The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

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LunarRaptor
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The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:49 am

"All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf the Gray

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:18 am

And I just remembered that it is a private part of that forum, sorry:

first post:

A few days ago wikileaks released the secret negotiated draft text for the entire TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) Intellectual Property Rights Chapter. The treaty which is currently being negotiated behind closed doors would affect most aspects of economic life, including intellectual property law (a major concern for many members here), macroeconomic policy, trade policy, and several matters that probably should not be in an economic treaty.

Among the highlights of the proposal:

* Pharmaceutical manufacturers could extend and widen their patents on drugs and medicines - lessening the ability to market generic products.

* New patents could be issued for 'new uses' of a drug. So, for example, if a medicine was about to have its patent expire (and thus generic drugs could then be allowed) the manufacturer could 'find' a new use for the drug and get an entirely new patent.

* There are provisions for data-exclusivity, so a generic drug maker who is looking for data to back up the usefulness of a preexisting drug will be unable to use the original manufacturers data - they will have to perform its own research which will incur huge costs and take years.

* There are provisions allowing the outright patenting of plants and animals.

* There are provisions allowing the patenting of medical and surgical procedures. This is something that medical societies have opposed for a long time.

* Oh, and guess where some of CISPA's anti-piracy provisions have found a new home? That is right, this proposed treaty.

Now obviously this is just a proposal at this point and there is no guarantee that the resulting treaty will have all of these provisions. But that fact that the negotiations are happening in secret, with even the Australian Parliament being kept in the dark on the details, is very worrying. If this is the sort of thing they are negotiating on the intellectual property side of things, then what are they negotiating in terms of trade policy? No one except for the negotiators knows the answer to that question.

Links: http://wikileaks.org/tpp/,

Second Post:

I have been skimming through the text, which is rather difficult as it is 96 pages long, and I just found this rather disturbing provision in the proposal. This provision would require internet service providers to track and report Internationally the personal details of suspected violators. Not confirmed violators. Suspected violators.

If this is just the extent of the provisions in the intellectual property chapter, then how massive are the other 38 chapters to the proposed treaty? The administration in the United States is attempting to have this bill passed via 'fast-track' treaty ratification (where there are no filibusters and the treaty is brought to a vote without debate) how then are these hundreds of pages of provisions to be analyzed and scrutinized?

To give you an example of the legalize found in this proposal, I have included the provision that I mentioned earlier, which would require the storage of personal information upon any suspected violator of copyrighted material:

...

In meeting the obligations of Article QQ.I.1.3(b)(ix), each Party shall adopt or maintain requirements for: (a) effective written notice to service providers with respect to materials that are claimed to be infringing, and (b) effective written counter-notification by those whose material is removed or disabled and who claim that it was disabled through mistake or misidentification, as set forth in this letter. Effective written notice means notice that substantially complies with the elements listed in section (a) of this letter, and effective written counter-notification means counter-notification that substantially complies with the elements listed in section (b) of this letter.

(a) Effective Written Notice, by a Copyright289 Owner or Person Authorized to Act

on Behalf of an Owner of an Exclusive Right, to a Service Provider's Publicly Designated Representative

In order for a notice to a service provider to comply with the relevant requirements set out in Article QQ.I.1.3(b)(ix), that notice must be a written communication, which may be provided electronically, that includes substantially the following:

the identity, address, telephone number, and electronic mail address of the complaining party (or its authorized agent);

information reasonably sufficient to enable the service provider to identify the copyrighted work(s) claimed to have been infringed;

3. information reasonably sufficient to permit the service provider to identify and locate the material residing on a system or network controlled or operated by it or for it that is claimed to be infringing, or to be the subject of infringing activity, and that is to be removed, or access to which is to be disabled;

a statement that the complaining party has a good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law;

a statement that the information in the notice is accurate;

a statement with sufficient indicia of reliability (such as a statement under penalty of perjury or equivalent legal sanctions) that the complaining party is the holder of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed, or is authorized to act on the owner's behalf; and

the signature of the person giving notice.

(b) Effective Written Counter-Notification by a Subscriber Whose Material Was Removed or Disabled as a Result of Mistake or Misidentification of Material

In order for a counter-notification to a service provider to comply with the relevant requirements set out in Article QQ.I.1.3.(b)(ix), that counter-notification must be a written communication, which may be provided electronically, that includes substantially the following:

the identity, address, and telephone number of the subscriber;

the identity of the material that has been removed or to which access has been disabled;

the location at which the material appeared before it was removed or access to it was disabled;

a statement with sufficient indicia of reliability (such as a statement under penalty of perjury or equivalent legal sanctions) that the subscriber has a good faith belief that the material was removed or disabled as a result of mistake or misidentification of the material;

a statement that the subscriber agrees to be subject to orders of any court that has jurisdiction over the place where the subscriber's address is located, or, if that address is located outside the Party's territory, any other court with jurisdiction over any place in the Party's territory where the service provider may be found, and in which a copyright infringement suit could be brought with respect to the alleged infringement;

a statement that the subscriber will accept service of process in any such suit; and

the signature of the subscriber.

The latest:

Talks between the twelve nations are going on in Singapore.
Latest post:

There has been a rather significant leak from the Salt Lake City talks from a few weeks ago. Details can be found here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/08/tpp-trade-agreement_n_4409211.html. Basically, the leaked document confirms that significant disagreements remain between the negotiating parties, with the United States being rather inflexible in its demands. Two major points that the US negotiators are unwilling to budge on is on intellectual property (which has already been mentioned in this topic) and the foreign trade court (where a foreign court of corporate jurists would be able to impose sanctions on countries for violating this trade agreement - a shocking abrogation of national sovereignty.) The US negotiators have also reintroduced a proposal that was universally rejected and dropped earlier - that would hamper government health services from negotiating lower drug prices with pharmaceutical companies. It seems less like the US is negotiating and more like it is dictating terms to the other countries. A summation of the major points of agreement and disagreement between the countries can be found on the Huffington Post.
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TempestOne

Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby TempestOne » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:03 am

I think you stumbled upon a really old, old article that keeps getting circulated around the internet 'cause I swear I've read that exact same thing numerous times early, early on during AOL, even. 8-)

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby ilovemyguitar » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:03 am

You know, I've been reading about this recently, and I have a bit of a conspiracy theory about it.

For the last two summers Western pop culture has had studio-backed hits from singers from that region. The 2013 song was "Royals," a song by a teenager from New Zealand. In 2012 it was "Somebody That I Used to Know," a song by an Australian singer featuring a singer from New Zealand.

Corporate pop music is always about money. I can easily list off a bunch of music acts that are quite similar to these music acts, but aren't getting the same corporate push. I think these songs were pushed out to Western media in order to flex our muscle and show the legislators from the Pacific Islands how much money we're able to generate through our cultural influence, thus demonstrating what we can do for a nation willing to play ball with us.

Zola Jesus and Sky Ferreira are particularly obvious examples. Their success wouldn't create as much political influence for US interests as Lorde or Gotye, so large-scale Western media success hasn't happened for them. (Seriously, listen to Zola Jesus's "Night" and ask yourself why "Royals" is so damn special.)
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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:57 pm

This THING has just been reintroduced to the floor. If you value places like LunarNet, having paychecks good enough to live off of, and having environmental protection laws, I'd get on the phone with my representative if I were you.
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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Sat May 30, 2015 5:38 am

This is going into the House on June 2nd. I'm not kidding when I say they might shut down places like LunarNet for having copyrighted content. Contact your House Representatives before it is too late.
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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Sonic# » Sat May 30, 2015 2:58 pm

I'm not kidding when I say they might shut down places like LunarNet for having copyrighted content.


I see no evidence of that. How does the treaty disrupt present standards for fair use? And how does that happen to the extent that having images taken from a work and used for a noncommercial purpose is forbidden?
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Leo » Sat May 30, 2015 3:46 pm

Considering that this site is the official site for Dragon Song, I would assume LunarNet has a friendship/relationship of sorts with Game Arts and would get left alone in the ordeal.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Sat May 30, 2015 6:15 pm

I wouldn't put anything past these people, but even if this site is left alone, there are still a ton of other people online who will suffer dearly for no good reason at all if this passes. Not to mention that workers, seniors, and millions of others who wil be screwed by this thing.
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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Arlia » Sat May 30, 2015 8:33 pm

Obama and his clowns have to be the worst government model in the history of the US. I mean, Hitler was a despicable man, but he meant to IMPROVE his country. These idiots are destroying the ground they stand on.

I wouldn't like to argue about it, but I will support LunarRaptor if he wants to point out these things to his friends. If he wants something, these days, that's how you fight for it.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Imperial Knight » Sat May 30, 2015 10:01 pm

Arlia wrote:Obama and his clowns have to be the worst government model in the history of the US. I mean, Hitler was a despicable man, but he meant to IMPROVE his country. These idiots are destroying the ground they stand on.

I wouldn't like to argue about it, but I will support LunarRaptor if he wants to point out these things to his friends. If he wants something, these days, that's how you fight for it.


Do you honestly mean to imply that President Obama doesn't want to improve his country?

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Leo » Sat May 30, 2015 10:08 pm

Imperial Knight wrote:Do you honestly mean to imply that President Obama doesn't want to improve his country?


That's the way it seems sometimes. Being a great public speaker is great at first but people begin to wise up when they don't see results and realize it's a bunch of talk.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Imperial Knight » Sat May 30, 2015 10:12 pm

Leo wrote:
Imperial Knight wrote:Do you honestly mean to imply that President Obama doesn't want to improve his country?


That's the way it seems sometimes. Being a great public speaker is great at first but people begin to wise up when they don't see results and realize it's a bunch of talk.


Well, I don't really want to get into a big political debate here but suffice it to say I disagree with your assessment of President Obama's job performance.

Really my larger point is that every president has wanted to improve the country. Some may have had bad ideas or been incompetent administrators but it's not like any of them woke up each morning thinking "how can I harm the country today?" To suggest otherwise only serves to further the problem of overheated political rhetoric.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Arlia » Sat May 30, 2015 11:20 pm

You can't blame only one man; he wouldn't be able to get away with what he's trying to without help. Don't forget that. But this Partnership in question; there are a lot of things wrong with just going behind the backs of your citizens, not saying anything, and demanding a foothold into other nation's economies. If this were a good idea, they wouldn't have to hide it. They'd announced it publicly, and gotten brownie points for it; politicians live to look good.

Also, Obamacare is ridiculous, everyone hates him for it; the border/amnesty crisis* is getting out of control; and he doesn't care about his public- he wants himself and his family to be safe, and the other 1% of people that can afford to be exempt to what he's putting everyone else through. He has completely sold-out his people to giant corporate, and the super rich (and maybe others, too.) He's proven that over and over again. He's a bad man.
*Not about to get into it here.

In answer to "How can I harm my country today", it's not about direct harm. It's about his own selfish ideas being met (the political buzzword is "agenda"), and not wanting to be the president of the United States, but wanting to be someone who makes all the rules. Not someone you want in charge.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Imperial Knight » Sun May 31, 2015 12:12 am

I've been on the internet a long time. Long enough to see what direction this thread is heading and it's nowhere good. Not to mention it's veering into off topic territory. I'm going to bow out of this one.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Arlia » Sun May 31, 2015 12:38 am

Well, I was only answering a question because you asked, while treading as lightly as I could. Sorry if I said something wrong. Politics is never easy, and even experts have a hard time.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Imperial Knight » Sun May 31, 2015 12:45 am

Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I was assigning blame or anything. Honestly I think I bear as much responsibility as anyone for the direction this thread started going. It's just that I'm not really interested in what is likely to become a heated political debate among several participants that veers away from the purpose of this thread. I've been in many such debates before and came to the conclusion that they're not worth the energy.

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Sonic# » Sun May 31, 2015 4:17 am

LunarRaptor wrote:I wouldn't put anything past these people, but even if this site is left alone, there are still a ton of other people online who will suffer dearly for no good reason at all if this passes. Not to mention that workers, seniors, and millions of others who wil be screwed by this thing.


So you have no evidence for your claims.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby LunarRaptor » Sun May 31, 2015 4:25 am

Wikileaks in the original post. Check it out.
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Re: The Trans-Pacific Partnership Treaty

Postby Sonic# » Sun May 31, 2015 3:52 pm

I don't see any evidence of what you claim:

I'm not kidding when I say they might shut down places like LunarNet for having copyrighted content.


If you make a claim, you need to support it. How do current drafts of the TPP impact standards of fair use in such a way that LunarNet would be considered to be infringing on GameArts's IP?
Sonic#

"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time


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