McCain selects running mate

[CatsWithMatches]

I hope Biden tears her to shreds in the Debates.

I do look forward to Biden systematically dismantling her in the debates.

@Phyco - she's violently pro-life.

Ultimately, I think McCain has selected her to distract his party from his own shortcomings.

[Sonic#]

What exactly is her stance on abortion? O_o

Also, her daughter is in my spotlight solely because of the whole abstinence only eductation.

To be a little more specific (since I was in confusion on her stance of abortion too), it seems like she thinks that every child conceived, be it from a loving marriage, a split up relationship, rape, etc. should be carried to term, because it had to have been conceived for some purpose.

I think the main point of contention against her stance is that most people believe the exception to an abortion should be rape and the endangerment of a mother's life.

[Maru]

@Phyco - she's violently pro-life.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I think the main point of contention against her stance is that most people believe the exception to an abortion should be rape and the endangerment of a mother's life.

It's not even just that. A woman should not be forced by governmental law to carry a child that she does not want; in any situation. Palin wants women who have conceived through love, rape, or incest to birth that child. I would frankly love to see her become pregnant as a result of a sexual crime and say with a straight face that she won't abort the fetus, or claim she wouldn't want to (I shouldn't wish that on anyone, but you understand my point). It's emotionally devastating to look at yourself in the mirror and say, "Hey, I was forced against all my will to have sex, and now I have to look at the evidence every day." (I have so much more to say, but I promised myself I wouldn't rant. xD)

If for anything else, I believe our government should be Pro-Choice for safety reasons as well. Where there's a will there's a way; I know people who have beaten themselves up (e.g. slammed door knobs into their stomachs) to kill a fetus. Or drink heavily. Or take an unhealthy amount of Vitamin C. Women will find back-alley abortionists just to avoid the emotional turmoil of carrying a child they don't want, or was forced to conceive. Make facilities available.

Anyways! Back to my original point. Palin = Barf.

[phyco126]

Well, to be clear I am VERY pro-life. The thought of abortion as a simple means of birth control really leave me nausiated. However, I am also of the belief that the "day after pill" is a good middle ground, as hopefully the way my understanding is that the fetus isn't developed that far along (thus the name, again this is just my understanding and I have done no research on it).

Also, women who's health is in very grave danger, was a victim of a sexual crime, or some other VERY special circumstance should be allowed to have an abortion. I mean, seriously.

On the flip side, partial birth abortions I am very very VERY much against. Period.

[Maru]

Well, to be clear I am VERY pro-life. The thought of abortion as a simple means of birth control really leave me nausiated. However, I am also of the belief that the "day after pill" is a good middle ground, as hopefully the way my understanding is that the fetus isn't developed that far along (thus the name, again this is just my understanding and I have done no research on it).

Also, women who's health is in very grave danger, was a victim of a sexual crime, or some other VERY special circumstance should be allowed to have an abortion. I mean, seriously.

On the flip side, partial birth abortions I am very very VERY much against. Period.

To be clear myself: I am POLITCALLY Pro-Choice, MORALLY (to a degree) Pro-Life.

To explain; I agree that abortion should not be used as a form of casual birth control. "Oh hay baby, we're pregnant again! Guess we should'a used that condom!" "Well -Dragon Diamond-, Bessy, get over to Planned Parenthood before that there thing gets a soul!" That I disagree with. However, who am I to tell another woman what to do with her own body? Who the hell is Palin to tell a woman (which she is herself, duh) that she doesn't have the right to choose?

I'm not a fan of partial birth abortions, either, but like I said. A woman's right to choose is a woman's right to choose. I may have my own views, but I have no right to tell someone what they should/shouldn't or can/can't do. A government, in regards to one's own physical body, shouldn't have that right to say no, either.

[phyco126]

See, I think when a fetus hits a certain point in developement, it is no longer a choice of the woman to do what she wants to do to her body. The fetus is now an unborn child, and its own seperate self that still depends on the mother to act as a host. *shrugs* This is as far as I'll take it, of course, I'm not really wanting to get into a debate about this, so before it turns into one, I'll just retire right here.

In other news, I'm still rooting for Obama.

[Maru]

See, I think when a fetus hits a certain point in developement, it is no longer a choice of the woman to do what she wants to do to her body. The fetus is now an unborn child, and its own seperate self that still depends on the mother to act as a host. *shrugs* This is as far as I'll take it, of course, I'm not really wanting to get into a debate about this, so before it turns into one, I'll just retire right here.

... That's probably a good idea.

In other news, I'm still rooting for Obama.

Hells yeah. And with a Pro-Choice Catholic VP with him on the ticket. *Shuts up about abortion now, fo' real.*

[phyco126]

Well, I am looking mostly into his supposed tax plan and Iraq pull-out.

[Sonic#]

To Maru: (Forgive me, I would quote, but for some reason it won't let me copy/paste into this window.)

Oh, I see entirely where you're coming from, and I even personally agree with being politically pro-choice. My distinction was for people who believe limits on abortion should be legally enforced, but not to the degree that she's doing it.

Of course, I also think it would be folly to just vote on this issue, and I don't believe (hope?) that many people do so. Phyco brings up other ones to consider. As for myself, I tend to err to the side of social issues, since I can be more sure about those than I can be about economic approaches, what tax plans would work better, and so on. I have an opinion, but it isn't as strong unless, say, it's something like the "FairTax."

[phyco126]

Of course, I also think it would be folly to just vote on this issue, and I don't believe (hope?) that many people do so.

Behold the power of the religious right.

[Maru]

To Maru: (Forgive me, I would quote, but for some reason it won't let me copy/paste into this window.)

Oh, I see entirely where you're coming from, and I even personally agree with being politically pro-choice. My distinction was for people who believe limits on abortion should be legally enforced, but not to the degree that she's doing it.

Of course, I also think it would be folly to just vote on this issue, and I don't believe (hope?) that many people do so. Phyco boughrings up other ones to consider. As for myself, I tend to err to the side of social issues, since I can be more sure about those than I can be about economic approaches, what tax plans would work better, and so on. I have an opinion, but it isn't as strong unless, say, it's something like the "FairTax."

I will never forgive you.

Oh, I'm not focused specifically on this issue. I think I was misunderstood (*glares at Charles*). Abortion isn't the only thing that sways my vote, obviously; that's closed-minded and dogmatic. It's just one of the tick-marks on my "con" list. I'm not too keen on a fair amount of the issues on the McCain ticket (taxes, foreign affairs, etc), but Palin's violent Pro-Life views have been on my mind for awhile now, so that's why they were brought up in the first place.

Thanks a lot for understanding my point of view.

[Alunissage]

I still say talking about Palin's kids is off-limits, no matter what they're doing or have done. I'm in agreement with Obama on that point.

I completely agree -- Palin's children do not need to be in the spotlight, and speaking about them in regards to the election is un-called for.

Keep in mind that Palin herself issued a press release about her daughter's pregnancy. I'm not saying it's reasonable to harp on her family life; I agree that there are far more important issues for voters to be concerned with. But I just have to say that issuing a press release is basically calling for discussion of the topic of the press release.

[Sonic#]

I still say talking about Palin's kids is off-limits, no matter what they're doing or have done. I'm in agreement with Obama on that point.

I completely agree -- Palin's children do not need to be in the spotlight, and speaking about them in regards to the election is un-called for.

Keep in mind that Palin herself issued a press release about her daughter's pregnancy. I'm not saying it's reasonable to harp on her family life; I agree that there are far more important issues for voters to be concerned with. But I just have to say that issuing a press release is basically calling for discussion of the topic of the press release.

Yes, but... and this seems strange coming from me... do you think there's the possibility that her campaign (or McCain's) did it so that they wouldn't be accused of hiding a teenage daughter? In that way, their prompt would not be to have it be talked about, but to avoid it being talked about in a negative way. Put another way, she would have no choice of avoiding that topic being talked about.

[phyco126]

(*glares at Charles*).

*whimper*


By the way, I doubt that Palin's daughter would be discussed this much if Palin herself wasn't so, you know, abstinance only education.

[Alunissage]

I know some people speculated -- or perhaps this was actually said, I haven't seen the release myself -- that the announcement was made to put the lie to rumors that Palin's four-month-old was actually her grandson, her daughter's child... by stating that her daughter was five months pregnant and therefore could not have given birth four months ago. Or something like that.

But yes, I think you are correct, Sonic. Say it about yourself first, before someone else can "discover" it.

[phyco126]

I know some people speculated -- or perhaps this was actually said, I haven't seen the release myself -- that the announcement was made to put the lie to rumors that Palin's four-month-old was actually her grandson, her daughter's child... by stating that her daughter was five months pregnant and therefore could not have given birth four months ago. Or something like that.

That's what all the newspapers said when the news of this hit.

[White Shadow]

By the way, I doubt that Palin's daughter would be discussed this much if Palin herself wasn't so, you know, abstinance only education.

They impeached President Clinton for a hotel room tryst and he wasn't all 'family values'-ish.

[meg]

my mother, despite 8 years of george bush, still thinks bill clinton is the worst thing to happen to the country. because the coverage of that scandal meant she had to explain to her children what a blowjob is.

frankly, i'm much more traumatized by the patriot act, the iraq war, and sarah palin than i ever was by learning about blowjobs.

http://womenagainstsarahpalin.blogspot.com/

[phyco126]

because the coverage of that scandal meant she had to explain to her children what a blowjob is.

*smacks forehead* Wow. I would have rather learned that from my mother as opposed to learning it from those who partook in the act in middle school. Seriously.

They impeached President Clinton for a hotel room tryst and he wasn't all 'family values'-ish.

Different case, this was the fact that as the president you are supposed to lead the country, not cheat on your wife with your interns.

[Maru]

Different case, this was the fact that as the president you are supposed to lead the country, not cheat on your wife with your interns.

*Shrug* Did cheating on his wife affect his running of the country? No, not really.

Granted, I was 12 when all of that went down, but I still think Clinton was a fairly decent president. Impeachment on those grounds was bull. I'd give the President a blow job, too, if the opportunity ever came up. It'd be a neat story to tell the kids.