Overly formal language is overly formal...

For discussion of Lunar: Silver Star Harmony, the PSP remake of Lunar 1
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Aaron
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Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Aaron » Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:43 pm

I don't know if it's just me looking through my Limited Edition Silver Star colored Authentic Ramus Replica "Black Rose Street Colored" Glasses. But it seems to me that Xseed is using way over the top formal language in translating to English. It makes the Lunar experience rigid and ambiguous. I don't like it. I'm going to be sending a letter. I don't wanna see this messed up.

Who else feels the translation is kinda noobish, didactic, while at the same time idiomatic and miss the much more fluid and common speech of the Working Designs translation?

To me its kinda like buying an Anime on DVD and watching the sub then hating it and then downloading a fan sub onto your computer because it just reads so much better.

*sigh*

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Lunar Eclipse » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:32 pm

Eh, to me, the way the sections with voice acting are set up in Lunar has pretty much always caused a lack of properly conversational language. They're made for rigidity. I mean, most of the time, you run into someone who ends up talking at you and sometimes even responds to himself/herself without getting any input from Alex. It's just a fairly weird format, really. I think the unvoiced sections seem a lot more conversational.
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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Silver Phoenix » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:44 am

Aaron wrote:Who else feels the translation is kinda noobish, "didactic," while at the same time "idiomatic" and miss the much more fluid and common speech of the Working Designs translation?


For someone complaining about formal writing, your post may not read so easily to some who are looking for common descriptive words. Just a thought...

As for the writing, they may have toned down some of WD's outdated and overly crude references but the juvenile text and attitude remains in some form. You don't have the full game in your hands and you're already tearing it apart. I really don't think it's as formal as you're expecting it to be.

The game shouldn't sound like an entire piss and shi+ joke, or something you heard while walking by a bunch of teenagers in a mall.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Werefrog » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:00 am

Silver Phoenix wrote:
Aaron wrote:Who else feels the translation is kinda noobish, "didactic," while at the same time "idiomatic" and miss the much more fluid and common speech of the Working Designs translation?



Using "noobish" and "didactic" in the same sentence is what makes his post art.

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Aaron
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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Aaron » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:37 am

Thank you for the backhanded compliment. But you do see my point. Also I don't see anything wrong with tearing apart a game after the first 15-20 minutes of it.

The worst script is used whenever there is any scene with voice or video. I can agree with you that the joy in the writing comes through when you talk to the NPC's but I feel this will ultimate diminish the quality of the game. And as such, I think I have the right to complain about a $40 dollar game I preordered about 5 months ago.

The problems are not enough to change my purchase but I just want Lunar to shine. I wish the Lunar community had more talented people so we could just pitch together the money and get a contract to localize the next Lunar game. Then we could split the profits communist style. Or save it to localize the next Lunar game.

I really wish that Xseed had paid more attention to these boards so that they could pick up on the stuff that we like. Especially all the problems that were pointed out in the Japanese release (such as the loading pausing the music).

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Werefrog » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:06 pm

Aaron wrote:Thank you for the backhanded compliment. But you do see my point. Also I don't see anything wrong with tearing apart a game after the first 15-20 minutes of it.


Oh come on, it's funny that you used "noobish" and "didactic" in the same sentence. They have a completely different tone. It almost makes it seem like you wrote it with a thesaurus.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Kizyr » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:07 pm

Werefrog wrote:
Aaron wrote:Thank you for the backhanded compliment. But you do see my point. Also I don't see anything wrong with tearing apart a game after the first 15-20 minutes of it.

Oh come on, it's funny that you used "noobish" and "didactic" in the same sentence. They have a completely different tone. It almost makes it seem like you wrote it with a thesaurus.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Werefrog » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:37 pm

I find people who walk everywhere... so... pedestrian.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Shiva Indis » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:39 pm

I would like to thank everyone who made this awesome thread possible. You're all wonderful.

Aaron wrote:It makes the Lunar experience rigid and ambiguous. I don't like it. I'm going to be sending a letter. I don't wanna see this messed up.
You know, initially I would have agreed that the phrasing in the cutscenes was awkward. But then I turned up the sound and I was much happier with it.

This version seems good so far. It's not as slick as what Vic would have done, but I think it's closer to the original and that's basically what I wanted. But by all means, send Xseed a strongly worded note and demand that they be Working Designs.
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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Aaron » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:44 pm

@Werefrog & Kizyr

How you guys wrote is exactly what I'm talking about. In the opening dialogue Alex says something about the wind. It was really lame. But it reads and sounds like a 9th grader trying to write well by using words they don't really understand so they can sound intelligent.

It's kind of like they opened up a book of bad poetry and tried to make it seem important/inspiring by placing it in the context of the story. All it ends up doing is making you think, why the hell are they talking like this. Nobody talks to themselves like that.

The language is way over the top grandiloquent.

Don't get me wrong I don't want Working Designs in this version. I want a good translation from Japanese to English. If the Japanese like to use a lot of idioms in their speech then fine. The English speaking world does not, only fan boys like that kinda crap. A good translation conveys the meaning of the text, I am arguing that by translating it literally which apparently is what they're aiming for, they lost a lot of the actual message. They end up using a lot of what would be considered eloquent words in English to describe being late for an appointment (such as meeting Luna) or talking about wind.

The cultural references that may be being used in the Japanese are lost in the English. A good translator would work around it/use more relevant comparable examples in English.

That's why I can say something is noobish and didactic, while at the same time being idiomatic.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby fates » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:13 pm

I find that the floccinaucinihilipilification of the prose to be supportive of the antidisestablismentarianistic mindset of recent translations. Though, I can not say that that my hippopotomonstrosequippeddaliophobia will be triggered by this, as it does seem down to Earth enough and not overtly stretched out. I still find the translation maintains some sort of of honorificabilitudinitatibus to the source material.

But that's just me. :mrgreen:

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Aaron » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:19 pm

Oh grow up. Your really lame. I hope you enjoy yourself.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby fates » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:40 pm

Eeee. Just having a spot of fun.

Your really lame.


No arguement there. :cry:

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Silver Phoenix » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:14 pm

Alright bi+ches, we're all a dysfunctional and highly opinionated family here. So go to your corners and pray for Lunar 3!

Now Aaron, send them an informative email and maybe they will listen. I don't even know if they knew about Lunar-Net prior to me telling them to check us out if they needed assistance on anything Lunar related. I think they were going more for a translated style with a bit of flair based off the Japanese script, and not so much the slang script we're used to. It's very possible they just aren't interested in our knowledge, and that is a shame.

They aren't Working Designs, and they're not trying to be. Regardless of lame scripts during vocal scenes, maybe you need to go back and watch every single VA segment from all of the previous games. There is more than a handful of horribly performed lame dialogue (moreso in EB). Ghaleon and Zophar were the only real quality. I'm referencing original EB, as it's been a long time since I heard any voice segments from EBC.

The opening of Silver Star Harmony wasn't so great with the Nall introduction, but Spike probably needed better direction. His second part of speech sounded better when it cuts to the cinema.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby fates » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:31 pm

I think what's happening and will continue to happen is everyone holds the WD translation in really high regard that anything subsequent to that will be looked at with some negativity, even if it's equal to or perhaps better in quality (and no, I'm not claiming it is, I'm just using it to illustrate a point)

It's just the nature of the beast when it comes to fandoms.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Silver Phoenix » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:37 pm

You're very right, and that's the problem with nostalgia. WD was often criticised for their scripting by reviewers, but the fans loved the slang and potty humor.

I don't know if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but it seemed to me that XSEED put an emphasis on making it clear that Quark tells you that he's giving you a piece of his shi+..er Diamond. I don't remember if that's exact from the WD script eventhough it's similar.

The original line was "don't you know they're made from my sh....." I don't know, maybe the "new" lines were from SSSC and I just don't remember.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Final Night » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:39 pm

I played through the demo one and a half times (didn't have time to finish the first time) and didn't necessarily have a problem with the language or dialogue. Actually I didn't even notice the problem you're mentioning until I played through the demo again (after having read this post).

So I don't know. No complaints about the formal language from me. Hardly noticed.
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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Silver Phoenix » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:41 pm

I think he's talking more about Alex talking about "the wind" and Luna at the Springs.

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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby Kizyr » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:25 pm

I know it's going to be fun seeing some of the ensuing complaints about XSeed changing stuff when it's really a change by WD that XSeed decided to do differently. Like, Honmel Island instead of Caldor, Temujin instead of Tempest, etc. Right down to the "overly formal" language.

Silver Phoenix wrote:I don't know if I'm remembering this incorrectly, but it seemed to me that XSEED put an emphasis on making it clear that Quark tells you that he's giving you a piece of his shi+..er Diamond. I don't remember if that's exact from the WD script eventhough it's similar.

It's pretty much a straight translation. WD didn't add anything extra to that scene, so naturally XSeed's translation is going to be similar. KF
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Re: Overly formal language is overly formal...

Postby LuNaRtIc » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:43 pm

Kizyr wrote:I know it's going to be fun seeing some of the ensuing complaints about XSeed changing stuff when it's really a change by WD that XSeed decided to do differently. Like, Honmel Island instead of Caldor, Temujin instead of Tempest, etc. Right down to the "overly formal" language.


Wah! So Tempest isn't going to be Tempest?! ;0;
Whoo boy, that's going to be tough for me to take. xD I thought in the original Tempest was Temzin and Fresca was Pilya though? Am I missing something? D:
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