bit heavier, somewhere along the line you poor sould were guided down the crap side of music. Ozone i thought you like the Porcupine tree, now i dont know what to think. you guys are dead to me now

[DeathBeforeDenial]

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

Foolish blanket statements like that quickly remove any credibility you may hope to carry into a discussion.

[phyco126]

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

Foolish blanket statements like that quickly remove any credibility you may hope to carry into a discussion.

Foolish or not, it carries weight.

[Ozone]

like, a proper metal scream.

ithinki'minlove.

A proper what, screaming has nothing to do with real music. It makes me sick when i have to listen to some of my friends say....

"omfg the devil wears prada were so sweet even tho one of their screamers couldnt do the show, and bitbam"

"what"

"beteween the buried and me, god there like the best band ever, i mean the guy can scream so sweet it blows my mind."

At least this chick can sing halfway decent when she wants to, shes no lisa hammer or siouxsie sioux but she has a shread of potential if she would give up this screaming buisness.

I would put this song on the same level as farting the canadian national anthem, i think if the american national anthem was farted it would be a more sophisticated work of music.

why would you guys even waste your time watching this garbage im still sour for sitting through the whole thing with out killing myself. the time you spend listining to this could be better spent listing to aretha franklin if you like the female singer concept, or maybe ozzy and the queens of the stone age if you crave somthing a bit heavier, somewhere along the line you poor sould were guided down the crap side of music. Ozone i thought you like the Porcupine tree, now i dont know what to think. you guys are dead to me now

I actually don't like Arch Enemy that much, but if I had to choose between Flyleaf and them, I'd pick the fretwork of Arch Enemy. Screaming has nothing to do with it. The same is true of Lamb of God, though I'm not sure singing would work well with the kinetic nature of their material. When it comes down to it, I'd take the voice of Bjork or Sharon from Within Temptation or Maynard over any voice in the metal business I just love the chops for the most part.

BTBAM has amazing skill when it comes to their instruments, but they really shine when the singer actually puts the screams away. The sweep arpeggios and measured blast beats are absolutely mind boggling.

Alice In Chains and Porcupine > metal

[meg]

heh! i'm going to give that deep analytical rant the response it deserves.

kiss my arse, exigence. there's a reason there are so many kinds of music. people have differing tastes.

and me, i like a girl who can scream.

a little screaming here too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhsRFYpuwIM

i like to sing along with my music. a little melody, a little play, and a little screaming. i wish there were more female singers in rock music, because i prefer rock, and boys tend to sing in an octave i can't match.

[DeathBeforeDenial]

Foolish or not, it carries weight.

So you acknowledge it's foolish? Because foolish things carry no weight, foolishness is by its very essence without logic and reason. For someone who is so quick to point out the lack of logic and reason within organized religion, you certainly stoop to those very same levels a little too often.

Attempting to make a blanket statement, based off of some small and petty personal experience is absolutely ridiculous and a very poor method of coming to a logical conclusion about something.

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

Words like always, never, only, nothing are typically used to exaggerate a point that lacks any real validity. Sorry Phyco, but you have no grounds to preach, especially intentionally mean spirited things like that.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Phyco's statement DOES have validity. Don't pretend it doesn't. There are MANY people who simply feel like carrying the title but nothing more. Phyco just exaggerated, that's all.

[phyco126]

Foolish or not, it carries weight.

So you acknowledge it's foolish? Because foolish things carry no weight, foolishness is by its very essence without logic and reason. For someone who is so quick to point out the lack of logic and reason within organized religion, you certainly stoop to those very same levels a little too often.

Attempting to make a blanket statement, based off of some small and petty personal experience is absolutely ridiculous and a very poor method of coming to a logical conclusion about something.

"Christian" means nothing anymore, it's nothing more than a freaking formality title.

Words like always, never, only, nothing are typically used to exaggerate a point that lacks any real validity. Sorry Phyco, but you have no grounds to preach, especially intentionally mean spirited things like that.

Yes, foolishness carries no weight, you are right, but it's also a matter of opinion what foolishness is. A unarmed guy tackles a guy with a automatic rifle. You call him a fool, I call him a hero, who is right and who is wrong? When I said "foolish or not" I meant whether you or anyone else thinks it's foolish, it isn't really to me and does carry weight. Also, you and everyone else may think I have no logic or reasoning, but I swear things like this make more sense to me than it does to anyone else. I've seen both sides to Christianity, I've looked at both and have observed how it generally works with people. My comment about it being "nothing more than a formality title" is from my direct observations. I live in the Christian capital of America, I have to deal with zeolots all the time. I have to put up with it from my dad and step-mom even. I've had to directly deal with thousands of these so called "Christians." So when I said what I said, I meant that people apoint themselves as Christians, but it carries no meaning when they are the opposite of the so called "Christian way of life." They give themselves that title when they don't deserve it, yet they write it down when they are surveyed or have to respond to what religion they are. Thus, it's just a formality, a title.

Sure I haven't directly dealt with the what, 1 billion or so "Christians" in the world, but that doesn't mean that my dealings and personal experience is "small" and "petty."

If about 90% of the people you dealt with are insane -Albino Baboon-, then it is logical to conclude that the majority of the world consists of insane -Albino Baboon- if 90% of the tens of thousands of people you interacted with thus far in your life where insane -Albino Baboon-.

And no, Christianity mean nothing to me anymore. I'm sorry, I should have put "to me" after "nothing." After all, it is my opinion.

Seriously, for living in the "Christian Capital" it is very sad to see a massive portion of "Christians" be the complete and utter opposite of what a Christian *is.* When I say *is,* to be clear, I mean what "Christians" have told me what "Christianity" is. To quote just about all of them that have explained it to me, ranging from zeolots to people that actually act like they are supposed to, "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a way of life." Then they would go on to explain that real christians don't judge, don't condem, don't yell or scream or lose their temper at someone who is trying their mother -Fatal Hopper- best. They don't lie, cheat, steal, and they are loyal and faithful to the ones they love. They are kind, caring, empathetic and sympathic. They give to charity, turn the other cheek, and instead of forcing their beliefs (the whole, OMG you gonna burn in hell you non-christian) they spend their time helping people better understand it. They know no one is perfect, but they understand that if you do your best, live a good life and learn from your mistakes, then you are a good example of a human being.

Yet I've only meet a very small percentage out of well over a thousand who ever even did half of that. The rest where nothing but inconsiderate hypocrytical -Albino Baboon-.

I'm not claiming I'm perfect, I know my place in the world. I know what I am, and I am not afraid to say that I too am hypocrytical, I make mistakes, but you know what? I'm not running around calling myself a Christian while cutting people off in the road, yelling at people, demanding that if you don't cater to their every need like a slave that they will go off on you and threaten to A. Get you fired, B. Flat out curse you out like a coach who's team is losing the big game, C. Threaten or actually sues you, D. attacks you, E. Throws -Dragon Diamond- around the room, F. Whatever else is the opposite of what you should be. I also don't go around telling everyone they are going to burn in hell because they don't believe what I believe, and that they are sinners and deserve to die. Yes, I judge, but I hardly compare to "Christians." I also actually try to be nice, understanding, calm, as non-judgemental as possible, wise, philosphical, whatever.

So if I have a F in math, does this mean I'm wrong to tell you that 1+1=2? Yes, this is all opinion, I don't have hard facts, data, proof, statistics or any of the other BS that people seem to want before they even consider the possibility that someone may actually be partially or completely right.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, but goddamnit, at least make an attempt to see this -Dragon Diamond- through my eyes, my experience. I do my best to look at as many sides of the issue as possible, and weigh it in, then I reply with my opinion of whatever. Go ahead, continue to call me stupid, wrong, illogical, retareded, hypocrytical, whatever. It's your right, just do it after seeing my side as an actual possibility.

Now no offense DBD, you probably already weighed in my side and have come to your conclusion. If so, then alright. One last thing, you know what? You are right about several things you have mentioned about me, but that doesn't mean I still don't have a right to talk about something that I do have some experience in. Feel free to shoot back at anything or everything I said. Who knows, maybe you have the light that I need to see.

[exigence]

i wish there were more female singers in rock music, because i prefer rock, and boys tend to sing in an octave i can't match.

there are plenty of female singers in rock music (that dont scream) if you know where to look.
Sonic Youth, Siouxsie and the Banshees, This Mortal Coil, The Mamas and Papas, Nico, Jefferson Airplane, Faith and the Muse, Mors syphilitica, and the Cocteau Twins.

HellYeah Alice and Chains

[DeathBeforeDenial]

Yes, foolishness carries no weight, you are right, but it's also a matter of opinion what foolishness is. A unarmed guy tackles a guy with a automatic rifle. You call him a fool, I call him a hero, who is right and who is wrong?

Bad example, it depends how he went about tackling the guy that displays whether he is wise or a fool. If he runs straight into the barrel of his rifle he is a fool, a valiant (Or heroic, whatever) fool, but a fool nonetheless. Also, foolishness and wisdom typically operate within the laws of logic, and if you stray into logical fallacies too often then statements can be called foolish with a very convincing case being made to back up that claim.

When I said "foolish or not" I meant whether you or anyone else thinks it's foolish, it isn't really to me and does carry weight. Also, you and everyone else may think I have no logic or reasoning, but I swear things like this make more sense to me than it does to anyone else.

Then you have a burden of proof if you are to make claims such as you did earlier in the topic. It was an innappropriate place for the remark you made, as it had nothing to do with the topic on hand, and since it had no proof to go along with it, how is it supposed to make sense to anyone other than you, and to those who already have an axe to grind against Christians.

I've seen both sides to Christianity, I've looked at both and have observed how it generally works with people. My comment about it being "nothing more than a formality title" is from my direct observations. I live in the Christian capital of America, I have to deal with zeolots all the time. I have to put up with it from my dad and step-mom even. I've had to directly deal with thousands of these so called "Christians." So when I said what I said, I meant that people apoint themselves as Christians, but it carries no meaning when they are the opposite of the so called "Christian way of life." They give themselves that title when they don't deserve it, yet they write it down when they are surveyed or have to respond to what religion they are. Thus, it's just a formality, a title.

I too have been on, and argued for "both sides". As an atheist seeing Christian charity as generally a good thing, morphing into an atheist who came to be vehemently opposed to organized religion, to a Christian who had a more negative view of lax Christians, to where I am now.

But what are your grounds for implying they are false Christians? What are their actions that contradict their beliefs? How much do you know about Christianity, is it enough to know whether or not they are true Christians? Why don't they deserve the title of Christian? In what context were you dealing with "Thousands of so-called "Christians""?

If about 90% of the people you dealt with are insane -Albino Baboon-, then it is logical to conclude that the majority of the world consists of insane -Albino Baboon- if 90% of the tens of thousands of people you interacted with thus far in your life where insane -Albino Baboon-.

Could it perhaps be that you have a pessimistic worldview, any time I see you speak on news events, it seems to resort to "Humanity is disgusting" or in a positive news story "Not all people are terrible." I don't want to try and draw a conclusion without some facts, but 90% is an awfully high number, it could very well be your perceptions that leads to so many people being in the -Albino Baboon- category. And may I ask where you have had interactions with tens of thousands of Christians?

Seriously, for living in the "Christian Capital" it is very sad to see a massive portion of "Christians" be the complete and utter opposite of what a Christian *is.* When I say *is,* to be clear, I mean what "Christians" have told me what "Christianity" is. To quote just about all of them that have explained it to me, ranging from zeolots to people that actually act like they are supposed to, "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a way of life." Then they would go on to explain that real christians don't judge, don't condem, don't yell or scream or lose their temper at someone who is trying their mother -Fatal Hopper- best. They don't lie, cheat, steal, and they are loyal and faithful to the ones they love. They are kind, caring, empathetic and sympathic. They give to charity, turn the other cheek, and instead of forcing their beliefs (the whole, OMG you gonna burn in hell you non-christian) they spend their time helping people better understand it. They know no one is perfect, but they understand that if you do your best, live a good life and learn from your mistakes, then you are a good example of a human being.

Yet I've only meet a very small percentage out of well over a thousand who ever even did half of that. The rest where nothing but inconsiderate hypocrytical -Albino Baboon-.

I live in Southern California, there are quite a lot of Christians here as well, especially in Orange County. We have Mexican and Vietnamese Catholics, as well as Protestant services for every racial sect. So I have met a fair share of Christians, both as an atheist and as a Christian and while I agree there is hypocrisy within the Church it is not the rule, nor the majority. Besides, these people are human, to act as though being a Christian immediately makes you invincible to mistake and faltering is foolish and ignoring one of the fundamental truths of Christianity. Even Jesus struggled.

What did well over a thousand people do to you, to prove unequivocally that they are hypocrites?

I'm not claiming I'm perfect, I know my place in the world. I know what I am, and I am not afraid to say that I too am hypocrytical, I make mistakes, but you know what? I'm not running around calling myself a Christian while cutting people off in the road, yelling at people, demanding that if you don't cater to their every need like a slave that they will go off on you and threaten to A. Get you fired, B. Flat out curse you out like a coach who's team is losing the big game, C. Threaten or actually sues you, D. attacks you, E. Throws -Dragon Diamond- around the room, F. Whatever else is the opposite of what you should be. I also don't go around telling everyone they are going to burn in hell because they don't believe what I believe, and that they are sinners and deserve to die. Yes, I judge, but I hardly compare to "Christians." I also actually try to be nice, understanding, calm, as non-judgemental as possible, wise, philosphical, whatever.

Well, for what it's worth I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with Christians. As my old Pastor used to tell me, imagine the best and perfect dinner possible, served on a garbage can. All I can say is, that it is incredibly useless and unwise to write off a whole group of people because of a few bad experiences. I didn't write off Asians when the brother of the girl I was dating threatened her and myself for dating a white guy, or when I almost got attacked by a group of 4 of them. I don't write off Muslims and Arabs because of terrorist actions carried out over the years. It is rarely ever a good idea to insulate yourself from others on such a broad scale, it's too easy to miss out on something wonderful, and I'm not even speaking about religion anymore.

So if I have a F in math, does this mean I'm wrong to tell you that 1+1=2? Yes, this is all opinion, I don't have hard facts, data, proof, statistics or any of the other BS that people seem to want before they even consider the possibility that someone may actually be partially or completely right.

No, you would not be wrong, but if you wanted to tell me that you had proven the Goldbach Conjecture, then you should have some evidence to back it up. 1+1=2 is equivalent to saying there is at least one Christian in the world who is a hypocrite.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, but goddamnit, at least make an attempt to see this -Dragon Diamond- through my eyes, my experience. I do my best to look at as many sides of the issue as possible, and weigh it in, then I reply with my opinion of whatever. Go ahead, continue to call me stupid, wrong, illogical, retareded, hypocrytical, whatever. It's your right, just do it after seeing my side as an actual possibility.

I'm attempting to see your side, which is why I am still typing, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt because it is not worth writing you off. However I will not act as though I will ignore fallacy and exagerration. Experience is real, but remember perception and prejudice play heavy roles in experience.

Now no offense DBD, you probably already weighed in my side and have come to your conclusion. If so, then alright. One last thing, you know what? You are right about several things you have mentioned about me, but that doesn't mean I still don't have a right to talk about something that I do have some experience in. Feel free to shoot back at anything or everything I said. Who knows, maybe you have the light that I need to see.

I was too quick to say you had no right to preach about it, for that I apologize, however, you have a burden of proof here to make me understand. And while experience is important, study and knowledge will lend far more important information that will in the end allow for a much more well thought out and thorough (As well as respectable) opinion to be made.