Gender roles (split from Japanese/English VAs)

[Werefrog]

And women, always, always choose the more masculine men, its biological.

Right, that's why the skinny guys with the tight pants, eye-liner, and straightened hair that can hit notes higher than some women get more ass than a toilet.

Oh, I missed this comment originally. Yeah, this is biologically quite wrong according to several theories. According to Joan Roughgarden, an evolutionary biology, two different "types" of males have evolved, a "masculine" one the typical courtship mating displays, and then there's one called the "sneaker" male which behaves and looks more similar to females. Both males are relatively successful at mating. This theory was developed originally by studying fish, but I feel parts of it still ring true for "higher" species.

[Kizyr]

Edited my earlier post to clarify an answer. KF

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

People need to stop whining about racism. You can't change people and the way they like to think. Just write them off as ignorant and unworthy of your attention and then associate with people who aren't racist.

[Werefrog]

People need to stop whining about racism. You can't change people and the way they like to think. Just write them off as ignorant and unworthy of your attention and then associate with people who aren't racist.

Well... that's another example of white privilege that Kizyr was talking about. Minorities often have to deal with ignorant racists in many important parts of their life such as education and work. They can't just avoid these racists individuals because it would mean losing their chance at an education or their job.

[Kizyr]

People need to stop whining about racism. You can't change people and the way they like to think. Just write them off as ignorant and unworthy of your attention and then associate with people who aren't racist.

Well... that's another example of white privilege that Kizyr was talking about. Minorities often have to deal with ignorant racists in many important parts of their life such as education and work. They can't just avoid these racists individuals because it would mean losing their chance at an education or their job.

There's also the occasional bigot who wants to kill you or sends a bomb threat to your place of worship. Considering that I like to live, it's not enough just to "write them off" and not associate with them. I'd rather they not associate with me. KF

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

Well if it's a fellow student or coworker that you don't have to speak to then you can. If it's a supervisor or something like that then you have to do something. I'm just saying don't give the words any power.

[Kizyr]

Racism isn't the kind of problem that goes away if you ignore it. The popular perception of racists as just jobless rednecks who yell at black people is a small fraction of the kind of racism you'd encounter regularly.

In enclosed environments, like schools or offices (particularly when it's a client's office, and not your own), you encounter racism and bigotry whether you want to or not. It's also the kind that's not generally noticed by people who aren't the actual targets of said bigotry--which is why you'll get whites/males/Christians/anyone in the dominant demographic occasionally thinking that minorities and women are "whining" about racism or sexism.

If it were as simple a problem as being able to ignore it, then it wouldn't still persist at every level of society. It's not the backwoods rednecks complaining about immigrants and blacks that I'm concerned with. It's the people who can affect whether or not I get hired someplace, the people I have to interact with to get a particular job done, the people who send bomb threats to my place of worship, the people who take out ads in the paper claiming I or an organization I'm with supports terrorism, the cop who pulls you over and threatens to call the FBI... I could go on, but this is sufficient. KF

[Aaron]

whites/males/Christians/anyone

Just say WASP cause that certainly doesn't have a negative connotation.

What about positive racism? Wouldn't you agree that is also racist?

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

whites/males/Christians/anyone

Just say WASP cause that certainly doesn't have a negative connotation.

What about positive racism? Wouldn't you agree that is also racist?

Now now! Don't get the Asians rushing in here complaining about being expected to have the latest in technology and people assuming they're really smart and capable.

Funny enough, those same people that you hear complaining also support Affirmative Action.

[meg]

actually, yes, "positive" racism IS also racism. because you're expecting people to fit a mold, rather than simply being people. besides that, you're oversimplifying the asian stereotypes, and ignoring the (many) negative aspects of it. and, asians do complain. but they don't have well known media figures to publicize it. the closest thing to a media event that i can think of, was the letter writing campaign that convinced the makers of "the last avatar" movie (you know, the show set in a mythical other-asia) coming out soon to switch out a few of the lily white actors for some actual ethnicities.

i've read this whole thread, and largely chosen to keep my mouth shut, as i felt kiz and alun were doing a fine job.

but, you guys are pretty well stuck up your own asses.

you seem to think "wasp" has, in some way, some equivalency here. it doesn't. it's like telling a guy with three broken limbs how much worse your splinter is. and until you learn to really put yourself in another person's shoes, you simply won't get it. i was raised with and by your type, and had to have a few illuminating experiences of my own before i got it.

suffice to say, your privilege is showing.

[Sonic#]

whites/males/Christians/anyone

Just say WASP cause that certainly doesn't have a negative connotation.

What about positive racism? Wouldn't you agree that is also racist?

Now now! Don't get the Asians rushing in here complaining about being expected to have the latest in technology and people assuming they're really smart and capable.

Funny enough, those same people that you hear complaining also support Affirmative Action.

How do you propose to end racism? It's deeply culturally ingrained. A simple law or amendment being passed claiming that there will be no favoritism with respect to race or gender does not make racism or sexism go away. As Kizyr said, it still happens with those that hold positions of power. It's difficult to prove that someone was passed up for a job due to racist or sexist considerations, and many don't have the resources for litigation.

So affirmative action isn't an ideal solution, but it balances the odds between applicants of different races. It was founded in reaction to a status quo of deeply ingrained racism, because no better solution could address the problem.

Oh, and it doesn't hurt when I get preferential treatment for being a WASP. I've noticed it all the time. I wonder why, when I walk into an antiques shop with a backpack on, that I'm not made to stash it at the front. I wouldn't object. I wonder why police officers treat me with courtesy, even though I'm scared of them. I wonder why I can walk around my (mostly white) neighborhood in a (mostly black) city, and be greeted cordially by everyone I pass by, even though I'm a relative stranger. But it is racism, and I'd rather that other people had the same advantages and disadvantages than me.

[Kizyr]

Just say WASP cause that certainly doesn't have a negative connotation.

I don't mean only WASPs; I was referring to any group in a situation where that group is dominant. When you're talking about sexism, that refers to males. When you're talking about race, in most places, including America, that refers to whites. When you're talking about religion, in the US that refers to Christians.

meg's comment that complaining about WASP discrimination is like complaining of your splinter to someone with broken limbs is pretty accurate. I don't have anything to add onto that.

What about positive racism? Wouldn't you agree that is also racist?

Now now! Don't get the Asians rushing in here complaining about being expected to have the latest in technology and people assuming they're really smart and capable.

"Positive racism" is a misnomer, since it typically falls into an overall negative stereotype.

The best one is the "Asians are all smart"/"Asians are good at math" one that B_G mentioned. It fits into the stereotype of Asians as the "model minority": hardworking and (most importantly) uncomplaining. Not coincidentally, that's the same description of an ideal slave. The kind of people who hold that stereotype as absolutely true are the kind of people who find nothing wrong with demanding that you do your homework for them, because they think you "enjoy" it, or the kind of people who shove their work onto you because "the Asian guy won't complain".

When you've actually had personal experience in the matter, it becomes obvious that "positive racism" is still clearly racism. That fact is definitely unclear to either of you. (There's also positive racism about one's own race, which is rather the textbook definition of racism. I'm assuming you're not referring to that sort.)

Funny enough, those same people that you hear complaining also support Affirmative Action.

The idea that affirmative action is a form of reverse racism is a basic misunderstanding of what affirmative action is. I'm not going to get off-topic by exploring this subject more, but the way that AA policies are implemented at most companies is geared at ensuring that discrimination in hiring and promotions doesn't take place (e.g., what sort of questions you can't ask, what sort of factors you can't consider, etc.).

There are some places that do take this to mean that you should imply a quota system (this is very rare, but it does happen--at some colleges for instance. I'd also argue that this is a fundamental misunderstanding of AA, but again, that's another subject). Even in those cases, though, Asians in the US and Canada never benefit from a quota system; Asians represent a higher share in higher education than their percentage in the overall population, so quotas do nothing. KF

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

The best one is the "Asians are all smart"/"Asians are good at math" one that B_G mentioned. It fits into the stereotype of Asians as the "model minority": hardworking and (most importantly) uncomplaining.

Asians represent a higher share in higher education than their percentage in the overall population.

[Kizyr]

The best one is the "Asians are all smart"/"Asians are good at math" one that B_G mentioned. It fits into the stereotype of Asians as the "model minority": hardworking and (most importantly) uncomplaining.

Asians represent a higher share in higher education than their percentage in the overall population.

A clear example that you completely miss the point. It should be expected though; after all, you wouldn't have any experience being on the receiving end of racism of any kind, including the negative side of the "model minority" stereotype. It's that kind of action, among others you've demonstrated (such as the "ignore it and it'll go away" belief) that really perpetuates that sort of racism. KF

[Jenner]

I love white male privilege. It's the best thing ever. I don't see why white men have to be wrong about anything. I think all you lesser minorities should shut the -Fatal Hopper- up. White men are the only people whose complaints are worth listening to. You know what this is? This is reverse racism.

Because, y'know, it has to be REVERSE-Racism because Racism is what you do to minorities, and since white men are not a minority it can't be racism.

Now, go back to filling all the unsavory menial job positions the white man doesn't want to be troubled to do, or if applicable, get back in the kitchen.

Racism is -Fatal Hopper- racism. A cultural trend has been established, one group of -Albino Baboon- got the reigns of the wagon and they're not giving them to anyone. There is no way to buck the system because all minorities have been indoctrinated to think everything not-white is bad. It's horrible.

EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.

Racism is real, sexism is real and both will always exist to some extent. A lot of progress has been made towards an even ground but the concept of equality, TRUE EQUALITY will probably never be reached because we need darkness for light to be seen, and also because white men are -Albino Baboon- and all white people should just be rounded up and killed.

THAT WOULD BE THE BEST HAPPY ENDING EVER.

[Aaron]

@Meg
*Golf clap*

you guys are pretty well stuck up your own asses.

I'm the only one offering counter arguments. Everyone else is agreeing with each other. Please don't beat around the bush. Just call me out.

How dare you assume that some racism is worse then others. It's all equally bad. Does that mean you would be fine with people looking down on you as long as your treated the same way economically? Negative comments about a race generally give rise to negative action against a race.

My privilege in what? That I grew up in a latino ghetto? That I make less money then you? That I am struggling to work my way through college? That I'm passed up on jobs with no skill because I lack a certain skin color? Open your eyes. Please.

Now that my rant is over...back on topic...

"Positive racism" is a misnomer, since it typically falls into an overall negative stereotype.

The best one is the "Asians are all smart"/"Asians are good at math" one that B_G mentioned. It fits into the stereotype of Asians as the "model minority": hardworking and (most importantly) uncomplaining. Not coincidentally, that's the same description of an ideal slave. The kind of people who hold that stereotype as absolutely true are the kind of people who find nothing wrong with demanding that you do your homework for them, because they think you "enjoy" it, or the kind of people who shove their work onto you because "the Asian guy won't complain".

When you've actually had personal experience in the matter, it becomes obvious that "positive racism" is still clearly racism. That fact is definitely unclear to either of you. (There's also positive racism about one's own race, which is rather the textbook definition of racism. I'm assuming you're not referring to that sort.)

So basically, it doesn't exist because it's really just racism? So you do agree with me? I think I just heard some angels singing. I think some light from heaven just shot down and parted these cloudy ash filled skies.

Seriously though, although your example is...questionable. But, I agree. I was thinking about this and I realized how some people (any ethnicity) look at people and have compassion for them simply because they are a skin color. Such as a white person being overly attentive to a black customer, as opposed to normal attention given to any other customer. Or how some people think that Latinos deserve better because they work harder then any other ethnicity. (A belief that is extremely racist in itself, you do no deserve better because of ethnicity you deserve better because of merit). Anyway.

Quantifying people into numbers and percentages is racist because you take in no other factors except ethnicity/skin color into account. That's racist. That is exactly what Affirmative Action does. Go figure.

Wanna know how to end racism?

Racism ends with you.

**EDIT**
Lets just be clear about the term "racism" while we all know what it means. I don't agree with it's definition. It strives to separate people into different species. I don't agree that it should be called racism. The term racism itself distances your skin color from another skin color by leveling it. In reality we're talking about ethnocentrism.

Also...this thread just keep changing topics...amazing.

[Jenner]

Racism ends with you.

[Aaron]

what is that? An allusion to a censored "F--- you"?

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

The best one is the "Asians are all smart"/"Asians are good at math" one that B_G mentioned. It fits into the stereotype of Asians as the "model minority": hardworking and (most importantly) uncomplaining.

Asians represent a higher share in higher education than their percentage in the overall population.

A clear example that you completely miss the point. It should be expected though; after all, you wouldn't have any experience being on the receiving end of racism of any kind, including the negative side of the "model minority" stereotype. It's that kind of action, among others you've demonstrated (such as the "ignore it and it'll go away" belief) that really perpetuates that sort of racism. KF

I'm just saying...even though everyone can't fit the bill of a stereotype, many do. They start for a reason. Have you ever heard anyone refer to an Asian person as a "beaner"?

The only thing that can really be done about racism is to make as many neighborhoods as culturally diverse as possible.

[Shin Otaku III]

EVERYTHING SUCKS AND YOU WILL ALL DIE ALONE.

I love you. Marry me.