So, what's with all the Metal topics?

Your general non-gaming entertainment thread.
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Ozone
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Postby Ozone » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:47 am

Faust wrote:
Ozone wrote:Gotta go for the Chrono Cross OST and the Creid CD from Xenogears for videogame OSTs.


Chrono Cross made of pure win and awesomeness definitely. Almost every single track is excellent. From Time's Scar to Radical Dreamers. This and Legend of Mana OST got me into VGM.

Question.

What is the Creid CD from Xenogears? I have heard some good things about it. Is it a special arrange album of Xenogears or something? Always been wanting to find out more about it, but inevitably it always slipped my mind...^_^

Is it better than the original OST of Xenogears? I only remembered a few memorable tracks from that awesome game...^_^

On Topic : Yes I find it totally weird that metal topics are sort of dominating here on a classic RPG forum. Goes to show that all Lunar fans comes in various flavours and shapes...^_^


It's basically celtic arrangments of songs from the Xenogears OST, and it is freakin' brilliant.
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Postby Faust » Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Ozone wrote:It's basically celtic arrangments of songs from the Xenogears OST, and it is freakin' brilliant.


I see, thank you...^_^
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:52 pm

DragonmasterAndy wrote:Well..part of it for me is people's misconception of Metal. That it's all just noise, and growling and things like that...
THAT bothers me.


http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=4296

That isn't for the sake of offense. The link brings up serious points of discontent towards metal. The criticism in it is really rude now and then, but i want you to ignore that and address the things that are addressable and ignore the Q and A type thing at the bottom.

Here's part of it.

"in all these years, I haven’t seen a single satisfactory shred of evidence that heavy metal doesn’t suck completely and utterly. I haven’t heard any metal band isn’t composed of stunted adolescence, half-assed rebellion, tongue-in-cheek stupidity, masturbatory pap, tuneless dirge, juvenile morbidity, retarded sexuality, or some nauseating combination of those elements. I haven’t heard a single defense of its artistry that made a shred of sense. I haven’t heard a “serious” metal song that didn’t sound comical. I haven’t heard a fantasy metal song with anything interesting to say about dragons. I haven’t heard anything, seen anything, read anything or met anyone who could convince me that metal, as a whole, is not artistically bankrupt, direly uncool, and irredeemably dumb. Not most of it. All of it. "

Yes, this person is rude. The website in general is rude, but it does say interesting things.

From what i've seen at this place, i expect that at least one of you will read and hopefully refute it. Let the debate begin. ^_^

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Postby Megalodon » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:37 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:
DragonmasterAndy wrote:Well..part of it for me is people's misconception of Metal. That it's all just noise, and growling and things like that...
THAT bothers me.


http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=4296

That isn't for the sake of offense. The link brings up serious points of discontent towards metal. The criticism in it is really rude now and then, but i want you to ignore that and address the things that are addressable and ignore the Q and A type thing at the bottom.

Here's part of it.

"in all these years, I haven’t seen a single satisfactory shred of evidence that heavy metal doesn’t suck completely and utterly. I haven’t heard any metal band isn’t composed of stunted adolescence, half-assed rebellion, tongue-in-cheek stupidity, masturbatory pap, tuneless dirge, juvenile morbidity, retarded sexuality, or some nauseating combination of those elements. I haven’t heard a single defense of its artistry that made a shred of sense. I haven’t heard a “serious” metal song that didn’t sound comical. I haven’t heard a fantasy metal song with anything interesting to say about dragons. I haven’t heard anything, seen anything, read anything or met anyone who could convince me that metal, as a whole, is not artistically bankrupt, direly uncool, and irredeemably dumb. Not most of it. All of it. "

Yes, this person is rude. The website in general is rude, but it does say interesting things.

From what i've seen at this place, i expect that at least one of you will read and hopefully refute it. Let the debate begin. ^_^



This person exist for no other reason other then to insult and belittle people. Dr. Thorpe acts as if his opinion is fact. An opinion is just that a persons thoughts on something, not fact. Every article on this website is about how something sucks, it is nothing more then a satire. This person throws out as many insults as he can about stuff other people like just to stir the pot. Everybody knows this person, he is the person that you tell the sky is blue and he says its red. He would even take it as far as to follow up with a barrage of insults about how you are a socially inept miscreant that doesn't amount to anything and to whom will NEVER amount to anything. It's argument for arguments sake. He makes no indications to what he likes thus not leaving himself open to any kind of return insult. This is good and bad because it make you argue with him based on the merit of your argument only but, it leaves you no insite into his musical taste or what he likes in general for you to understand were he is coming from. If you look further into the website half of the readers that write hate mail are teenage girls. Not much of an audience to be arguing with, especially for somebody whom is supposedly a doctor.

Now, as far as the article goes I cannot completely refute the entire thing because I basically listen to one genre which would be death. Metal is an outlet for more then just mentally bankrupt 13 year olds. Music as a whole has always been an outlet for rebelious youth as well as something you turn on after work to unwind and possibly relieve stress from a hard days work. People generally attack what they don't understand. I don't like rap but that doesn't lead me to 10 paragraph rants about how untalented and uncreative rap is and has become. That probably has more to do with me not being a pretentious prick than anything else but...I don't know what kind of artistry Dr. Thorpe is looking for. I don't know what he considers to be art in music because he never states his likes. He is like the 15 year old gothic kid that hides behind the black clothing and make up, talking about how much everything else sucks but never acknowleding the things they like. This then in turn leaves him closed off to anybody else and gives no chance for his likes to be open to debate or in some cases insult. I see paintings all the time that look no better then something my 2 year old son could do yet they sell for thousands. There are somethings no matter what you will never understand and for me that is one of them. Metal is for the most part critically ignored, in the United States. It's day has come and gone were as rap has taken over as the popular outlet for youth. Metal may or may not make a come back but there is one thing for certain it will never die. Not everyband is trying to offend somebody, I do agree the offensiveness aspect has become beyond silly. If you look at Mastodon for instance were in there is there any offensiveness projected or implied. If looking for artistry in metal then you need look no further then Mastodon. Leviathan for instance, an album completely based on Moby Dick. I can feel the thrill of the hunt listening to Blood and Thunder now thats art. Thats what music is supposed to do when done properly. It invokes emotion, preferrably one you like. I am sorry for Dr. Thorpe that the only emotion he feels is disgust but unfortunately that is his problem not mine. Nothing is for everybody and that extends far beyond music. To add to the Q&A yes I like the atmosphere, just like I like the atmosphere of a good horror movie or a comedy. Its part of the experience. Music is subjective to taste, like it or don't. "Liking Metal is a mental illness" is that your professional opinion Doctor? It doesn't get any more flagrantly stupid then that. Scizophrenia is a mental illness, musical taste is not. As far as technical proficiency being compared to adding more pages to a book. More pages in a book is only better if it improves on the story. Sometimes less is more but to say that it is never a better thing is just ignorant. The only point in this person writing this was to make himself feel better. He would rather run his mouth and piss off immature teenagers so he can show how mentally superior he is. The "retarded" comments he receives from these youths are no indication of who they will become. Thats part of being young, you make mistakes and hopefully learn from them. It's kinda strange for a doctor to fill his free time insulting these people. Its a self serving and narcissistic column written to feed this persons ego. Take it for what it is I had a few laughs.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:11 am

I have to say, I think the "Your Band Sucks" section of Something Awful has some brilliant satire in it. Check out the "How To Fake It" guide to being a rock snob, for instance. And "The Field Guide to North American Hipsters" is so hilariously spot-on, I don't know how any genuine music fan can help but laugh when they read it.

If you take it for what it is, a giant tongue-in-cheek satire that pokes fun at music fans in general, it's great.
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:29 pm

I never got into metal because it was never pleasant.

"I haven’t heard any metal band isn’t composed of stunted adolescence, half-assed rebellion, tongue-in-cheek stupidity, masturbatory pap, tuneless dirge, juvenile morbidity, retarded sexuality, or some nauseating combination of those elements"

The above i can agree with. The gist of my post was largely to get the above portion refuted the most.

I've made up some of my own genres when it comes to it. The "hopeless" style...which is when a song is about how things are bad and that you can't change it. The "i'm cool because i kill" style..which is self-explanatory and the "fantasy" type..in which medieval things are talked about to the point that you'd wonder why they're singing rather than rollin' the dice.

It just seems that metal (like rap) is geared mostly towards teens who're angry at their parents and society..or toward people so pessimistic that they'd rather not hear a single thing that could pertain to happiness.

Could you give me a list of songs that don't do any of the things that i've mentioned disliking? I'm open to broadening my horizons.

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Postby Megalodon » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:23 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I never got into metal because it was never pleasant.

"I haven’t heard any metal band isn’t composed of stunted adolescence, half-assed rebellion, tongue-in-cheek stupidity, masturbatory pap, tuneless dirge, juvenile morbidity, retarded sexuality, or some nauseating combination of those elements"

The above i can agree with. The gist of my post was largely to get the above portion refuted the most.

I've made up some of my own genres when it comes to it. The "hopeless" style...which is when a song is about how things are bad and that you can't change it. The "i'm cool because i kill" style..which is self-explanatory and the "fantasy" type..in which medieval things are talked about to the point that you'd wonder why they're singing rather than rollin' the dice.

It just seems that metal (like rap) is geared mostly towards teens who're angry at their parents and society..or toward people so pessimistic that they'd rather not hear a single thing that could pertain to happiness.

Could you give me a list of songs that don't do any of the things that i've mentioned disliking? I'm open to broadening my horizons.



Someone else will have to help you in your search. If you havent heard something in Metal you like yet based on chance alone, you probably arent going to. It is possible though that somebody else here who does have broader horizons then me can help you. Metal for the most part by definition has been inherently angry and not necessarily happy. If you are looking for upbeat you're probably not going to find it here. You can try Hatebreed they for the most part sing about picking yourself up, inner strength, stuff like that. Other then that I don't know what to tell you. Hopefully somebody else posts on this.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:07 pm

You can try Hatebreed they for the most part sing about picking yourself up, inner strength, stuff like that.


That's sort of ironic, given the name of their band, haha.
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Postby exigence » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:51 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

It just seems that metal (like rap) is geared mostly towards teens who're angry at their parents and society..or toward people so pessimistic that they'd rather not hear a single thing that could pertain to happiness.


NEVER, Never compare metal to rap, please just dont do it ok. I will admint there are alot of metal bands that really suck but that goes for any genre, there is a suprising ammount of depth to metal that most people miss.
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Postby Ozone » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:31 am

Hatebreed, hometown boys o' mine, like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage and All That Remains xD

Hatebreed really is about living through adversity and has generally has a really positive tone to their lyrics. I would suggest any of the above bands if you're looking for non-stupid metal.
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Postby Kizyr » Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:58 am

exigence wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:

It just seems that metal (like rap) is geared mostly towards teens who're angry at their parents and society..or toward people so pessimistic that they'd rather not hear a single thing that could pertain to happiness.


NEVER, Never compare metal to rap, please just dont do it ok. I will admint there are alot of metal bands that really suck but that goes for any genre, there is a suprising ammount of depth to metal that most people miss.


There's a lot of rap that's very, very good and profound as well. As with most genres, what's in the mainstream is typically of pretty poor quality, and it can be hard to find the gems if all you're listening to is what makes money and sells records.

Considering all the flak that metal gets as a genre, I'm sure you understand why it's unfair to write off an entire genre of music.

Personally, my favorite rap artist isn't an American group, it's a French group named Sniper. There're a lot of good French and Arab artists too that're really great, plus, of course, American and Latino artists. KF
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Postby exigence » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:01 am

the only rap iv ever been able to get into is Tupac but i do like alot of old skool hip hop.
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Postby Ozone » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:38 am

I think you should look into hip hop acts like Blue Scholars, Jedi Mind Tricks and Immortal Technique.
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:08 pm

Ozone wrote:Hatebreed, hometown boys o' mine, like Shadows Fall, Killswitch Engage and All That Remains xD

Hatebreed really is about living through adversity and has generally has a really positive tone to their lyrics. I would suggest any of the above bands if you're looking for non-stupid metal.


I'll check these out when i can. Also, i generally think the whole "don't listen to mainstream" thing stems from the general desire to be different. In several genres i like a lot of the popular stuff. I like a lot of unpopular stuff, as well.

Not sayin' this is your behavior, just that i won't close off a general group so easily.

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Postby DragonmasterAndy » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:56 pm

Those bands are all Metalcore(Where a lot of the stereotypes about crappy metal come from)..and Hatebreed are a nu-hardcore act. They're not Metal. Please, if you must label things, do it right. :lol:

I suggest not listening to any of those bands, but to each his own.(even though Shadows Fall has talent, they just need to use it in a better way)


Metal with real depth does not come from Metalcore.....


Not all mainstream Metal is crap. Hell, Iron Maiden are awesome. Megadeth have even gotten a bit of popularity these days. Generally, mainstream Metal is just crap, and a lot of it ISN'T actually Metal..... :lol:

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Postby Werefrog » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:39 am

DragonmasterAndy wrote:Those bands are all Metalcore(Where a lot of the stereotypes about crappy metal come from)..and Hatebreed are a nu-hardcore act. They're not Metal. Please, if you must label things, do it right. :lol:


I think nearly everyone has a different way of putting music into genres.

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Postby DragonmasterAndy » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:00 am

It's pretty much set in stone what a genre is, and what a band is or isn't...

Some people just don't know the difference.

It's jsut like how Rock and Metal aren't the same thing like I've heard some peopl say. They say Metal's just revved up Hard Rock. It isn't. Rock is based on 12 bar blues, and Metal is based off of Blues and Classical music, as well as Jazz at times.

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Postby Werefrog » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:25 am

DragonmasterAndy wrote:It's pretty much set in stone what a genre is, and what a band is or isn't...


No, genres are fluid as well as the bands that play bands. I can't really prove that genres are fluid as that's fairly abstract, but I can prove that artists are not confined to one single genre. The proof of that latter is that one artists can be involved in many different genres. I think David Bowie is one of the best examples I can present for this.

Personally, I don't like the concept of putting things into genres and think that eventually the lines between genres will fade away.

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Postby DragonmasterAndy » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:38 am

Werefrog wrote:
DragonmasterAndy wrote:It's pretty much set in stone what a genre is, and what a band is or isn't...


No, genres are fluid as well as the bands that play bands. I can't really prove that genres are fluid as that's fairly abstract, but I can prove that artists are not confined to one single genre. The proof of that latter is that one artists can be involved in many different genres. I think David Bowie is one of the best examples I can present for this.

Personally, I don't like the concept of putting things into genres and think that eventually the lines between genres will fade away.


Bands can be involved in other genres, yes. That's true, but it doesn't change the base of the band. You can't just label a band whatever you want(labels get stupid, but I'm proving a point) and have it be right. Shadows Fall are not Death Metal, while Unleashed are, and vice-versa.


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