dragonmaster for a bad guy

[Kizyr]

Doesn't hold much weight. Lucia doesn't have that kind of a position of assigning destinies.

I mean, you could just as easily split it between Vishnu, god of creation, Shiva, god of death, and... ...I forget the name of the god of sustainence. Began with an M I think.

Zophar was practically modelled off of Shiva anyhow, especially with the multiple arms. KF

[Rune Lai]

Wasn't it Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Shiva the Destroyer? I'm pretty sure Vishnu was in the middle.

I really don't see Althena, Lucia, and Zophar being any kind of triumvirate though, especially since Lucia seems subordinate to Althena rather than an equal.

[Angelalex242]

Actually, I like that triumvirate better. It's easier to make the case for Lucia preserving things then assigning destinies. (And the destiny to return to the Blue Star wasn't assigned by her...yet, anyway...)

[Alunissage]

In that crystal I'd consider Lucia the preserved.

[drumlord]

In that crystal I'd consider Lucia the preserved.

The crystal extends her expiration date.

Also, forgive me if a sleepy morning brain made this up, but I remember it was said that there are more gods/goddesses out there in the universe in one of the books in one of the games. Sadly, I have no more information than that, leading me to believe this is something I made up years ago and it stuck. But I thought I remember seeing a few more names of beings that are supposed to be on the level of Zophar and Althena, which of course would eliminate any kind of triumverate anyway.

[Angelalex242]

*sighs* Only mortals have expiration dates.. Not gods, and not dragons.

I suppose there's a possibility Dragon Song might list other deities. Dragon Song might even refer to the 'girl on the Blue Star' who's going to be gathering energy for another 2000 years, as well as Zophar...

It's possible DS, set 1000 years earlier then SSSC, might even have more of the truth of why humanity left the Blue Star. 1000 years makes a difference for some books.

[drumlord]

*sighs* Only mortals have expiration dates.. Not gods, and not dragons.

*sighs* It was a joke. I figured using the term "expiration date" would at least be a dead giveaway considering most of us here probably consider Lucia a food

[Jenner]

I think Lucia would have aged if she wasn't in that cystal. She was waiting for the Blue Star to recover. I also think Lucia is about 15-16 I think Hiro is 16-17 I think Ronfar is 32 or so, I think Jean is in her early 20's and I know Leo is 35 (I'll come back to this) Lemina's probably 15 because she's so young. She acts young, like mega-immature.

"Hiro's a perve"

I'd like to think that Hiro took on Lucia's mission with her when he went to the Blue Star.

An underlying theme in Eternal Blue was Hiro and Lucia maturing. Hiro as a boy into a man (As Leo remarks as he’s disembarking for the Blue Star) and Lucia as a person. (As Ruby confesses in the Red Dragon cave) I believe that Hiro matured and grew out of that: “OMG CHICK PUT MY MANPARTS IN IT.” To a truly mature and strong person who wanted to support and live his life with Lucia, in the end, he shared her dreams. “I want to help you accomplish your dreams, Lucia.” Hero wasn’t just after Lucia for her looks. He was an inwardly good person who wanted to help people and adventure, if he was truly some kind of perve he would have taken advantage of her when she was ill after Zophar cursed her. He’s not as bad as you guys are playing him out to be. Hiro was a noble young man with spirit and heart. Lucia was probably the first pretty girl he’d ever seen, he was probably crushing hard, but his good nature prevailed and he grew and matured as a strong, supportive man. His crush developed into full-blown concern and love. Both he and Lucia grew together. Hiro wanted to help Lucia, not just because she was a pretty girl, but because she needed help.

Yeah, that's about it. I mean, if you were finally kissing the woman you loved for the first time would you want an audience?

Y’know, we’re not exactly really there. It’s storytelling, we’re not really watching them kiss, we’re seeing it but not watching it. It’s not a window. They’re kissing, alone, in love, on the Blue Star and we’re shown it. It’s a symbolic expression of their solidified love for each other and it gives their romance some much-needed closure and definition.

"You're 35 and don't have a girlfriend?" is actually a comment both a soldier in the Dragon Ship Destiny and a gossip in Nota says, “Lord Leo is thirty-five and still doesn’t have a girlfriend.” And Ruby makes a snarky “He must be teh homo” comment.

Alunissage, your elitist attitude is irritating and offensive. Please try to tone down and moderate your fanaticism. It intimidates the new people who are just trying to participate in the debate and it annoys the older members. People are allowed to have their own opinions; berating them for having theories you don’t agree with is very unfriendly. This is a social place and everyone’s welcome to participate and speak their opinions with out getting flamed/ridiculed.

[Angelalex242]

...Drumlord, I have seen your comments in a whole new light.

Quite the delectable scrumptious dish indeed! Yummy...

*wipes drool off chin*

...Right then, back to the debate.

Ronfar's 45 based on taking things literally, though. Scroll above for details.

As for takin on Lucia's mission...

This is the part where more debate is in order.

How the heck does a mere mortal take on Lucia's mission?

Likely problems:
First, he can't channel that much energy.
Second, he needs to eat and such...what supplies is he consuming, anyway?
Third, the power of Humanity...I'm not sure how Hiro might use that to help, except in sort of a 'Wind beneath her wings' sort of way.
Fourth...it's likely kinda boring on the Blue Star. There's NOBODY else on a planet several times the size of Lunar. There's not even any Dragons to hang out with. Sure, there's ruins to explore, but exploring them means time not spent on the revival mission. There's only so many times Hiro can surprise Lucia with a snowball, after all...
Lastly, he's not immortal. Eventually, he's gonna grow old and die unless Lucia's got some way to fix that. Even if she does have a way to fix that, one wonders what emotional toll would be taken on Hiro knowing all his friends have died of old age. Humanity is not meant to live forever. Living forever would evolve a man into...something else. One wonders if Hiro might even make the decision Althena did and choose to die when his time's up. Of course, this assumes Lucia cannot make that choice because her death would doom the Blue Star itself. Even Althena couldn't shrug off her divinity for a good several thousand years...till Humanity could sustain itself. Humanity's nowhere near that point on the Blue Star, obviously.

[Kizyr]

Wasn't it Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Shiva the Destroyer? I'm pretty sure Vishnu was in the middle.

I really don't see Althena, Lucia, and Zophar being any kind of triumvirate though, especially since Lucia seems subordinate to Althena rather than an equal.

You're right. Vishnu is the sustainer, while Brahma is the creator. I am error.

Hiro was a noble young man with spirit and heart. Lucia was probably the first pretty girl he’d ever seen, he was probably crushing hard, but his good nature prevailed and he grew and matured as a strong, supportive man. His crush developed into full-blown concern and love. Both he and Lucia grew together.

That's how I saw Hiro! Sure he had an interest in the woman; had I been in that situation, I would've, too. But Lucia's not the only one who matured over the course of the game--Hiro, who spent most of his time away from other people (except for Ruby and Gwyn), also had a lot of maturing to do throughout the game.

I mean, it's like Blue Lagoon here. Both of them 'grew up' together. In that respect, it's kind of like TSS as well. Though, I don't like Blue Lagoon too much, 'cause every time I see Brooke Shields I have an insane urge to smack her in the face.

As for takin on Lucia's mission...
This is the part where more debate is in order.
How the heck does a mere mortal take on Lucia's mission?

Hiro does play a significant role, just as significant as Alex's role with teaching Althena/Luna about the power of humanity. Althena learned about the essence of what it is to be human from her love of Alex. Lucia, likewise, can learn the same thing from her love of Hiro.

I mean, had she not, she wouldn't have hesitated a second to destroy Lunar in order to eliminate Zophar. It was because she developed feelings for the people around her that she realized how important it was to preserve what was created, rather than wiping it out just to serve another purpose. She was too focused on her mission, without considering other ways of achieving it that might require a 'leap of faith' in humanity. Hiro (and her relationship with Hiro, as well as the others) helped her to make that leap. KF

[Alunissage]

Hm. True, I suppose maturing is a general theme. Hiro's initial reaction ticked me off so much I didn't notice it significantly changing, but you're right. He is somewhat consistently clueless, as when he interrupts Lucia's few peaceful moments by reminding her of her mission which she's managed to successfully put out of her mind for a brief moment, and that tended to add to the impression of his youth to me. However, there are plenty of people who are older than he who don't pick up on things too.

Angelalex, your argument about Hiro being unable to take on Lucia's mission of channelling power is irrelevant because Lucia's mission is never defined explicitly. The game developers may have a totally different concept of what Lucia's actual job is after she comes out of her preservative, and it may well be something that Hiro could help with. We won't know until Lunar 3, if then. Speculation is fine, but shouldn't be limited by one specific theory. No, I don't have one of my own.

Jenner, Angelalex does not seem the least bit intimidated by me. I won't comment on times I've found you to be irritating and offensive for the same reason I haven't in the past, e.g., it's not appropriate for a public board. And as been clearly stated many times the primary disagreement I have with Angelalex's theories is that he presents and treats them as facts, as the previous paragraph addresses. Lastly, this has been going on for several days; I think we know where each other is coming from. He's fanatic about creating as airtight a post-EBC story for Lucia as he can within certain parameters; I'm fanatic about making a clear distinction between official material and speculation, and keeping the latter in tune with the former. Sometimes these clash, in large part because he's working off an in-depth knowledge of a selected portion of the available material, while I have a more general knowledge of a wider range of material.

[Angelalex242]

Her mission is 'revive the Blue Star'.

It could be that mother nature would take care of it eventually, rather like Earth coming out of an ice age. But that's science, not magic, and this is a magical world we're talking about. So it's more likely that a magical answer is in order. In Neo Vane, magic was proven not to be a person's only worth...

Then again, when it comes to Terraforming, there's not a lot else other professions can do to help.

Edit:The Black Dragon says outright that the job of the dragons is to protect Lunar AND Revive the Blue Star. I'm guessing all 5 Dragons need to return to the Blue Star before Lucia can claim she's done. Amazing what evidence you can gather just by playing through the game again. The Blue and Black Dragons, especially, have indicitive wisdom on the subject...both on Disc 2, and you can talk to them in the epilogue too if you go down into their caves for no good reason. They tend to see Lucia and go 'oh, hell...that means...damnit, please don't nuke the world, Althena didn't want that...she had a plan for you...' It's also worth noting they recognize Lucia for who and what she is on sight.

However, since you only argued point 1 and even then only said I can't prove it, Hiro seems like he isn't gonna be able to take Lucia's mission on effectively.

Jenner, I appreciate the effort and the standing up for me, by the way. I agree she might well have intimidated somebody less strong willed...or stubborn, if I'm being more honest with myself...right off the boards.

[Alunissage]

Well, to me point 1 rendered the rest of the points moot. If we don't know what the nature of the revival is we can't assume the rest...for, example, that it requires her to outlive Hiro. Weren't you the one who said something about a goddess should be able to magic up a meal? Or was that someone else?

And, if it needs to be said (and evidently it does) I wouldn't be this forceful if you weren't so stubborn, or strong-willed if you prefer. I have certainly said some things more strongly than I should have; however, it would be no more balanced for me to be so reticent as to say nothing about your theories even when they seem wrong than it would be to shout down someone who is meeker. Speculation lately has certainly been dominated by your theories, but I'm more inclined to chalk that up to your forcefulness and verbosity than mine, if for no better reason than that you posted them in three or four threads.

[NallOne]

Hm. True, I suppose maturing is a general theme. Hiro's initial reaction ticked me off so much I didn't notice it significantly changing, but you're right. He is somewhat consistently clueless, as when he interrupts Lucia's few peaceful moments by reminding her of her mission which she's managed to successfully put out of her mind for a brief moment, and that tended to add to the impression of his youth to me. However, there are plenty of people who are older than he who don't pick up on things too.

That is basically how I feel, although I will admit I can see where you guys are coming from with them both having matured. Then again, I suppose "Let's mature!" is a pretty strong theme in the entire game. Let's see: Ruby matures, Hiro Matures, Lucia Matures...I wouldn't say Leo so much matures rather he just changes his stance on things. I'll be sure to keep a bit more of an open mind when I replay it in the near future and not just write Hiro off at face value.

Re Alunissage's behavior...I don't see the problem. I think we are all mature enough to handle a little bit of written text however forceful it may be. Alunissage is just sure where she stands on this issue and can be a bit firm about how she makes that known. In all honesty I really don't see the problem. Would you rather she not say anything at all? That wouldn't make for very fun discussion. Feel free to be forceful with me Alunissage - I can take it!

(Really though, if it is actually bothering Angelalex242 I don't see why he can't just let Alunissage know through PM that she's coming on too strong and be done with it, rather than bringing it onto the boards and in a topic that has nothing to do with it. Just my opinion. Feel free to reprimand me. I'll stop now. )

[Angelalex242]

I was more worried for the fainter of heart then myself. The meek may inherit the earth, but they don't stand up for themselves well.

Back to the point...

Oh, yes, people can be clueless at any age. From meddling mother in laws to children, cluelessness isn't necessarily something outgrown.

Then again, Lucia does pull some classic stunts of her own. "You have no idea what's really at stake!" "Tell me." "I can't!" "..." Guys, how many times has that happened to you? (About, granted, less world shaking things, but even so. The classic if you don't know then I'm not telling you...) The Blue Dragon starts talking about it... "Shut up, Blue Dragon, no fair telling the mortals what's really at stake!" "Oops, sorry."

Yes, I did say Lucia can very likely magic up some food. Then again, I can't prove that, now can I?

In Hiro's favor for being able to help Lucia, he does bring some pretty potent toys with him, including:
Althena's Sword, The Goddess Crest, the 4 Dragon Crests, the Gale Crest, The Dragon Shield/Helmet/Armor, the white dragon wings, the Hero's Talisman, the Spirit Talisman, Alex's Ocarina...etc. (Yeah, that's all optional, but let's give the man the benefit of the doubt and assume he was thorough.)

Anyways, put all that junk together and...you've basically got a fake Dragonmaster trying to help Lucia out. Whether a fake is 'good enough' is a debatable point, however.

[Kizyr]

Hiro would never be fit to be Dragonmaster. His love was for Lucia, and devoting his life to protecting Althena (hypothetically, since Althena is no longer around in EB) would compromise that. His role is different; rather than being destined to protect Althena, he's destined to help Lucia--which is why the note Luna left could be addressed to him.

It all worked out to where it was foreordained.

Back to my original point. Lucia had one sole mission while on Lunar: to find Althena and (later) defeat Zophar. As Zophar pointed out, though, using Althena's power to do so would destroy the world--not leaving much to save there, but at least taking out a dark god of destruction. Hiro helped her with that mission by giving her something to care about, something worth saving, and something worth taking a leap of faith for.

Her other mission isn't really a mission so much as an overall purpose: to restore the Blue Star. I don't see why Hiro wouldn't help her in the same regard. Just like defeating Zophar was meaningless if there was nothing worth saving, restoring the Blue Star is meaningless if there isn't a reason to do so, besides "it's my purpose". Hiro, again, gives that purpose to her--without which, all restoration would mean would be raising the temperature of the Blue Star back to normal. KF

[Angelalex242]

Yes, but one doesn't restore a planet for one man, however much that one man might be cared about.

Lucia had to take a further leap, and come to love humanity in general. To understand indeed that the people of Lunar were loving and loveable, and deserved to be returned to their original home. Only by traveling the world and meeting people could she do that.

I think that's why Nall kept her and made her hang out with the Dragon Kids. It's a metaphor for embracing the future of Lunar. ...and he had her sing to those kids too. Althena was famous for singing...hmm.

[phyco126]

I still say that Lucia or Lunar had any part in restoring the Blue Star. Someone just accidently left their car running.

[Kizyr]

Yes, but one doesn't restore a planet for one man, however much that one man might be cared about.

Lucia had to take a further leap, and come to love humanity in general. To understand indeed that the people of Lunar were loving and loveable, and deserved to be returned to their original home. Only by traveling the world and meeting people could she do that.

That's exactly my point. Had it not been for Hiro, she would never have stopped and took the time to do so. Right up until Zulan she was content to go on ignoring everything else. KF

[Angelalex242]

Anyways, my Hiro as Dragonmaster theory revolves around, if Lucia claimed Althena's power, then there's nothing left of Althena in the world, and Lucia is, for all intents and purposes, the one who needs protecting. The Dragons already protect her in the main game just as soon as they're able.

In other words, Lucia becomes 'Althena' by taking into herself all Althena was. So the Dragonmaster's duty wouldn't be to 'Althena' at all, it'd be to her. Sorta like when Althena died, she left a will to Lucia to inherit her stuff. Including, presumably, the ability to create and benefit from the Dragonmaster.

Now...Lucia's Dragonmaster might not look like Althena's Dragonmaster. She'd put her own personal stamp on the job. And I still say she might have the Star Dragon jump into her version. As part of the NeoDragonmaster's job would therefore naturally be protecting the Blue Star and the bridges thereunto.