dragonmaster for a bad guy

[Alunissage]

Yeah, that's definitely in the notice. Ronfar gets rather annoyed about it. It's just a joke about misrepresentation on a wanted notice, though. He's 17, which led to a question from fans about why he could drink so young. I don't remember if I saw an age in the notice in the import, it's been so long.

And Rich, I understand your irritation, but I think you're missing my point. I've no doubt that Alex and Luna caught up on kissing offcamera; I just liked the ending of holding hands and looking at each other...it seemed to signify facing the future together as a partnership, rather than simply being wrapped up in each other. I suppose put that way maybe it is more appropriate for Lucia and Hiro to kiss since the big deal of that part of the story was her learning to relate to a human and fall in love. And while I do tend to feel a bit weird at weddings, it has nothing to do with insecurity on my part. I'm engaged; I assure you I do not feel threatened by (or envious of) other people kissing.

I'm not shocked at RPing Lucia because you (AA) already told me about that. I don't like RPing and never have, but do what you want.

[Angelalex242]

...It just doesn't seem to fit Leo's character that he'd lie on a wanted notice. Especially about somebody he knows like a brother in law who planned to marry his sister at one point.

[Alunissage]

It may not even have been Leo who put it up, it might be one of his underlings. Or a typo. It's just not that important, okay? If I had to guess I'd put Ronfar in his late twenties and Leo in his early thirties, but that's just me.

[drumlord]

It may not even have been Leo who put it up, it might be one of his underlings. Or a typo. It's just not that important, okay? If I had to guess I'd put Ronfar in his late twenties and Leo in his early thirties, but that's just me.

Sounds about right. Ronfar has to be old enough to actually have a history as a priest and as a gambling drunk type person. At 17 what possible history could he really have? "Oh I remember way back when I was 16 and a half and was a good person..."

[localflick]

I'm a little confused... if people were upset/baffled/bothered by the the notion of a 17 year old drinking Ronfar, where were they for Kyle? Naza has no age limit I guess.

Also I remember a mention of Ronfar being older (in his 40's) in the PSX version of EB. I'm with Drumlord on this one. Especially since his past involved a younger Mauri, who being Leo's little sister looks to be around 8-10 years younger than him in the Mystere bromide. But I already feel like I've read too far into this.

[Angelalex242]

Yeah, the 45 year old version is what I just brought up.

As for Kyle...he was in charge of a bandit orginzation, which is inherently lawless. Furthermore, Kyle was strong enough that anyone who tried to deny him his booze would've met an unpleasant fate on his sword.

Really, if you were just a random NPC, would YOU tell him no?

The only one who could've convinced him to stop drinking (as much, at least...) was the young lady who eventually did.

[GhaleonOne]

Mauri and Ronfar would have to be within a decent age of each other, considering they looked about the same age in their flashback scenes in Raculi. In fact, I'd gather Ronfar only 3 years older than Mauri at the very most. I'm still going to give a 35 to Leo, 30 to Ronfar, Marui somewhere just below that, and 20-ish for Hiro and Lucia (in human years). Lemina's a tough one. She's only one I could see being 16, but even then, I think she's about Hiro and Lucia's age. Jean, probably 20-25ish. I'd say Lunn is the oldest of the four heroes for sure, possible up to 45-50, and Borgan.. well, he's a tough call, but I'd gather around 35-45.

[Sanity]

I agree with most of those ages, but there's one thing I disagree with. Though Ronfar looks around 30, I could have sworn I saw a poster in (EBC) West Nota, saying that one of the "criminals accompanying the destroyer" was "a forty-five (!) year old man, wearing a bandanna." So I'm agreeing with Angelalex242 on that one.

[Alunissage]

Um, did you read the previous page of posts? That poster is what we're talking about. And it's not meant to be read literally any more than Ruby's insinuations about Leo are.

The thing with fans asking about Ronfar's age and drinking refers to Japanese fans playing the Japanese games, in which the ages are given. They're not provided in the WD manuals, probably for the very good reason that they make no bloody sense. I mean, Leo's was given as 18! Figure the logic of him being 18 and his friend and future bro-in-law being 45 and the joke part of the poster should start to sink in.

Kyle also wasn't as much of a drunk in TSS, and the questions I'm talking about were written before SSSC.

[Angelalex242]

Well, if both are taken literally...Leo 35, Ronfar 45...

And Mauri is a younger sister, making her no older then 34...

Well, that makes Ronfar sort of a cradlerobber, but no worse then Hollywood.

[Katze]

Hmm....wow. I never saw Ronfar as being 17. In fact, I still don't.

I agree with GhaleonOne about the ages, although I don't think Lemina is any older than 20. She seems about Hiro's age.

And I guess I'm one of the only ones, but I never thought of Lucia being child-like, not once. I guess, what I always pictured her as being was...I guess I'd like to say "ignorant" when it comes to humans. Whenever Lucia would come across something new, I never thought of it as a child learning something new. It was more like she simply saw something that she didn't understand, and thought "What in the world is that?" It would be like a 20 year old going into a forgein country and not understanding many of the things there. That doesn't really make them childlike, in my opinion, it just makes them...puzzled. Also, I think that Lucia is smart enough to realize if someone is trying to take advantage of her or not. I doubt she would just let Hiro "seduce" her. (I never thought Hiro was trying to do anything of the sort, though. He's just a good guy, so he helped her out, and ended up falling in love with her in the process. That's all.) After all, when he walked in on her bathing, she screamed and hid herself right away. It's not like she was still naive enough to let him stare.

And Lucia's development throughout the game is really what got me to like her. She started out as indifferent and a bit heartless, but by the end she grew into a person who had real human emotions and feelings. I think that she was also quite a bit more knowledgeable about human interactions...knowledgable enough to not be so naive about it, at least. In fact, a big part of the game was Lucia's growth as a "human" (yeah, she's basically a goddess, but...you know what I mean), so the kiss at the end of Eternal Blue Complete was very reasonable, in my opinion.

But then again, that's just how I view things. I'm not saying that's the way the creators intended things to be.

[Angelalex242]

Yeah. The foreign country analogy isn't bad...it's a little more extreme then that, cause she's going to a whole different planet...

I mean, really. If there were martians and breatheable air on Mars, how many of us would do as well as Lucia does assuming we were given nothing more the a universal translator and no time to study culture? The ways and thoughts of the gods are not the ways and thoughts of mortals. They have a totally different perspective.

Lunar 2 takes place in less then a week, here...

[phyco126]

A bit off topic, but still in relation to Cradlerobbing and Hollywood....

A New World (Or whatever that movie is titles, with Collin Ferral) stars a nearly nude girl as pochahoweveryouspellherfrigginname. Surpisingly to me, as nearly nude as she is, she's only a 14 year old actress (maybe older NOW, but certainly not when they made the movie.)

Ah, back on topic. As for the ages of the characters, I thought there was a section in the EBC guide that told you what their ages where. I looked through it, so I guess I was wrong. Somewhere their ages are present, because I still swear that I saw what their ages where at some point. (I.E. Hiro was 17)

[Katze]

Yeah. The foreign country analogy isn't bad...it's a little more extreme then that, cause she's going to a whole different planet...

I mean, really. If there were martians and breatheable air on Mars, how many of us would do as well as Lucia does assuming we were given nothing more the a universal translator and no time to study culture? The ways and thoughts of the gods are not the ways and thoughts of mortals. They have a totally different perspective.

Lunar 2 takes place in less then a week, here...

Yeah, I know it's more extreme, I was just using that to make a point. ^_^;

As for Lunar 2 taking place in less than a week...are you sure? I thought the game took place over the course of a few months, at least. Or are you saying that to US, the players, it takes about a week because that's how long it takes to complete the game?

[Jenner]

Probably depends between games. The Black Dragon seemed male in TSS/SSSC and female in EB/EBC.

This makes sense to me. Dragons can be killed (look at TSS for proof of that), and it's possible that the Black Dragon died between Lunar 1 and 2, and the next Black Dragon born was female.

If that were the case and the black dragon died between TSS & EB wouldn't we have seen a baby black dragon somewhere. Like Nall & Ruby wouldn't the dragon have associated itself with someone with significant importance to the plot? Just my idea.

I know the black dragon died, at least between TSS and EB, because the black dragon LOOKED DIFFERENT in EB then it did in TSS.
I have further proof that you kill the black dragon in Lunar: TSS.

To quote: "*Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap* Very impressive Alex, you just killed the only living remains of your ever becoming a Dragonmaster. You're making this way to easy! Now the Goddess is completely unprotected! She's mine to control! THE WORLD WILL BE MY OYSTER AYH HAHAHAHA! *feet scampering away*"

But, they butchered-- I mean changed the story in Lunar: SSSC and the Black Dragon in SSSC looks just like the Black Dragon in EBC. That always pissed me off. I liked the Black Dragon as a Dracolich.

How is it that Quark lives to be so old, but the non-Ruby red dragon dies at a conveniently young, for a dragon, age? Considering the way Quark looks, he's more than 2,000 years old. I don't see it being possible that there's more than two dragons of one color alive at any time.

If all dragons are like Nall (well, obviously they're not...they decide to be in dragon form all the time...) they stuck with one party, adventure, Dragonmaster, but never just decided to join another group of hopefulls say, 200 years later and be their mascot.

But it could be because there were no Dragonmasters after Alex. So the black dragon of Lunar 2 didn't have a Dragonmaster...

When Quark is killed in Lunar TSS all the other Dragons inexplicably die too. You find all but the Black Dragons as spirits. It's hinted that they cannot live without Quark existing.

"Once I am gone, the Goddess will be vulnerable to attack from Ghaleon. Then only a Dragonmaster can save her. Alex, you must become that Hero."

The Red Dragon spirit at the Shield says something about how the Dragons cannot live without the presence of a Quark. It is vaugely aluded to in Lunar: The Silver Star that the Black Dragon went crazy because she lived in the frontier and the Goddess turned her light away from the Frontier. Without the tangible presence of the Goddess the Black Dragon went insane and started Godzillaing -Dragon Diamond-. Because the Black Dragon already lost her contact with Althena and the Dragons she did not die. (But Alex kills her) The Villagers in Marke mourn for the insane Black Dragon, they tell the history of how the town was founded to keep the Black Dragon locked away.

In SSSC The Dragons are enslaved by Ghaleon and used to power the Grindery. I really didn't like the remake for this and many other reasons 'cause it kinda destroys the purpose of the Talun Mines -.-; One assumes they were all killed by the traumatic experience. Lifeforce ripped from their bodies and all.

What I dont understand about the dragons is WHY there are 2 white dragons in TSS and SSSC.

Also you guys are forgeting about the Star Dragon... that mystery...

and speaking of plot holes...if Lucia has been guarding the Blue Star for so long *ever since zophar caused althena to blast it* why do you only JUST discover the tower that teleports you to the blue star in Lunar 2???

Because Nall didn't know he was the White Dragon just like Luna didn't know she was Althena. They didn't awaken into their full power until they discovered their true identities. Until then the world was without a White Dragon and suffered the consequences.

I assume the Blue Spire and Star Dragon tower had to be FOUND, like Mickey suggests, they were probably hidden.

I'm inclined to agree with ilovemyguitar. Quark does indeed look old, but Lucia looks pretty young for being older than Lunar as we know it. Could be that the power used to create a new young dragon aged him prematurely.

Maybe you forgot that Lucia was sealed in that bloody Green Crystal for all that time, isolated and asleep. The Crystal was probably like a time capsule or a time chamber that stopped Lucia from aging while she waiting for the time to awaken.

The mystery is why there's a seal on the top that only Lucia can open; my best guess on that is that it's something Ghaleon put there using Zophar's power, making it unbreakable to Lemina. (Of course, Ghaleon was also a pure Mazoku, and there likely aren't any of those left in EB's time.)

Maybe the spell is only breakable by Mazoku. Maybe Lucia is a Mazoku, it would explain her uncanny skill with insanely powerful magic.

If Lucia has been on the Blue star since the destruction of it, then why does she only sense that Lunar is In trouble when zophar attacks and there is no althena, and not when ghaleon captures luna, and at this time Luna is Althena. The only reason I can think of is that Zophar used his power to awaken Lucia.

Lucia did not awaken then because before Luna was even Kidnapped Quark had given Alex his blessing to be Dragonmaster by giving him the White Dragon Ring. Lunar had a chance for salvation and rescue in the Dragon Master, Lucia didn't need to wake up. Zophar may have used his power to awaken Lucia, after all, he did use the cult to send Leo out to kill the "Destroyer" it would make sense to awaken her and lure her to Lunar then use your lackeys to kill her off with some lie. But Lucia also could have woken up because Lunar was in obvious iminent danger of Zophar destroying it without a hero to protect it. What, with the Dragon Aura's being stolen and the church of Althena being all corrupted and everything. Either theory is logical.

I wonder what she was planning to DO when she got to Althena's presence on Lunar. She has to find Althena immediately, but why? To tell her she had a bad dream? (Actually, I think Bad Dream is one of Zophar's attacks.) Were they to join power to destroy Zophar? She prioritizes finding Althena over defeating Zophar, so she doesn't expect to be enough to handle Zophar herself, and indeed doesn't challenge him until after taking Althena's power. Another indication that she's weaker than Althena, if that were in doubt.

If you remember the game correctly, Lucia had no faith in the power of humanity. "My mission is to destroy(stop?) Zophar. Unghh! Uaah!" She says, while feverish on the couch in Gwyn's house. Lucia and Zophar both believed that Althena's power was the only way to Defeat/Destroy Zophar. Lucia needed to speak with Althena to tell her about Zophar so she could convince her to use her power to destroy him before he corrupted Lunar. Lucia seemed to believe that restarting again and whiping everything out was a better alternative then letting him corrupt and twist the planet to his own designs. "Althena's power is the power of creation! There can be no creation without destroying the old! Unleashing Althena's power on me will reduce this world to ASH!" But she changed her mind after warming up to the humans. It's obvious Lucia isn't a human as she refers to the rest of the group as "You humans" and "Humans really do have the power to change the world! I believe Hiro, I finally believe!" So la.

[Angelalex242]

...Lucia a Mazoku? I've never heard THAT one before. She sure as heck doesn't look Vile Tribe to me. Also, I don't think a mere Mazoku could control the power of Althena. Control Althena, sure, if you're Ghaleon, but not actually claim her power directly.

Then again, my theories on the matter (She's a Goddess, and therefore, just as immortal as Althena or Zophar) are well documented above...

Also, Lucia claims Ghaleon's using 'a Sacred Spell' in EBC to seal his Garden. Then she further claims only she and Althena should be capable of doing that. Ghaleon, for that matter, could be channeling the power of Zophar to pull that one, or it could be leftover from being in close contact with Dark Althena, who may have shown him how before Alex got up there to rescue her. Lucia does other things like releasing the Power from that gem of Althena in Raculi that I don't quite think Ghaleon could manage. (And that he certainly couldn't manage under Zophar's zombiedom, even if he could pull the trick while alive)

[Kizyr]

Lucia definitely isn't of the Vile Tribe. If anything, she's another celestial being, like Althena or Zophar. Only her domain is over the restoration of the Blue Star, not the existence of Lunar--or the destruction of all creation. KF

[GhaleonOne]

the Black Dragon went insane and started Godzillaing -Dragon Diamond-

*falls over laughing* Seriously, I about spit my water out when I read that. I dunno why it's so funny. Probably because I'm extra tired tonight, but that was a great laugh.

Lucia did not awaken then because before Luna was even Kidnapped Quark had given Alex his blessing to be Dragonmaster by giving him the White Dragon Ring. Lunar had a chance for salvation and rescue in the Dragon Master, Lucia didn't need to wake up. Zophar may have used his power to awaken Lucia, after all, he did use the cult to send Leo out to kill the "Destroyer" it would make sense to awaken her and lure her to Lunar then use your lackeys to kill her off with some lie. But Lucia also could have woken up because Lunar was in obvious iminent danger of Zophar destroying it without a hero to protect it. What, with the Dragon Aura's being stolen and the church of Althena being all corrupted and everything. Either theory is logical.

I always figured Lucia just woke up because she sensed something was threatening the very existance of Lunar (rather than just someone like Ghaleon, or perhaps Ignatius?, trying to rule it). Two theories on the destroyer issue:

1) Zophar likely commanded the False Althena to "prophecy" a coming destroyer, knowing Lucia would show up at the Blue Spire. He likely had the Fake Althena or Ghaleon send Leo out to dispatch of Lucia.

2) It was a legit prophecy, and this is more likely, as I think I remember it being said much later in the game that Zophar was the true destroyer. Zophar just twisted this prophecy to make it seem like Lucia was the true destroyer.

Regarding Lucia's mission to find Althena. She didn't even seem to realize Zophar was around until he actually showed up. She did try and call for the Dragons to dispatch of him, though they were sealed away already. My guess is, she felt something horrible had gone wrong on Lunar, came down to it, and was trying to find Althena to figure out what was going on. Zophar popped along, and she knew either she or Althena would have to do the same as they did with the Blue Star in order to remove him. After he cursed her, she realized something was terribly wrong, and needed to find Althena. She was likely confused all the way to Pentigulia, wondering why Althena hadn't done something already. And remember, she couldn't feel Althena's presense to begin with. Her mission was nothing more than to stop Zophar at all costs, in any way possible. Finding Althena was the most logic considering her illness.

[Alunissage]

I don't remember any allusions to the Black Dragon's insanity being connected to Althena's Light not shining on the Frontier. Time to dig through the text dump again, I guess.

[Angelalex242]

A random thought just occurred to me.

There's 3 fates.

Clotho, who creates the thread of life. (Althena?)
Lachesis, who assigns destinies to people. (Lucia?)
Atropos, who destroys the thread of life. (Zophar?)

...anyone else seeing what I'm seeing, or am I smoking the good stuff again?