Althenaism

[Kizyr]

Yes, I'm sure. You're tossing out a whole mess of speculation and expecting me to buy that? It's back to what your usual habits are with theorizing everything then ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

I mean, your entire proof is that nobody ever says directly that Lucia gave up her hold on Althena's power, so it must be the case. There's nothing that indicates that, and everything in the game indicates that Althena's power was spread back out after Zophar's defeat--he did take it from Lucia before the fight, so the most reasonable thing is that he lost it after the fight. KF

[Angelalex242]

Yes, and I'm saying the glowing blue power that restored the party to full hp and mp was Althena's power. She was certainly glowing in sprite form in much the same way she was glowing in anime form. Do you, then, postulate that wasn't her stripping Althena's power from Zophar?

Besides. Some evidence I buy, some I don't. If I don't agree with your support for your evidence, why would I agree with the evidence? Don't try to prove B to me when I don't even accept your explination for A.

You have not defined 'pretty clear'...other then in a general, vague way. What is 'pretty clear' to you is clear as mud to me.

[DevNall]

I'm not even sure how to reply to this thread anymore.

Maybe in a thousand years, people will remember the day Lucia was freed from Zophar via the Easter Dragon.

[Sonic#]

The problem with disregarding evidence (to be distinguished from arguments) is that you're essentially ignoring the material you're supposed to be going on. It doesn't matter how plausible it sounds with the evidence you look at... if you ignore the rest of the facts, and any part of that rest speaks against you, you're wrong.

Evidence for Althena's power not being taken away by Lucia? For it still being in Lunar?

Consider, for example, that Lemina and Remilia still hope to revive the magic city of Vane. Could they do this, if no one else had magic?

Consider also that one way of claiming Althena's power is essentially to steal away all the magical sustenance of life on the silver star. Yet, in the epilogue, everything is returned to normal.

And then there's the blue aura. Yes, the blue aura, the one that must be of the same nature because it's the same color. First, it doesn't have to be that. Second, the aura doesn't have to be Althena's power in the second case, when she's liberated from Zophar. Could it be her blossoming belief in humanity, because she frees herself after complimenting all of the characters. Could it have generated this new source of power?

Apparently so, because it would certainly fulfill one of the main themes of the story (humanity = yay!). Which would be the aim of the writer (most good writers don't include things just for miscellaneous coincidence). After believing in humanity, what need would she have for Althena's power? To revive the Blue Star? Humanity's proven itself up to the task of aiding in that, when the time comes.

As for the barrier when she teleported, again, could easily be a different source. Could be Althena's power. Could be hers. Could be both. Could be monkeys with this little pedal machine that're working along, generating some static energy. I like the last theory best.

What I'm trying to express is not only that I think Kizyr is right (because our reasoning doesn't run into contradictions; if they exist, check the premise), but that your own argument is weak. I won't discount their possibility for being right, because I cannot. We're all speculating. But yours has a far lesser chance of being so, as it lacks the more solid support we have.

[Angelalex242]

I also made an argument that Humanity may have become independant of the magic of the goddess.

Whether Zophar had Althena's power during the fight with Ghaleon, or Lucia did, neither of them were sharing. Especially not Zophar. Cause, ya know. Evil Gods aren't big on sharing.

So how did Hiro and co get their magic back? It wasn't from Althena's power.

So Althena's power may be as irrelevant to magic in general in the future as it was to the main party. Would that not also tie in well to humanity, yay!

So. If Lunar doesn't need it anymore...why not take it home? I am therefore concluding that is no longer the power of the Goddess sustaining life. Humanity itself does that. Althena wanted them to be independant...and removing her power entirely when there was no longer a need for it seems a logical way to get there. Therefore, humanity itself generates the magic of Lunar and sustains life on Lunar.

What? Humanity can't do that? Those who underestimate the power of the human spirit are doomed to fail.

So why would one take Althena's power home? Lucia left without Hiro. Ergo, without humanity. The Blue Star doesn't have a single human being on it...that she's aware of. So Humanity's power cannot help nor sustain the Blue Star. (Lucia, at that point, can't see the future and predict Hiro's going to find her...she's surprised to see him whe he does show up...) So what's she going to use to revive the Blue Star by herself, as she originally intended to do? Her own power isn't gonna get the job done, or it'd have been revived already. So, she must've taken it home.

Don't count me out so quickly...

[DevNall]

So how did Hiro and co get their magic back? It wasn't from Althena's power.

To be honest, I was never totally clear on this; I thought maybe it was Ghaleon's doing.

[Kizyr]

...I'm not gonna bother discussing on this thread any longer. You're arguing based mostly on stuff you're making up, proven only because you can't see anything directly telling you otherwise--though, when something does imply otherwise, you slide on past that and disregard it (Sonic# already mentioned anything I would, so I won't bother repeating it).

I really can't argue when you're basing more things off of your own speculation, and almost nothing off of the original sources. KF

[Angelalex242]

Ah, but you see, I don't HAVE to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I just need to write a good story. One of these days I'll post a fanfic based on my theories, and the world it creates woven together by my own hand.

I have 10 levels of speculation to plug any practical holes, and explain away anything that might imply otherwise. Sometimes I wonder if you tell me to drop my levels cause it makes winning me over to your point of view possible.

Of course, if you wanna convince ME to rewrite my story, you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what it took for me to revise my Star Dragon theories...my own research proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise...and I generally don't change my mind for less then that.

Anyways, your theories are based on Occam's Razor. That the simplest explination is usually right. Your explination is certainly the simplest. But.

Occam's Razor has been known to fail. So.

[drumlord]

I think he wants you to keep your story out of threads that aren't about your story. That's all.

I have some pretty unorthodox views of Ghaleon, the faeries, the Star Dragon, and a few other parts of the story. But I've only discussed them in private with G1 instead of presenting them here. If at some point I do choose to discuss them, I'll start a thread to see what people think. And I still think that would be absolutely perfect for you to do. If you started a thread about your theories, I'd actually be interested to see where it goes. In these threads, I'm mostly just wishing we stuck to the games. That's my thoughts though; others may feel differently.

[Angelalex242]

Well, this thread was designed to discuss Althenaism and its ramifications.

And, of course, Luciaism in a world where people found out Althena was dead. If they find out she's dead.

Besides, the original question said 'if this were the case, then what would happen?'

It did not say 'this is the case, so what happened?' So many things can be missed when you forget to see an if.

[Kizyr]

I have 10 levels of speculation to plug any practical holes, and explain away anything that might imply otherwise. Sometimes I wonder if you tell me to drop my levels cause it makes winning me over to your point of view possible.

No, I'm saying that I can't argue with you unless you drop the dozen levels of speculation you have, because your rebuttal to every argument is based off of things you've made up to begin with. I can't argue when the basis is your head, more than the games themselves, because there's no basis for disagreement.

Of course, if you wanna convince ME to rewrite my story, you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what it took for me to revise my Star Dragon theories...my own research proved beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise...and I generally don't change my mind for less then that.

I read very little fanfiction, so I'll be honest that I don't care about your story. If you're going to air your opinions in public, though, and about a game that others know plenty about, you should expect certain holes in your theories to be pointed out, and contradictions with the game to be pointed out as well. Now, if want to say "this is the basis for what I'm writing in a story," then there's no reason for me to disagree, since it's your story. KF

[Angelalex242]

The best I can give you is that you have Occam's Razor down.

Other then that...

There's just other ways to explain things then what you've set down, which seems to be the majority view.

[Alunissage]

Sure, there's a multiplicity of ways to explain unknowns. You're expressing your way. However, when we're talking about a single person's way to explain things basing all on that person's premise then that's fanfic. You're developing your story idea under the guise of calling it discussion, and not everyone wants to be your crit group when we're here to talk about more than just your ideas. Feel free to make a thread about them, as Rich suggested, but stop trying to argue in "discussion" threads based only on your own premises rather than what's actually there.

[Angelalex242]

Nobody ever said I wasn't sneaky.

Then again, if I wasn't tossing controversial ideas up there...well, I don't see anyone else doing it. What would there be to discuss?

It'd probably look more fair if somebody else discussed their nonstandard theories.