I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

This board is for general discussion of Lunar. Especially things such as Lunar merchandise, general discussions about the story that span more than one game, etc.
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I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:00 pm

I just came to the realization that this series is better off without any more games. At least unless times change.
The best versions of Lunar are in between Sega CD and PS1. After that, it's either been hardware limitations (GBA), poor sales (PSP) or poor development (DS).
Oh, and glitches (iOS)
I just try to imagine if a new Lunar came out today, whether it is Lunar 2, 3, Magic School, or yet another remake of 1, and I can't imagine a proper place for the game anymore. I would have picked the PS Vita (I even mentioned it in an email to GameArts!), since it's such a powerful handheld, but the sales would be even less than half those of Silver Star Harmony. I'm glad they didn't pay me much attention :) If it had been for me, the company would be bankrupt.
(Sorry for that email, GameArts!! You can continue doing what you were doing...)
On 3DS, it might work, it might even have great sales, but it would be limited in hardware. For what the game deserves, it's best not compressed in any way for 3DS. I imagine that it would be less good looking than the PSP remake of Lunar 1, considering that there have to be high quality movies. iOS is outta the picture. Lunar 1 is good on iOS, but anything more complex than that is not going to make it.

But what about big consoles? Wii U, PS4 and XBox One. The only one I know about is the Wii U, because I own one, and I know that it's struggling commercially so far.
I think that PS4 is probably doing great, but if it was made for that system, it would be too much of a huge project, and in the end would still have poor sales most likely.
We will have Pier Solar HD released for a lot of systems (Including Wii U and PS4). That's the closest we are getting to Lunar any soon, since that game itself takes inspiration from the series!
Only after that game is released we will know what platform Lunar WOULD perform best.

And no. Bravely Default's success says nothing about Lunar having chances on 3DS, since that is a 3D RPG and story-wise very different than Lunar.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Leo » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:09 am

It needs to be one with a whole new cast of characters. Changing voice actors bothers me immensely and is a big reason for why I won't replay Silver Star Harmony. It would need to be hyped incredibly well on the 3DS so people wouldn't assume it would be a turd like Dragon Song. I'm not entirely sure if that would work, though. Red Steel on the Wii got a sequel that I hear addressed almost every issue that people took with the original but it still saw poor sales.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Enclave » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:01 am

I'm not too interested in a Lunar 3 because Lunar is very much a product of the time it was made in. SSS and EB are heavily based on early 90s anime. The character designs, character personalities, the optimistic plots, and lighthearted humor that make up SSS and EB and are all very early 90s. The problem is that it's no longer the early 90s, and things have changed a lot. Moe, fangirl bait everywhere, and angry protagonists are now the biggest trends in anime, and frankly I don't see how those could work in Lunar without taking away from what makes Lunar what it is to me.

Dragon Song shows what happens when you try to inject modern anime into Lunar. The girls look a lot more cutesy than SSS and EB's girls and Jian is an angry protagonist that's out to prove himself. However, Jian lacks the fun and amusing elements that Hiro and Alex have because of how hot-blooded he is, and the girls look a bit more innocent and sweet than even Luna was. I could buy someone like Jean, Jessica, EB Lucia, and Lemina as people willing to get their hands dirty, but I can't see the DS girls as being willing to kick butt and take names because of how cutesy they are.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:47 am

Leo, Silver Star Harmony's voice acting was not too bad! Some things were done better than the previous acting, other things not so much. The game is still perfect to me. It's a matter of taste. And yes, Dragon Song... ugh... why?
I mean look, I liked Dragon Song. Everyone's gonna hate me, but I'd take Dragon Song 2 :P If only it meant that only I would play it, and that it wouldn't ruin Lunar's reputation any further, that is.

Ahhh, Enclave, you posted a very interesting point which even I sometimes mention: It's no longer 1990's.
And that it wouldn't work with today's type of anime.
Yes, I think I can agree with almost all you said!
And yes it would be pointless to disagree anyway because we're not getting any Lunar games.
BUT STILL!!
You are vastly underestimating Lunar's power! Did you know that humans only use a fraction of their capacity?
An inspired team with experience could do it. You still could have a Lunar game that is true to its origin, and yet wisely gives an answer to today's trends and stuff. Great games still get made sometimes you know? And by people who are few in numbers, too. Because they know what they're doing, and are motivated and determined by something.
Besides, a good product is a good product. It doesn't have to be too faithful if it's still great in content. It doesn't have to "rip-off" LSSSC like Dragon Song did. There is seriously no limit to how good a game can be.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Shiva Indis » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:54 pm

Enclave wrote:The character designs, character personalities, the optimistic plots, and lighthearted humor that make up SSS and EB and are all very early 90s. The problem is that it's no longer the early 90s, and things have changed a lot.

There's still a market for all of these elements, excepting possibly the character designs. Most of what fits this bill just gets funneled to Nintendo platforms now. There may even be a viable opening for JRPGs again after the success of Bravely Default.

That said, I've been thinking about the potential benefits of having Lunar branch out from the JRPG formula if someone was to try making another game from scratch. Don't mess with the elements it has, ('cause I gotta have that old school) but integrate a major something new. We live in a world where you can spend $5 and download a 30 hour JRPG -- the ante is higher than it used to be.
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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Leo » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:30 am

I'd be happy with a 3DS English version of Lunar: Magic School that addresses the encounter rate that I hear is overwhelming.

Dragon Song 2? How about sequels to Superman 64, Quest 64, Chameleon Twist and Shaq Fu? lol

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Enclave wrote:Dragon Song shows what happens when you try to inject modern anime into Lunar.

BTW... That Eren from Attack on Titan... he just makes me imagine an angry Alex.
His father even told him to go to the basement in the beginning of the series!! I was like WAT.

Imagine that in SSSC, spent the whole game wondering what was in the basement at your house cause monsters came in and ate/destroyed everything and you had to escape to Meribia to be trained by Hell Mel.
............. Not a game I'd like to see *Ahem* just pointing out the funny fact :P

Leo wrote:I'd be happy with a 3DS English version of Lunar: Magic School that addresses the encounter rate that I hear is overwhelming.


You have heard right. The encounter rate is really high. I played through the Game Gear version with not much issues.
But I tried the Saturn version once and holy crap was it exhausting. Would still play If I knew Japanese or if it got translated! Even without the fix!

Leo wrote:Dragon Song 2? How about sequels to Superman 64, Quest 64, Chameleon Twist and Shaq Fu? lol

LOL weeeeeeeell......... to be perfectly honest, Dragon Song is a very fine game when you put it next to Superman 64 and Shaq Fu!!! Quest 64, I do not know. Maybe that too. See? Dragon Song may be a very bad Lunar, but it's still not the worst game. I've played Metroid Prime 2, Metroid Prime Hunters, Zelda Wind Waker... these 3 are much more horrendous than Dragon Song. Yet they were highly acclaimed.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Leo » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:38 pm

Aside from being too easy, what was wrong with Wind Waker?

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:16 am

Leo wrote:Aside from being too easy, what was wrong with Wind Waker?


Well let me start by saying that taste affects someone's review! I see that the majority of people liked the game, so it must be good I guess? but I, having already played a lot of videogames, I have something bad to say about almost everything in the game.

It is not a Zelda game to me. It is just something else entirely and not in a good way even. Do you remember A Link to the Past? That game was mystical and majestic. For those that aren't sure what these words mean: A link to the past inspires a sense of spiritual mystery and fascination, and was really a worthy successor to the 2 previous games, Zelda 1 and 2 on NES.
Those games were great, but A link to the past took that and improved it in an almost infinite amount of times. A link to the past will never get old. Navigating the overworld in Alttp is so addictive, fun and interesting, that even after having beaten the game several times, I'm just more amazed by how well it is designed. That sense of wonder is always there. Same for the dungeons. The music is deep, completely original, and never has a dull moment, only re-using the main overworld theme, which was improved beautifully from 8 bit to 16 bit. Switching between light and dark worlds only added twice the excitement to an already tight game. All characters and story have this thing about them... nothing like it had been seen in Zelda or any other games before. It all felt inspired and with a purpose. The ending felt like a real conclusion and left me with a nice feeling when I completed the game.

Wind Waker? Just throw a character in a vast, uninteresting ocean full of little islands with useless things to do in each one of them. Music? They reused a lot from OoT, and it sounded better in OoT. The game has like 90 music tracks, and I only liked about 2 or 3. Lots of dull music. Most of the characters and things that you do/events that happen are just taken from OoT and disguised under a different look. Like you said, the game was easy, so the dungeons were easy too, but the first one was really LONG. I thought the whole game was going to be about sneaking into a giant endless fortress with lights looking for you a la Metal Gear Solid. I was shocked that I could actually get out of that place. The ending of the game is nothing sort of exciting. Just a good bye as Link embarks on a new adventure... to make it even less epic, the music that plays in this scene is one you had already heard before in the game. Only to find out that Zelda gets captured in the next game!!!!! Sweet Lord. I rate this game 5/10, it had good things, like gameplay control and a beautiful graphic engine, other than that, there's little to see or fun to be had.

All in all, I feel that Lunar SSSC and Zelda Alttp have a lot more greatness in common than Alttp and Wind Waker........ >___>

If Wind Waker MUST be something else entirely, why couldn't it be more epic, like Suikoden 1 or 2?
Why does it have to be silly, empty and boring?

And now the question everyone's been waiting for!!! =D

How is Dragon Song better? Well it had good original music. It had an actual world map, which is easy to navigate, and nice to the eyes. Wind Waker's blue ocean is not that nice to the eyes after a few, nor does it even look like a world map. It just look like a square with a perfect grid of unnaturally placed islands. Dragon Song had a lot of dialogue with those NPCs, believe it or not. Even though there were typos here and there, but there's more content to see than Wind Waker. The story? ....... I will go with Dragon Song's. I remember having questions about the plot after I finished the game. It wasnt the best, but it was good. I was also shocked and surprised by the ending of the game with a few of the lines! For example the very end when you think you're gonna fight the last boss. All in all, Dragon Song had its surprises, Wind Waker did not. The only thing that Dragon Song is not better at than Wind Waker is the battle system.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Sonic# » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:22 pm

Well let me start by saying that taste affects someone's review!


Wow, yes! Reading what you wrote, I found out a lot about how strongly you felt about it. You use a lot of emotional words (uninteresting, dull) without giving an explanation that lets me see, "Oh, yes, that's how you got to that conclusion." It doesn't really elaborate why the game is horrendous to you, only that it is. Of course you are entitled to all of these experiences, but it does not really overturn the arguments that Wind Waker is good, or the reasons why consensus does exist on the topic among critics. Metacritic is an inexact tool, but a 37 point difference in rating is not a trifling indicator of quality.

Shiva wrote:

That said, I've been thinking about the potential benefits of having Lunar branch out from the JRPG formula if someone was to try making another game from scratch. Don't mess with the elements it has, ('cause I gotta have that old school) but integrate a major something new. We live in a world where you can spend $5 and download a 30 hour JRPG -- the ante is higher than it used to be.


I would be fine with this. Expecting the game to have similar systems to what it did 15 years ago is rather hopeful, to say the least. Bravely Default ostensibly keeps the old JRPG patterns, but it does so by adding and remixing a lot of mechanics to good effect - being able to control things like encounter rates, switch freely between classes to strategic effect, and otherwise interrupting patterns that have traditionally been determined by the game. It is both within the genre and something new.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:16 pm

Sonic# wrote:It doesn't really elaborate why the game is horrendous to you

Hmmm... really? :P I mean, besides the music and the words uninteresting and dull, I also explained the design of the world map, which was lazy. A grid of islands! And btw, each island has the silliest shape and name. There's this island called Shark Island. And it's shaped like shark. Hurrrg! They made a funny. Paw print isle. And it's shaped like a paw print...... all these things are just there to be there, without any creativity or importance. And it's a chore too, most of these islands are filled with just things you don't even need unless you're a completionist.

Have you ever actually completed the map? I mean look. In castlevania for example, you make the map as you explore. Or you can buy a portion of the map too, depending where you are in the game, but it's only like 5 portions that you get to buy. And it's really easy to fill it up, just walk through the castle. Looking at the map later will tell you exactly where you have been and where you haven't. Kinda like MegaMan Legends too. Kinda like Zelda Link's Awakening too!
In A link to the past, you see the whole map from the very start of the game.
In Wind Waker? you have to visit each part of the map individually (in a grid of 7x7 blocks) AND find a fish in the water AND feed him something so he draws 1 block in your map. You have to do this like 49 times. I dont remember if there are 2 or 3 that fill up automatically, but that's still over 40 times. If that doesn't scream bad game to you, I dont know what does. And what with all these sea charts containing rupees? Why must you have a menu full of seacharts you dont need? All just to get rupees? Doing this kinda stuff was really lame. It's not like in Dragon Song, that you go fight monsters for items and then deliver them. As tedious as that was, it still was a better idea than Wind Waker's useless sea charts. Compare that to "there will be no finer gaming experience this year. [Mar 2003, p.24], Play Magazine"
That must have been a bad year in gaming, unless you're referring ONLY to the game's control. Which I've heard people say is clunky even! (I disagree, but there.)
Or compare that to "It's Zelda's unrivaled design, balanced and varied (IGN)". How is this game balanced and varied? How is it better balanced than Alttp or OoT or MM?
BTW, you say that I just use words to express my strong feelings against the game, but not explain why I got to that conclusion. But a quick look at MetaCritic's page for Wind Waker, I just see all shallow "This is the greatest Zelda game" or "Best game of the year" stuff. While if you look at Dragon Song's page in MetaCritic, you at least get an explanation of why it's bad and why it's good and from different sources.

Oh and wait, I didn't even talk about the "Wind Waker" wand itself. You have to play a song every time you want to change the direction in which you travel, and then watch the brief animation of it changing. Did you know that this was fixed in the remake, and that there is a faster "sail" in the remake too? Yeah. Those fixes just acknowledge the heavy flaws of the original. Does that not tell you something? Wind Waker has a world of room for improvement even after that. A Link Between Worlds? That game tells me that Alttp had little to no room for improvement.

I explained the story too, did I not? At least the ending... I wonder, what does the original Hyrule under the water have to do with Link embarking on a new adventure at the end of the game? Or Zelda being a pirate? It all seems like random things put together without a purpose. What does it matter that the Link you control is not the same guy from the previous game? In the end, you're still a kid on a boat. It sounds like random stories with Zelda names thrown in to me. Ocarina of Time for example, the story amounts to something, and that is by traveling through time, Link was able to fix the future, so that he could go back and live life normally as a child. It was touching seeing him meet young Zelda, knowing all they went through as adults. In Wind Waker, it wasn't touching at all to see Link set off on a new adventure. I had already been gone from home the whole game! What's the difference? Link is going to return home again whenever he wants. How does this compare to Dragon Song? Dragon Song had a fine ending in comparison... Jian makes a big decision that I had never seen in a game before. It was dramatic.

Well, I hope I did a slightly better explaining facts. :P
This is all without taking in consideration that Wind Waker was made by a company full of man-power and a legendary record. While Dragon Song was made by Game Arts............... a company who's name only a few people have heard of. Most people think Lunar was made by Working Designs XD.

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Sonic# » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:13 pm

A little better, and thank you for taking the effort to write that. However, I just don't think that your opinion of the game justifies calling Wind Waker a bad game. For instance, with the map, I don't think there's anything intrinsically boring about having islands in different shapes. The grid is a layout for a map. It is fine to wish it were the more traditional Zelda map, but they often used grids too. And other well-acclaimed games center on the exploration of islands that sometimes have cutesy names. Given that the style of most Zelda games is rather fanciful and allegorical rather than realistic and historical, it sounds like you personally dislike the game's mode.

Nor is a mechanic done 49 times automatically useless when the game takes place over dozens of hours. Should I resent the dozens of times I had to use the same grappling hook mechanic to open a door in a dungeon? The dozens of times I had to put an island down in Dragon Warrior VII? The many times in Skies of Arcadia that I run back and forth between my ship and the engineer who upgrades my island when I leave the island and return? The many times I have to travel to a certain place at a certain time to talk to a certain person to obtain a bromide in the first two Lunars? The repetition is a characteristic of the genre as a whole, and seems pretty typical compared to its peers. At most, it would be a little stylistic choice that I disagree with, not something implicitly more ridiculous than clearing maps of monsters dozens of times.

This gives little ground for challenging reviews.
Compare that to "there will be no finer gaming experience this year. [Mar 2003, p.24], Play Magazine"
That must have been a bad year in gaming, unless you're referring ONLY to the game's control. Which I've heard people say is clunky even! (I disagree, but there.)


High praise in the year of Beyond Good and Evil, the original Call of Duty, Star Wars: KOTOR, and Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire.

Or compare that to "It's Zelda's unrivaled design, balanced and varied (IGN)". How is this game balanced and varied? How is it better balanced than Alttp or OoT or MM?


The review may answer why they think it's balanced and varied, though you wouldn't find them saying it's "better balanced than (games)." I assume the "varied" has to do with all the many different locations and places to explore, for instance. The review is a good example of acknowledging a few rough features without condemning the game outright. It comments on the repetition of using the Wind Waker and the inability to skip the animation. It is a flaw, but it doesn't blemish all the good stuff in the game.

Those fixes just acknowledge the heavy flaws of the original.


That's not a "heavy flaw." Yes, these corrections streamline the game, but this is a case of making a good game better. It is like lowering the encounter rate in Skies of Arcadia: Legends. The encounter rate wasn't a "heavy flaw," but many people did find it a slightly less enjoyable grind. A small correction was followed by a small victory. The animation and the sail are similar small corrections. Even if it were a larger correction, that wouldn't condemn the game as flawed. For instance, Lunar SSSC had Luna accompanying Alex, a significant change to the plot because it gave Luna more presence in the story. Was Lunar: TSS terribly flawed because it didn't make this choice? Not necessarily, since it's still a very enjoyable game.

I wonder, what does the original Hyrule under the water have to do with Link embarking on a new adventure at the end of the game? Or Zelda being a pirate? It all seems like random things put together without a purpose.


Hyrule is under the water because in this game it had previously been sunk in order to prevent Ganon from taking it, because when Ganon had revived that time, there had been no hero to stop him. The islands show a persistent hope of living, even after all but the highest points of the kingdom have been washed away. In this game, Ganon's quest is to try to revive Hyrule so he can take it. The king's own wish at the end countermands it, sending Hyrule under the waves again. However, this decision has a reason: Ganon is dependent on the old world, whereas Link and Zelda can go forth and find a new land for their hopes and dreams. It's the promise of happiness and more adventure, a common ending to stories. As for Zelda being Tetra the pirate, why not? The Kingdom of Hyrule is destroyed, so in this iteration of the hero story, Zelda cannot be a princess. So she goes with her renegade persona. Because the Sheikah are gone, she cannot become Sheik. That leaves a pirate.

So, perhaps this kind of attitude is what is bothering me the most. It is fine to have opinions on games and even to dislike games strongly. It is problematic to claim that a game seems like "random things put together without a purpose" when a game clearly has a purpose and has made clear design choices from the beginning. That kind of opinion conflates your own reception of the game with the game itself. Just because it didn't interest you enough to follow the ligaments of the story, that does not means the game itself is purposeless.

Overall, maybe this long aside can be useful. Rather than trying to compare each game for its flaws, what if we pick out what could be good for Lunar? What if the next Lunar game were more like Wind Waker, in the sense of allowing travel through the world, perhaps including by boat, with a lot to explore. That would combine what was great about the TSS map (its implying places upon places to explore) with one thing amazing about Lunar itself - its world.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby jay_are » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:26 pm

Long post ahead. I hope it's fun! *gives you a ladder in case you want to skip it*

Sonic# wrote:A little better, and thank you for taking the effort to write that.

Whew!

Sonic# wrote:I just don't think that your opinion of the game justifies calling Wind Waker a bad game.

Hmmmm...

Sonic# wrote:It is fine to wish it were the more traditional Zelda map, but they often used grids too.

Wait whaaaaaaaat. Never did you have to go to each part of the grid in Zelda 1 to go talk to a fish to feed him something so he draws a part of the map. Each block in that grid can be walked by pleasantly in a few seconds. You get to recognize the places, because each screen has a different layout of mountains and trees/objects. You somehow know what screen is next after you've walked by it once or twice. Just like any other place in games/real life. *sigh* A link to the past hardly counts as a grid :P that's just 3x3. Each place is just divided by forest, castle, mountain, town, lake...you can also walk through almost the whole map in a few minutes. But look, it's not the fact the it's a grid, its not that I dislike grids, it's the fact that it's too large, too many places you don't need to visit (but end up going to anyway cause you can't just ignore the game!) which wastes a lot of time. And you often see something you can't get cause you don't have the tool to do it yet... so you have to travel here later. In other words, it's broken. It doesnt work. It does not entertain, it's like a job to do, not a game, and the fact that WW is the only Zelda of its kind pretty much proves it. It's not like Zelda Alttp (which itself is an improved version of Zelda 1 and 2), these games inspired all the GB/GBC/GBA Zeldas.
Even Alundra and Brave Fencer Musashi took notice that this gameplay is gold. What games have tried to mimic Wind Waker? Very few, if any...

Speaking of time, I heard Dragon Warrior VII is over a hundred hours or so, the fastest. Sadly, I haven't played it, but just because Dragon Warrior VII is like that, doesn't mean that it's a good thing to do in games! I will likely take points off for that too, just like WW.

Sonic# wrote:Should I resent the dozens of times I had to use the same grappling hook mechanic to open a door in a dungeon?
Well, I am no one to tell you what to resent and what not to resent :P I know, but if I must:
No, because that's like resenting how many times you've jumped on a goomba in mario. It's just something that takes seconds to do, and is satisfying to see/hear/perform. Everyone wants to play it after they see something like that. So the grappling hook is great.

Sonic# wrote:The many times in Skies of Arcadia that I run back and forth between my ship and the engineer who upgrades my island when I leave the island and return?

I haven't played it but, if it's something repetitive with like nothing new each time you do it, or a repetitive tiring music in the background, or you do a lot of walking to do this and there's loading times on top of that, then yes you should most likely resent it!

Sonic# wrote:The many times I have to travel to a certain place at a certain time to talk to a certain person to obtain a bromide in the first two Lunars?

NEVAR! Lunar has the nicest music out of all these games. The cutest looking graphics, and the most interesting dialogue coming from those NPCs that seemingly change each time something happens. Talking to people in Lunar almost feels like an improved version of real life. It is a rich experience. As repetitive as it sounds to talk to every NPC, this is Lunar we're talking here. The game that is almost defined by its dialogue. I ALWAYS find something that is so much fun that I have to show it to a friend. Bromides are secret extra items, btw, that does not compare to anything in Wind Waker involving heart pieces, charts, maps, upgrades, pieces of the triforce in the ocean, etc...

Sonic# wrote:For instance, Lunar SSSC had Luna accompanying Alex, a significant change to the plot because it gave Luna more presence in the story

That is not a gameplay improvement, that is a story change to offer something new, it doesn't say anything about the original being bad, what that tells me is that the creators want to surprise me with new content. They are too nice! It immediately gives you a sense of wonder and excitement about what else has changed. A game improvement itself would be the smaller dungeons... and nicer sound effects. (TSS has some serious *hit* sound effects in battles and stuff...) Which is easily overlooked because you just can't hear it over the sound of an amazing soundtrack.

Sonic# wrote:What if the next Lunar game were more like Wind Waker

NOHHH

Sonic# wrote:in the sense of allowing travel through the world, perhaps including by boat, with a lot to explore.

Oh, sorry. Well, Lunar 2 kinda already did this! You get to explore part of Lunar 1. And that is just SWEET. That is almost comparable to Zelda's light and dark worlds. In Lunar 3, you should be able to explore how the Lunar 2 world has evolved. So yes!!

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Sonic#
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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Sonic# » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:06 am

But look, it's not the fact the it's a grid, its not that I dislike grids, it's the fact that it's too large, too many places you don't need to visit (but end up going to anyway cause you can't just ignore the game!) which wastes a lot of time.


I misunderstood a bit in thinking your gripe was with the grids. Still, your statement basically says that exploring places one does not need to visit is a waste of time. Again, I don't think that's the case. Skies of Arcadia's discoveries weren't a waste. Nor has been wandering to places on the map in Alundra. Even when I find places I can't access at that moment, travel and finding potentially new areas is a common pattern in games, and many people (including me) like it. Heck, even you like it - when it's Lunar SSSC or Lunar EBC. You are only able to say Wind Waker is different through listing all of the little pieces one has to collect. While I'd agree Wind Waker's exploration is somewhat different, it sounds like the difference is not one of value (good, bad), but of what each game is accomplishing with its exploration and other systems. All are accomplished, well-designed games with some small flaws.

What games have tried to mimic Wind Waker? Very few, if any...


That question is as difficult to answer as "What games have tried to mimic Lunar?" Few games mimic Lunar. Many games take some cues and elements that feature prominently in Lunar. Wind Waker has several elements that appear in lots of games: the large world map, the emphasis on exploration even to the point of taking considerable time to traverse a map, puzzle-based gameplay, cel-shading, post-apocalyptic settings, island-based settings.

That said, there have been a few games that seem particularly evocative of Wind Waker coming out in the last couple of years: A Hat in Time, Rime, Oceanhorn. The ability to say a game is "like Wind Waker" seems to suggest that it has a distinct style that people look for.

Well, Lunar 2 kinda already did this!


A bit. The overworld map was still like the original Lunar's though. I mean breaking up that kind of similarity and making it more expansive, like Dragon Quest VIII or (yes) Wind Waker.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

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Re: I'm glad we aren't getting Lunar 3!

Postby Shiva Indis » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:52 pm

Leo wrote:Dragon Song 2? How about sequels to Superman 64, Quest 64, Chameleon Twist and Shaq Fu? lol

What's that you say? A sequel to Shaq Fu?
「まあいいけど。」


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