Tempest and Fresca

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Leo
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Tempest and Fresca

Postby Leo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:13 am

Do any of the drama's/books or anything give us more insight into Pao, its characters and its history? If I had the resources and influence, I'd love a side-game that focuses on these portions since I feel they're underdeveloped.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Mimasaka » Tue May 12, 2015 10:50 pm

I've always wanted to know more about those two, too.

I also wonder why they changed Fresca's (originally "Pilya"?) name in the English version. Not that they didn't do that with other characters, but...

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Leo
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Leo » Tue May 12, 2015 11:12 pm

I'm not sure but.....Fresca was a pretty good soda. Maybe that was the motivation? "Pilya probably wouldn't sound so good to Americans...what should we call her?" *spots soda can to his left* =P

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Wed May 13, 2015 3:59 am

That's actually pretty much what happened. That's why she has a line saying that it's short for Franchesca, to try to diminish that association.

I think Vic was probably right that Pilya as a name wouldn't go over too well. Likewise with Quark instead of Fidy. Too close to Fido.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Wed May 13, 2015 4:01 am

Also, the one thing I've always hoped for in the various Lunar 1 remakes is that Fresca would be playable, preferably as a women-only dungeon to balance out Grimzol's Cave / the Black Dragon fortress. And, of course, I've been disappointed every time. Fresca is one of my favorite characters.

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Leo
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Leo » Wed May 13, 2015 4:09 am

I was joking with that. Didn't expect to be nearly spot-on. I would be fine with a sidestory game involving Tempest and Fresca.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Wed May 13, 2015 10:03 pm

I suspect that sort of thing happens more often than we think. I knew a girl named Audrey who was so named because while her father was trying to think of names he was in traffic behind an Audi.

I don't do fanfic generally, but one idea that struck me with the whole dragon necklace thing in SSSC (that Tempest gives Alex as an identifier) is, what if Tempest was once a potential Dragonmaster that declined? There's mention of Laike or Dyne (I don't remember which) visiting Pao when he was young, and he lives near the Black Dragon much as Alex did the White Dragon. What if he did a Dragon Trial of his own in visiting the Black Dragon, got the necklace, then decided his place was in Pao rather than the rest of the world?

It wouldn't mesh with the green eyes thing, but I've always thought that Laike probably spread that himself after dropping off Luna and Nall with his friend Noah and seeing Alex. Alex and Luna bonded immediately (there's a line or two to that effect), so what more suitable dragonmaster than the one who was that close to the goddess?

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Leo
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Leo » Thu May 14, 2015 5:54 pm

I like that idea. Though imagine a game where Tempest IS the Dragonmaster. The game would likely have a western feeling like Wild Arms mixed with Little House On The Prairie.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby brit » Sat May 16, 2015 11:59 pm

Leo wrote:I like that idea. Though imagine a game where Tempest IS the Dragonmaster. The game would likely have a western feeling like Wild Arms mixed with Little House On The Prairie.


OMG! I would've been completely okay with that. Tempest is literally my favorite side character in SSSC/TSS and the Wild Arms franchise is right up my alley. <3 To be honest I really wish we had Tempest in our party longer then what we did. .__.
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Mimasaka » Tue May 19, 2015 12:12 am

I love how Fresca mentions (was it in SSSC?) that she wants 12+ kids with Tempest. Hey, whatever works for you. X)

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby brit » Tue May 19, 2015 2:32 am

Mimasaka wrote:I love how Fresca mentions (was it in SSSC?) that she wants 12+ kids with Tempest. Hey, whatever works for you. X)


I think it's in SSSC since I recall her saying something along those lines and being totally surprised by it due to the number. ^o^ It's literally one of the things I remember about her since we didn't get too much info on her.
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Leo » Tue May 19, 2015 4:07 am

Mimasaka wrote:I love how Fresca mentions (was it in SSSC?) that she wants 12+ kids with Tempest. Hey, whatever works for you. X)


Hopefully the plains tribe is familiar with kegels. :lol:

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:08 pm

Alunissage wrote:Also, the one thing I've always hoped for in the various Lunar 1 remakes is that Fresca would be playable, preferably as a women-only dungeon to balance out Grimzol's Cave / the Black Dragon fortress. And, of course, I've been disappointed every time. Fresca is one of my favorite characters.


I second this, only I would have had Fresca join the party with Tempest before you go into the Black Dragon Fortress. It would have given the developers the opportunity to give more depth to her character than "gets sick and loves to talk about how much she wants Tempest's babies."* She could be the calm-and-collected type to balance out Tempest's hotheaded personality. Also, I'd give her a bullwhip so you'd have a female melee fighter in your party. Maybe further balance out the male-to-female ratio for that dungeon by having Kyle get sick instead of Jessica? That way you'd have a healer (and Jess would be returning the favor to Kyle for saving her from Plaster Mel earlier :mrgreen: ).

*Apparently, the Lunar I & II art book claims that she's the strong, valiant type, even though this aspect of her character has never been worked into any version of Lunar 1. What a waste of a potentially good character.

I don't do fanfic generally, but one idea that struck me with the whole dragon necklace thing in SSSC (that Tempest gives Alex as an identifier) is, what if Tempest was once a potential Dragonmaster that declined? There's mention of Laike or Dyne (I don't remember which) visiting Pao when he was young, and he lives near the Black Dragon much as Alex did the White Dragon. What if he did a Dragon Trial of his own in visiting the Black Dragon, got the necklace, then decided his place was in Pao rather than the rest of the world?


I like this idea. I imagine one of the reasons he would have declined was so that he could settle down with Fresca and live a relatively quieter life.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby MaroonChan » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:50 am

Alunissage wrote:I suspect that sort of thing happens more often than we think. I knew a girl named Audrey who was so named because while her father was trying to think of names he was in traffic behind an Audi.

I don't do fanfic generally, but one idea that struck me with the whole dragon necklace thing in SSSC (that Tempest gives Alex as an identifier) is, what if Tempest was once a potential Dragonmaster that declined? There's mention of Laike or Dyne (I don't remember which) visiting Pao when he was young, and he lives near the Black Dragon much as Alex did the White Dragon. What if he did a Dragon Trial of his own in visiting the Black Dragon, got the necklace, then decided his place was in Pao rather than the rest of the world?

It wouldn't mesh with the green eyes thing, but I've always thought that Laike probably spread that himself after dropping off Luna and Nall with his friend Noah and seeing Alex. Alex and Luna bonded immediately (there's a line or two to that effect), so what more suitable dragonmaster than the one who was that close to the goddess?

I love that idea as well!

I always did love Tempest. XD Shame you didn't get more of him then you did.
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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:13 am

Greco12 wrote:*Apparently, the Lunar I & II art book claims that she's the strong, valiant type, even though this aspect of her character has never been worked into any version of Lunar 1. What a waste of a potentially good character.

I think it is said in one of the games (TSS, probably) that she's a very strong fighter. Possibly even the strongest. I wonder if they were originally intended to be more fleshed out and then that was dropped. You even see them in the last scene, during Luna's speech about how she always knew Alex would rescue her.

Incidentally, not clear on whether you knew this already, but Tempest's weapon in TSS is a whip. Dunno why it was changed to a bow in SSSC.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:47 am

Alunissage wrote:Incidentally, not clear on whether you knew this already, but Tempest's weapon in TSS is a whip. Dunno why it was changed to a bow in SSSC.


I have the Lunar I and II art book, and she does indeed have a whip. I like the idea of her using a whip, since it contrasts nicely with Tempest's archery skills. Maybe she uses it to keep him in line? :lol:

It's pretty sad how they never integrated Fresca into the party. One of the village girls in SSSC says she's the strongest girl in the village and once broke the girl's hand in a match. Unfortunately, Fresca comes off more as a 50's housewife with the way she goes on about Tempest's devotion to her and her dream of having his children.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:41 pm

I've been doing some thinking on Tempest and Fresca (and Pao in general), and honestly I think the game would have been stronger without the Pao arc. It adds too little to the story and it's over and done with too quickly to leave much of an impact, especially in the remakes. The reveal of Luna being brainwashed really should have been put off until the end of the Grindery after you beat the Magic Emperor. Tempest and Fresca themselves are too one-dimensional to really appreciate as characters. Also, the Dark Songstress' song only affecting the girls in your party is not only a contrived means of making the Black Dragon fortress harder, but the way it shafts two otherwise awesome female characters (the song affects Jessica and Mia, but the guy standing right outside the entrance to the fortress isn't even fazed? are you kidding me?) is very distracting in a game already centered around saving a damsel in distress.

And the Pao arc also conflicts with Nash's betrayal. Nash told Ghaleon about everything the party was doing since the beginning, and yet he seems to forget that Ghaleon had no problem using the Dark Songstress' song to nearly kill both him and Mia, the girl he loved and insisted needed protecting?

It would have been better to do away with Pao altogether and have the Black Dragon Fortress come right after the Forest of Illusion.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am

Pretty much all of your issues with the Pao bit are unique to the remakes. There was no song-induced illness in TSS (it was a plague inflicted by Xenobia on the people of Pao that was already present when the party arrives); it was nowhere near the Black Dragon Cave (which was in the Frontier); you don't see Luna as a red-eyed Althena until after everything else in the Frontier; Nash doesn't betray the party in TSS (he pretends to, but is really a double agent). Also, there are no horses in TSS -- I always thought it was weird to have them in that one scene in SSS and nowhere else in any of the games that I can recall -- and Tempest doesn't have this hotheaded frontier-justice (so to speak) thing going on.

So, in short, it's another example of things screwed up in the remake(s). :P

BTW, the point of Pao in TSS was to get to the Frontier. The airship was used to get to the Goddess Tower, which is not some nutty sci-fi floating fortress thing. (Much as I like the music of the Fortress rising, it feels ridiculously out of place to me.) Also, there's a bit of a moral issue in Pao because the Prairie Tribe are forbidden to touch the seal in the cave, which Tempest needs to do to fight the monster bringing the plague, so he has to go against several centuries of law to save his people. A bit simplistic (and slightly confusing because of some translation inconsistencies), but not without substance.

I completely agree that Tempest and Fresca should have been more filled out as characters, and wonder if they were intended to be originally. They do show up again in TSS to fight off some enemies in/near the Grindery long enough to let Alex and company get further in, and they're shown in the last group pic during Luna's closing lines.

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Alunissage » Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:20 am

By the way, I don't mean to be jumping down your throat for being familiar with the remakes rather than the original. It's more that you point out other ways that the remake made some short-sighted changes that weakened the whole. Though honestly I don't think Luna being brainwashed is much of a reveal. Then again, I played TSS first, so it wasn't a surprise that Ghaleon would be controlling Althena's powers and that Luna wouldn't always be aware of herself as "Luna".

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Re: Tempest and Fresca

Postby Greco12 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:47 am

No problem. Although I can appreciate the writers' attempts to tie Pao in with Alex's quest to become Dragonmaster, it actually created more issues than fixed. The girls getting sick in the original also comes off less distracting and less emotionally-manipulative as Jessica stays up long enough to look after Mia (by the time you've gotten the seal and returned to the village, she's taken a turn for the worse though). While it's still contrived just to deprive you of your healer and better mage, I have an easier time buying them contracting an illness than being the only ones affected by a magic song everyone can hear and presumably has no specified targets. Also, they don't tease you into thinking the girls are going to come looking for you like in the remake.

Fresca also comes off a little better in the original if for no other reason than she doesn't have any cringeworthy dialogue about how having children is the most important thing in a woman's life. I guess they were trying to imply that the Prairie Tribe placed emphasis on having many children in addition to being great warriors, but it just comes off as regressive.

Looking back, I wish Lunar: SSH had incorporated more elements of the original or at least made an attempt to fix some of SSSC's plot holes and expand on the side characters. Plaster Mel's another plot hole that comes to mind, because, again, Nash and Mia come close to dying by the hands of Ghaleon's minions when Nash is supposedly telling him everything the party's up to.


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