Gender and Lunar

This board is for general discussion of Lunar. Especially things such as Lunar merchandise, general discussions about the story that span more than one game, etc.
Alis
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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alis » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:36 pm

Sorry if I went all off topic on you, I really wanted to address the whole Lunar & Gender thing, but I couldn't come up with anything after "boy get dressed so much faster than girls, LOL" /gender roles. Because I couldn't really figure out the whole point of your topic or your actual opinions on Lunar & Gender.
Besides, I almost got brain damage after reading that you got the idea the Vile Tribe sisters were "epitome of baddies" because of how they were dressed. I had to literally punch my ovaries back into my abdomen to keep them from jumping into the keyboard and typing horrible horrible vulgarities regarding how people in the 21st century still operate in a binary 1+1 type of logic that equals being lightly/provocatively/sensually dressed with evil. I mean, it doesn't even make sense within the world of Lunar's logic. There are like 1 bromide per character in both games, or so, showing the characters almost naked, even the male characters! More so, Jean's dancer outfit is quite revealing and she's still one of the most kind hearted characters in Lunar 2, and one of the most valuable fighters (in my opinion, more than Leo or Kyle =P ).

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Alunissage
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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alunissage » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:28 pm

Alis, I agree with you, but there IS a trope that less clothing = more evil, at least in some contexts. Dark Althena is an extreme example. Barua. It's probably not coincidental that of the three sisters, the one who is closest to good is the one who is most covered up. (As for why this is, I would guess that its roots have to do with evil succubi who control men -- because it's always all about the men -- via their base impulses vs virtuous women who are modest and covered. But that's going back several centuries and nothing specific to do with Lunar.) I don't like this trope, and its reduction to the binary of does a woman have sex appeal to a man, but have to acknowledge it exists.

On the other hand, there's a very obvious counterexample in Lunar: Lucia. We first see her completely naked, then completely covered up, then when she tries to be more human and less obviously alien, she changes to a relatively brief outfit of shorts and off-shoulder top. She returns to her uniform when she is confronting Zophar, but returns to her other outfit when she is deciding to be more human (which in this series = good) at the end. That's in addition to your Jean example, of course, where her less-covered outfit is the one showing her rejection of the cruel assassin role she'd been forced into. There aren't that many characters who change outfits in Lunar, so it's a little hard to find other examples. Just thought of one more, though: Mauri.

There's a lot more that could be said in that vein, but I'm already pretty late for work, so I'd better leave it at that for now.

TempestOne

Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:00 pm

It does sound like you all got your feelings hurt. And, are taking it out on me by picking and choosing out a comment that doesn't even relate to the first, original topic (now) at hand which involved your favorite sprite or animated .gif. You chose to make the comment about how it compares to everything real-life you're going through right now. I am fine with that statement because I clearly expressed it and just because you do not understand doesn't mean it didn't make sense to me, or to others that might have read it who just aren't registered. Alex's transformation scene was, like, 4-14 seconds compared to all the other scenes in the video game and even something like Mia walking over to you took like 14 seconds in itself. Can I say Alex's said scene was more important, to me, yes. But I can't hate on Mia either because that's her, ''intro sequence.'' So what are you even saying? Split this topic up again right here and make it a bashing on girls in pajamas, ''lol.'' It's a legitimate word in the English dictionary, surprise, times are changing...? All I honestly heard was a whiney speech. I just play video games, that's my interpretation, here on this message board. We're all gameheads here; Boys exist in video game culture, too, it's not just a girls club because that's all who you choose to hang out with in your real-life in the past, present and future of your Team (Animal). I have nothing else to say in this thread because y'all do not know how to relate to video gameheads on the street. It's fine if you choose to Myght away onlines, but real people, play video games, also. Nobody has the time to edit, and re-edit when they're talking to you in a point-blank fashion in face-to-face contact. This is a business, too, and it isn't just Fairyology 101 on an online college course up here on Lunarthreads.com, ''yo,'' if you're trying so much to stay all intellect-y... what do you want from people... to make you cry online or something? One of my former acquaintances (gasp at a i-r-life reference, so against the rules) just said, ''You need help.'' Sorry, they're sitting next to me right now. Figure out if that's a real, real-life example with your goddess-like powers said under your username.
Look, you have control over your own thought patterns when it physically manifests itself through your text and I felt I kept my composure when being virtually, ''yelled,'' at, which even I know is the worst-looking online faux pas you can ever make. Take my quote out of context as much as you want, split this post up again (gasp at reiteration!). I do not feel you are doing the world of LunAr justice with your attitude towards other fans within it's fandom we have here. If you love the girls of video games so much, shouldn't you be a littlest bit kinder or nicer? Shouldn't you be posting about how strong of a girl you've come to be? Do you collect tithes for, ''Althena,'' still? I felt more of a relationship with the fans of this video game, almost more than the video game itself and that's something I can say has brought me to this point here, right now striving to do anything it takes to even be a sandwich board holder for a company ('cause I can and I want to) and for you to, honestly, look like you had a freak-out over a spoilered comment which you chose to highlight over out of your own volition, and you take it out on me, making your own generalizations on someone's character who you've never even met before really speaks a lot for how much of a vessel of (random deity here) you've become. So what if I chose to do foot traffic for the video game while you stayed online, and did study buddy time, that's fine. I feel you've lost your faith, so sorry on you.
(Yes. More LunAr discussion... 8-))

*****

All I remember from that cut scene of Alex's transformation into the Dragonmaster is they actually kept the Japanese voice actor in, as well and I thought that was kind of, ''skimpy,'' of them to do when I first saw, then heard of it and made that connection to the first moment in time. There is the whole, entire ''girls take a long time to dress,'' vs. ''boys are faster,'' when it comes to those types of scenes in anime/video game culture. And, this is me juxtaposing it to the animes that I have seen within that time-frame. It's mega-weird taking an example from what happened 5-6 minutes ago to what happened in LunAr®: Silver Star Story Complete just because it's there... it just won't jive up! That's why I keep all examples within that specific video game itself, not even box jumping from one season to another, even within a series. This is the video game platform, not books, not movies, not even anime... discussions on this type of a hobby crosses multiple cultures, and we literally wouldn't be talking about it right now if it didn't make the translation from Japan to America and it really does do it's fan base a disservice, acting like that dancing baby over a throwaway comment because, ''Oh my gosh, is he making fun of Xena: Warrior Princess?(??)'' We're the most important aspect of keeping it alive. (Just found out about Kickstarter.com.) I am being nice-sounding, and I am being chocolate cordial with the denizens of Lunarthreads.com... it's cool-looking here, but your presence could really use a few touch-ups. You, in general. Whoopsie! Restrain me, haha.
The party I had at the time found that scene stripper-ish, face it. Because girls are always pulling the strings behind the main baddie, right? It's smarter to believe that... unless we'll make an exception for that cannon-fodder of a timeless saying just in this instance to not demean inanimate objects, even. That's all I have to say about those baddies, who cares... targets in the video game.
Alis, this thread was split from a comment about animated sprites/.gifs in the video game, to, ''boobs = always a 'good' person in video game(s)!'' so it's no wonder you have no idea what's going on. When I read it, it's about how Dragonmaster Alex was ready for battle compared to all the girl bad guys in the video game, plus whether or not the Black Dragon itself was a female, haha. This topic is a complete sham. Sham-Wows for thread number four!

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Alunissage
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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alunissage » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:41 pm

1) We don't care about your IRL experiences and acquaintances, at least not in the context of discussing online standards. We're an online community. Behavior here > behavior elsewhere, because THIS is where we socialize. I haven't said anything about my offline Lunar/gaming-related interactions other than the story of other gaming females, because it's not relevant. But since you seem to want to pull that sort of thing in, I'll tell you that when I was reading out loud one of your earlier posts my husband begged me to stop talking because he was losing IQ points from hearing your words. Do you care about this? Probably not. So why would you expect me to care about what your IRL friends think?

2) The original thread was NOT a "favorite sprite or animated GIF" thread; it was a request for a resource. You decided to drop in an off-topic opinion about a cutscene. Again, that's not necessarily a problem in itself, but don't misrepresent it. We value accuracy here.

3) Spoiler tags are irrelevant in this context. I'm staff; of course I read everything. They're not a way for you to say that you shouldn't be held accountable for what you tagged as a spoiler.

4) I haven't said anything about what I'm going through right now (other than that I have to go to work sometimes), what I do in real life, what my background is... you keep making these assumptions. As Sonic# noted, you don't have access to that information. Foot traffic vs study buddy? Where does this even come from?

5) Sure, you can talk more informally elsewhere, in person, etc. But in THIS online community we have a preference for posts that make sense and actually communicate. You don't need to agree with that style, but it's not going to change to suit you. There's a whole Internet out there where you can say what you want, how you want; this space does not need to conform to you. If we want to have an "online college course" at lunarthreads.com, we can do so, and it's certainly not your place to tell us how the community that's been here for well over a decade chooses to interact. If you don't like it that way, then leave.

6) You're pretty mistaken about how clearly you express yourself. At least two other people besides me have mentioned this. When you get feedback from multiple people about things you say and how you say them that disagrees with your viewpoint, entertain the possibility that you may be the one in the wrong. See also: "hurt feelings", "freak-out", "misunderstanding" ... you are quick to find reasons to dismiss criticism of you. Saying something you said is stupid and sexist is not freaking out or expressing hurt feelings. It is a request to stop getting your stupid all over our nice clean boards, though.

7) To you, being a fan of the game means... well, I'm not entirely sure, but you sure seem to feel there's only one right way when you say someone else isn't doing justice to the series or has lost their faith or whatever. To me, a component of being a fan of the series is getting facts right and discussing minutiae. There is more than one way to enjoy a thing.

8) I don't see any connection between trying to counter and dismantle sexism and being "kinder or nicer", except in the sense that females are societally expected to be kind, nice, quiet, unobtrusive, nurturing, deferential. There is certainly no reason for me to be kind or nice to someone who is repeatedly rude, contemptuous, insulting, and yes, sexist.

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Alunissage
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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alunissage » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:47 pm

The second part of the above post wasn't there when I was writing mine, I think. I don't have too much to say, just

a) I think Alis follows what happened with the thread just fine, it's your specific post(s) that are difficult to read
b) If you'd said something along the lines of "In animation and games, boys are always portrayed as dressing faster than girls", most of this could have been avoided... or deferred, at least, since your "boys' toys" attitudes and such would surely come out sooner or later. That's a valid observation -- or at least, an unobjectionable observation that could then be argued by people who are familiar with a wide body of anime and game cutscenes. But you didn't give any context like that; you stated a generality and then kept digging yourself deeper, only backpedaling to explain what you really meant much later. That you said something which was apparently different from what you meant is on you, not your audience. We can only read what's actually there.

TempestOne

Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:53 pm

You just turned this newfound thread into a post completely about me. What else do you really want to hear? I have explained my side of the story of that one comment once and if that wasn't enough for you, have your brain read it by itself. It's a ninja-trick only boys would know about. giggle It is probably more your upper lip flapping away that's knocking off your own EQ points (upgraded terminology, j-s-y-know!) You should take a dose of your own medicine and learn to, ''hush,'' once in a while before running your mouth all the time.
To keep things on topic, I have video games to play. My Sega CD just arrived with everything in perfectly mint condition! Sound quality is great, got a free video game... trying to decide if I am going to save LunAr™ The Silver Star for December (likely) though I did run through the beginning... intro's still so cool...!

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Sonic#
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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Sonic# » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:07 am

TempestOne wrote:have your brain read it by itself. It's a ninja-trick only boys would know about. giggle It is probably more your upper lip flapping away that's knocking off your own EQ points (upgraded terminology, j-s-y-know!) You should take a dose of your own medicine and learn to, ''hush,'' once in a while before running your mouth all the time.


Another sexist comment, TempestOne. You're really not helping your case here with these jabs - you're demonstrating exactly what Alunissage and others have noticed.

And my attempt to give examples (complete with links to several videos) and interpretations to rebut your argument were met by a two paragraph ramble starting with, "It does sound like your feelings got hurt." You're not engaging with what we're saying, whereas we're trying to engage with you.

Finally, to your jabs at the topic being split, it was split because you initiated a discussion that touched several potentially interesting points about gender in Lunar that were worthy of a separate thread. I thought that we could have a civil discussion about it. However, after the latest round of posts, I see nothing further productive - you're not engaging what others have to say, and so others' posts are increasingly turning towards blaming you for being a discourteous poster. It's not productive to pursue that line of discussion any further, as I think everyone can make up their minds based on the material present.

Topic locked.
Sonic#

"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time


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