Teen parents.

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:02 pm

Jenner wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:PLEASE elaborate.


Being the foremost expert on Meg, as I am currently writing her tell-all biography for when she becomes famous. I shall regale you with the Legend of Meagan.


THAT WAS ALL TRUE. ALL THAT FOLLOWS IS FALSE.

it was actually more than a year, for one. and this is going to be hella long--fair warning.

i lost my day job in 2007. it wasn't entirely unexpected, as i worked as a temp webdesigner for the local school system, and the fued between the superintendent and the mayor had been public for awhile. i had tried to find other work, but only managed to land one interview, which went badly the moment the interviewing panel saw my baby face and asked if i knew what a grown up position i was applying for.

in any case, when the mayor cut the school system's funding, and they started firing all non-essential employees, i was still shocked. i was also more or less out of time--i had only a couple of days until the time frame in which i could cancel my lease ended, and i'd be stuck with another year of rent, and no job. my options were this: keep the apartment and scramble to find enough work to pay rent with (an option made harder by the fact i had no car, and would either need one full-time job that paid 10/hr, or two jobs that paid less), or, say screw the apartment (and also my much-coveted freedom/independence), couch-hop, and accept a comics-job from a company i had never heard of.

the second choice fell into my lap when this company stumbled across a webcomic i had started in my free time. i was an animation major. when 2D animation when kaputz in the US, i turned to comics (which is a superior medium for creators anyway--much more control), and poured my passion into that. after talking it over with my fiance and family, i decided to take option #2.

this was not the easier option. it was just the option with more of a future.

anyway, after awhile of being separated from my city, my fiance, and all manner of independence (and feeling like a worthless moocher, and one especially ugly fight with the future in-laws), i managed to find a reasonably priced efficiency apartment for the fiance and i on the southside of richmond.

turned out to be the ghetto. the first three months there, i was pretty scared to go anywhere or do anything. we were ground floor, and when mom saw the place, she gasped and said "meg, my cousin was raped in a ground floor apartment." thanks mom. there were gunshots at night, someone's car was set on fire in the parking lot, the apartment above ours had its windows busted out one night--it just wasn't good. the comics thing wasn't going so well either. the script was a month late, none of my art pleased them, etc etc. and, on top of that, my fiance--now husband--was killing himself doing construction. he would work all day, come home, and sleep until he had to go again the next day. and he was wholly and beyond supportive of this comics thing, but that did nothing to quell the overwhelming guilt i felt at him having to work so hard to support us. not to mention the loneliness.

anyway. i think i had something resembling a breakdown one day--a combination of fear, stress, and guilt. the next day, i made myself go outside and get acquainted with my neighborhood. and the day after that. and the day after that. i found the local vet for our cat. i found a used books/comics shop down the street. i found the bank.

then one night, the upstairs neighbor was being louder than usual. thump thump. thump. crash. my husband looks up and asks "what is that?"
"Oh, you know. child abuse. animal abuse. spousal abuse." i joked.

and then we heard a scream. so, now you know why i'm going to hell.

anyway, i panicked, threw my (6foot tall built like a tank) husband my phone, and pulled on my sneakers to go upstairs myself (i'm 4'11 and squishy) to find out what apartment number it was (we were 6, they were above ours so obviously they were 106, but remember, i'm panicking and my brain isn't working).

the door is cracked open. and out stumbles a woman only dressed in a robe. she has bruises on her neck, and she's gasping. her toddler peeks out after. her attacker--her ex, and the father of her child--has already left.

i end up staying the night with her so she'll feel safe. the cops come, take a report, and leave. the ex comes back--my husband and i send him off again, and change the locks on her door.

the rest of our year there is like this. i babysit her son for free, as she has very little money. the landlords send her a letter telling her if she ever screams again, they will throw her and her son out on the street. bright side: now that her ex has a known and documented history of abuse, she can petition the court for sole custody of their son (and never have to see him again).

my grandfather, who was essentially my father figure, and my favorite person, kills himself. my mother finds the body. she'll be wreck for more than a year.

this makes the comics company flip their -Dragon Diamond-, convinced i cannot finish the book. so, instead of mourning, i work. they respond by taking me off of the project and handing it to someone else for the last bit--screwing me out of a 4th of the promised pay. which is a lot, when you make as little as i do. the person who finishes the book does an atrocious job. the combination of all said BS sends me into a serious depression. it'll be half a year before i can draw again, but, my simple availability for work gets around, and more comics work falls into my lap.

my husband attempts grad school, but is disgusted by the politics and quits. all other attempts at decent work and pay fall through.

when the year comes to an end, and we're giving the option of renewing, we look at our other options, decide we'd be healthier and happier if we stop paying for health insurance and use that money to GTFO.

i bought my neighbor a copy of barack obama's autobio, wrote a cheesy-tho-heartfelt message in the front, and fled.

since then, things have been better, but wobbly. rent elsewhere here has shot up obscenely--we simply can't afford to rent outside the ghetto anymore. so. one day i had a stupidly obvious idea: foreclosed homes. they are ridiculously cheap. rough shape, but at 30k, very worth it. and as it happens, in my city there are tons of them. it didn't occur to me to ask why so many remained, when people obviously still needed houses. 4 months and three denied bids later, we learned that banks only want cash for those houses, not loans. during this time, the sublease we had ended, and we moved again.

a friend of mine, living in the house of her sister (also a friend of mine), committed suicide. we're living in her room, rent-free, until we get the house mess sorted. because our friends are saints (and desperately need to think of this room as being something beside their sister's death bed). and life wasn't warped enough yet.

anyway, my husband's parents intervened when they learned we needed cash for a bid. they should close on a house this month. then we're going to renovate, buy the house from them, rent out a room for extra money, and wait for life to stop sucking.

i'm fairly positive the suck will cease immediately. tho, at this point, my husband is expecting to find a secret black mold room or something in the new house.

TL;DR VERSION:
THINGS SUCKED, AND THEN WE COMBINED OUR SUCK WITH OTHER PEOPLES' SUCK TO CANCEL THE SUCK OUT.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Jenner » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:27 pm

meg wrote:i'm fairly positive the suck will cease immediately. tho, at this point, my husband is expecting to find a secret black mold room or something in the new house.


At least it's black mold and not black pudding or green slime.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:39 am

Wow. That all sucks except for the hopeful part at the end. Also suicide is retarded.

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:15 am

well, in my grandfather's case, it was actually quite understandable.

but a few things must be understood about his history. first, he was a military man. he flew planes through hurricanes. he saw two wars. he was fiercely independent.

he also watched his wife die of cancer about 14 years prior, and had recently been diagnosed with colon cancer. my mother, who i've mentioned previously as having been messed up medically for 10 years, would do anything for her father, my grandfather. anything. she's still recovering from her own medical stuff--she's on permanent, partial disability. and he's having to watch her run herself sick again trying to make him well, and at the same time cope with the knowledge that if the cancer comes back (they removed a third of his colon to get rid of it), he will lose all independence, all dignity, and likely also his life. and it will be a very ugly, very painful death.

so, that i understand. i don't even regard it as tragic, really. he was 80. he lived and died as he chose.

the girl, though. that was awful. basically, this girl had ONE boyfriend in her whole life. ten years of on-and-off dating, from the time they were teenagers, to her death. she had moved into her sister's house because he had broken up with her, and she needed to sort out her life and goals. her sister asked me (begged me. was crying as she explained how worried she was over her baby sister) to make friends with her, as i was the one she seemed to like most at parties.

we hung out a few times. she was very sweet, very geeky. then the boy reappeared, said he'd missed her, and asked her back into his life. she was ecstatic.

shortly thereafter, he changed his mind.

and she just... decided she was done, i guess. i don't think she even left a note.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby GhaleonOne » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:37 am

and she just... decided she was done, i guess. i don't think she even left a note.


Sometimes you just can't cope with it. It really sucks, but I think some people who look down on a person who's commited suicide can't understand the feelings that person is going through at the time. Some people just can't cope with life. I'm not saying suicide is right. It is selfish, because it hurts your family and friends immensely, but sometimes life deals the wrong person a raw deal at the absolute worst possibly moment. I dunno... I've just always hated it when people are so quick to hate on a person who has commited or attempted to commit suicide.

(this was a blanket statement and not directed at anyone, BTW)
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:47 am

Over a dude? LOL WOW! She could have just decided to cry a lot or eat in excess or both.

I figured it would be a bad home life or something.

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Jenner » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:15 am

GhaleonOne wrote:
and she just... decided she was done, i guess. i don't think she even left a note.


Sometimes you just can't cope with it. It really sucks, but I think some people who look down on a person who's commited suicide can't understand the feelings that person is going through at the time. Some people just can't cope with life. I'm not saying suicide is right. It is selfish, because it hurts your family and friends immensely, but sometimes life deals the wrong person a raw deal at the absolute worst possibly moment. I dunno... I've just always hated it when people are so quick to hate on a person who has commited or attempted to commit suicide.

(this was a blanket statement and not directed at anyone, BTW)



Especially considering how we lost Coley. I still miss her...
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:45 am

Ten years of relationship would practically qualify as home life.

And if she'd cried a lot or eaten a lot there would have been some jackass saying LOL WOW she should have just killed herself. Because the important thing is to make sure she's properly scorned, laughed at, and held in contempt, else those uppity girls might think they're entitled to be treated as human beings or something. :roll:

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:34 am

Except I don't place suicide above gluttony and crying. The important thing is staying alive (whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother). After you're dead, it doesn't matter if you're ridiculed or not.

I like how you add "else those uppity girls might think they're entitled to be treated as human beings or something." As if I wouldn't hold the same opinion about a man who kills himself.

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Jenner » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:53 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Except I don't place suicide above gluttony and crying. The important thing is staying alive (whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother). After you're dead, it doesn't matter if you're ridiculed or not.

I like how you add "else those uppity girls might think they're entitled to be treated as human beings or something." As if I wouldn't hold the same opinion about a man who kills himself.



I spent 5 years of my life working for a suicide prevention board on the internet, talking with people who wanted to die. Most of them were women, all of them had similar stories. I myself tried to commit suicide when I was young, I still have the scar on my wrist. Am I weak? Am I pathetic? All of the desperate tragic girls on that message board were caught up in the agony of hard times, they were alone, they had no one. We lost about 9 girls in those five years, I always think I could have done more to save them. None of them were as dispicable as you think, but it's easy to disregard someone you never knew, someone who is now dead. The insensitivity. A life is a life, a loss is a loss...

Even after all these years, the one girl I regret the most not saving is Coley.

B_G... You know who I blamed when Coley killed herself? Myself. I knew she was dangerous, I had called her local police on her once before and stopped her from killing herself. I saved her then, but I didn't listen this time. I still blame myself, all the warning signs were there. I did nothing, and now she's gone. We were close, she and I were bonded. We used to rampage about ACO getting our threads deleted by prisses and now she's gone. Every year, around January, I feel empty. I love... loved Coley. Not a day goes by that I don't wish I'd made the call. But, Coley wasn't a coward, she wasn't weak, she wasn't pathetic.

I was.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:06 pm

Blaming yourself or anyone other than the person who committed suicide is a bit ridiculous.

Could you have done more? Possibly. Who really gives the FULL 100% ever?

Are you weak? Are you pathetic? No. I'd definitely say you were at the suicidal point in your life and the same applies to Coley. She was old enough that it wasn't anyone's place to babysit her. Suicide is the best proof that you can't save people from themselves. They'll eventually do what you don't want them to.

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:41 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I figured it would be a bad home life or something.


i'm sure that figured it into how she was, if not her immediate reasons. the things her own father printed in memoriam in the -Fatal Hopper- newspaper about her after she died were -Fatal Hopper- awful.

the thing is, after 10 years of being jerked around by the guy she was hopelessly in love with, she'd probably tried all the standards of coping with grief. crying only helps to a point. eating doesn't help at all. personally, i wish she'd discarded him in high school. i met the guy all of once, and i really really didn't care for him. she deserved much better, although she obviously didn't believe so. he didn't wear the honorable popped collar of douche, but he was the nerd equivalent.

and jenner--you couldn't save coley from the things that were troubling her. she got dealt a bad hand and was determined to control it the only way she could.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:51 pm

meg wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I figured it would be a bad home life or something.


i'm sure that figured it into how she was, if not her immediate reasons. the things her own father printed in memoriam in the -Fatal Hopper- newspaper about her after she died were -Fatal Hopper- awful.

the thing is, after 10 years of being jerked around by the guy she was hopelessly in love with, she'd probably tried all the standards of coping with grief. crying only helps to a point. eating doesn't help at all. personally, i wish she'd discarded him in high school. i met the guy all of once, and i really really didn't care for him. she deserved much better, although she obviously didn't believe so. he didn't wear the honorable popped collar of douche, but he was the nerd equivalent.

and jenner--you couldn't save coley from the things that were troubling her. she got dealt a bad hand and was determined to control it the only way she could.


EVERY friend has to pull the "You aren't good enough for her." crap. It's damn near protocol. That's quite a judgment to make based on a single meeting. Would your views be the same if Coley never killed herself over it?

And what did her father say?

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:39 pm

coley is not the friend in question.

coley had painful medical issues and mounting associated debt. i have never met coley in person. jenner has. but, right before she killed herself, she left a livejournal entry joking--or so we thought--about how smart her doctor was to prescribe so many sleeping pills to a suicidal girl. coley also killed herself a few years ago, not this past summer.

this particular friend, who i have not named so as to avoid this thread popping up on the google under her name, had a boyfriend who felt the best way to make friends with me was to stare at my tits and make comments on how hot the barista was. i personally would not date a guy so determined to be a jackass, nor would i tolerate being yanked around for 10 years. so naturally, i'm not inclined to believe she deserves him. it may be cliched, but it's true.

as to what exactly her father said, i don't have the obit on hand (and can't seem to find it online. her name is less unique than i thought), but, it pissed the hell out of her mother and sisters.

edit: also--
Would your views be the same if [friend] never killed herself over it?


yes they would.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:00 pm

Was it an insulting perspective of who she was or just him bringing up true things that weren't appropriate for the situation?

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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:10 pm

insulting perspective. the girl just didn't do a hell of a lot that was inappropriate (besides wearing cat-ears, but that's what anime nerds do, really). seriously. all she did was study. she had several college degrees (on scholarship, though none of them were helping her find any relevant work, but i think i recall reading that only 20% of college grads were finding relevant work anymore). at one point she studied abroad in italy. she wasn't especially social--the reason she and i hit it off was chiefly because neither of us did well at parties, and both of us made terribly nerdy jokes. she filled sketchbooks with doodles of dragons and wizards and such.

she was just a dork. that's all.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby phyco126 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:32 pm

How easy it is to condem someone for commiting suicide. It is easy for everyone to say "Their idiots" or "Fine, we didn't need them anyway" or "The retards just wanted attention." Its so easy to say what WE would do. But thats because it is US we are talking about, not the other person. When you can truely empathize with someone else with what they are feeling and the emotions and baggage they carry, you would crumble just as easily. Remember, most things happen to our brain not just because we get tired of trying to deal with life, but because our brains simply aren't wired to handle it. If you had the same brain, it is very possible you would do the same exact thing they did.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby meg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:06 pm

well, when it comes to suicide--yes, it can be selfish. but considering that the person most affected by the decision is the one who's dying, i do not judge.

i will intervene when possible. i will do my best to convince them to live. if there's a faulty wire in their brain, i will beg them to take their meds and seek therapy. but in the end, it's their life. their circumstances. their mind. i can guess at the contents, but i can't truly know.

people break in strange ways.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby Jenner » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:41 pm

meg wrote:well, when it comes to suicide--yes, it can be selfish. but considering that the person most affected by the decision is the one who's dying, i do not judge.

i will intervene when possible. i will do my best to convince them to live. if there's a faulty wire in their brain, i will beg them to take their meds and seek therapy. but in the end, it's their life. their circumstances. their mind. i can guess at the contents, but i can't truly know.

people break in strange ways.


Yeh, Meg personally has saved my life on more than one occasion. I still sometimes wonder if it's worth bothering to go through the motions. But, I have someone to live for so even though it's a forced existence, I'm still finding moments of happiness and occasionally enjoying myself.
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Re: Teen parents.

Postby phyco126 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:57 pm

I hate it when people call suicidals selfish. How is it selfish? Isn't it the other way around? I think it is more selfish to force people to live a miserable broken life for the sake of being able to keep them around for our own needs. Mother is selfish because she commited suicide, or perhaps am I selfish because I want her to be around so I have her to myself, or have access to her when I need something?* You know, its like I have the gall to say that life is worth living, so live damnit, because I demand your company. If you don't, your a selfish bastard. I mean, how dare you take your own life into your hands. I demand you continue your tortured existance for my benefit. I don't know the pain you are going through, so to hell with your feelings. They aren't nearly as important as how I will feel once you are gone. Yeah, its kinda like that. Instead of trying to prevent suicides by guilt tripping the person (which doesn't always work and may actually back fire) how about taking the time to actually help the person with their problems and try to walk them through them?

*Note, my mother didn't commit suicide, its just an example
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