Gender and Lunar

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TempestOne

Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:57 am

My favorite sprite/.gif/what have you actually comes from a movie in LunAr®: Silver Star Story Complete where  Alex turns into a Dragonmaster, because it's like, ''Haha, boys always get dressed faster than girls in the thick of battle.'' 8-)

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Alunissage » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:43 am

Dude, even if one example were grounds for making a (stupid, sexist) generalization, that wouldn't make sense. Didn't you watch the Trinity of Terror cutscene? Three "girls" change outfits in less time than it takes Alex to put on the armor he's probably already equipped with.

TempestOne

Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby TempestOne » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:14 am

Mmhmmm, taking just a real-life example... out of all the girls I've ever met, none have ever been able to, ''Get dressed,'' faster than me for whatever reason. And, I have met a over a ton in my life. Also, when I meant getting, ''dressed,'' it meant putting clothes or armor, ''on,'' not magically taking them off, lol. But, they're baddies and I couldn't care less what reasons they have for doing whatever bad things they do no matter if it's a matter of removing robes/caking on the slap that they did.
Although, I have to give you props for your enthusiasm for the series... the, ''Trio Of Terror,'' scene is one of my, well, probably permanently in my top three anime cutscenes in the video game and whenever I would have friends over to play video games, I'd almost always pop that clip on and we'd, ''ohh and ahh.'' Royce is one of the most -Borgan-' baddies, ever. 8-)

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Sonic# » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:50 pm

^ The scene with Dragonmaster Alex was magical though. He's not spending at least several minutes getting clasped into his armor by Kyle - there are magic dragons dressing him for him. Also, when Lucia teleports from the Blue Star, she dresses in clothes very quickly, and also by magic. I like the scene too, but it in no way offers a comparison to women dressing.

For what it's worth, even tons of women is anecdotal compared to all women - it's not very fair to generalize like that. When we were dressing into swimsuits or into ordinary clothes from swimsuits, I've had quite a few women beat me. While that's anecdotal too, it points out that "men dress faster than women" is not a hard and fast rule.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

TempestOne

Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby TempestOne » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:52 pm

I put an emphasis on, ''When it comes to battle,'' not leisure by-the-pool-party time because of course that's different. We're not casually grocery shopping at the mall talk here, like, the most akin thingy to, ''battle,'' we have in this day and age is going to work and every girl's complaint they have about just being born or whatever is that, ''Ohh, this don't fit my proportions I am so curvaceous in my mind and it comes and shows off in my everyday, day-to-day clothing attire,'' which I took to not just be some self-constructive-criticism but just a, ''Hey you, de-accessorizing girls is hot (to us), take care!'' lol. Anyways... the point of having a Dragonboy or whatever is so you (wind goddesses) can float into battle and have him flight simulator all around you over all the enemies anyway, right? I have had general tactical sessions with just your casual gameheads; Boys and girls, and we always put an emphasis on, ''Girls do this, boys do that,'' just so we don't all have to trudge through each and every video game ourselves... I know it's just an unwritten rule that, ''boys go right,'' in dungeons and you just deal with it... it's easier and smarter-thinking for just our populace... or, ''Boys concentrate on 'bravery' while girls do 'faith'-based magic attacks,'' or what have you. Like, I would personally love to have a magic-imbued relic of a deity's antique leftovers to being born into a magically infused line of clerics, or whatever! Haha. 8-)
I don't think Lucia was even wearing real-life clothes... that 'stuff' looked like she quickly did some 'old trick' because of the planet she was on and it's culture. You never see that kind of attire here on Earth and it was so strange to me when I first saw it in magazine articles/advertisements. It almost made me not want to get the video game at first but the tagline helped, ''Make the video game more relatable''... I always thought she was using some form of, like 'glamour' magic is the only way I have of expressing it in our, like, Earthly language...

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Alunissage » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:52 pm

TempestOne, I was trying to avoid this level of bluntness, but there is so much stupid in that that it makes my brain hurt. Just...stop. Every time you find yourself saying "Boys do..." or "every girl's..." or any other dumb generalization, bite your tongue, step away from the keyboard, SHUT UP. Because those rules you cite are both insulting and a lazy substitution for actually using your brain to do real thinking -- and, ultimately, an excuse for pigeonholing people into the roles you think they should have so you don't have to bother relating to them. Your statement that "it's easier and smarter-thinking..." is exactly half right and half very wrong, and it should be obvious which is which.

And newsflash, if you think "every girl's complaint" comes from inside her own head and not attitudes like yours both demanding she fit into certain roles and deriding her for doing so, you need to wake the hell up. And if you don't want to do that, at least have the courtesy to not keep spreading that brand of complacent cluelessness (the nicest word I could think of for it) around here.

To bring this back to the context of Lunar, your gendered statements don't even fit here. There have been female Dragonmasters. In EB, Ronfar is the one with the "faith-based" magic and Jean is the one most notable for bravery. Stop trying to defend flawed statements with lazy arguments that don't even apply here.

TempestOne

Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby TempestOne » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:37 am

Happy Sunday! It's warm here. 8-)
To be frank with you, I am more LunAr-y than you, period. giggle (I am, like, known for loving the series so neener.) While you've been playing the video game and reading everything, I have been spreading the love of the LunAr world in my own way, in real, face-to-face relationships and scenarios. While I applaud(?) your brand of, ''Video gaming,'' I can feel proud of the fact that I've invited people into my own home so that we can play LunAr together, which is what the video game actually teaches you, as a player, to do... is to relate to not just specific characters but to look at the bigger picture and see the fine print between the literal lines of reality and what your imagination sees on the television screen. I have memories I can trace back to my childhood where my friends and I have worked together on non-LunAr projects while talking about the video game and what it's taught us to do... to work as a team, to share food, I dunno. I like playing video games and I don't think or feel your attitude is very hero-esque at all. How is that for a straight shot at trying to blow someone's ego away? Be yourself online, it's no skin off my nose. Be, ''blunt,'' lol. I actually find it a really funny point in your virtual personality.
I mean, I've brought the video game box itself with me in my book bag to school just so we can all play video games and it's just a fun environment... doing what you do is fine if you relish in, ''yelling,'' at other posters and telling them to, ''SHUT UP,'' when I am, perspectively, not speaking, but typing text to you. I do not really care when you don't have constructive criticism when it comes to video games, because we're not in cubicles, ''at work,'' working right now... we're people under handles online... talking about how fun video games are and comparing notes on battle tactics, at least (to be somewhat serious). People exist in the real world, it's just what it is. That's, like, some flawed way of belief trying to pretend to be colorblind or genderless, lol. While that works in screen name to screen name contact, people have genders in the world outside of virtual reality... Have a good day, have a cookie, will ya? I might be baking some later, haha.
It's just a fun fact to point out that the computer never targets the girls in your party... unless it's a storyline sequence. I can remember countless times when Mia's randomly the last person still alive in drungeon crawling because she's tucked away safely in the corner pocket. Being a boy is cool, too, lol. I like when girls play video games and don't stay opinionless about it because they kind of get a dose of what it feels like to play with boys' toys and it's interesting learning their perspective as well. Perhaps LunAr's helped me get attention from girls because I radiate, ''funshine sunshine,'' haha. It's cool, take your aggressions out on me, us boys are used to the onslaught of Amazonian girls coming at us from all angles, even in the echelons of the interwebs.
In other news and to keep it on-topic, this dot-com has inspired me to get my Sega CD fix/replaced. Loving LunAr in every shape and form, each day! Whoo! Can't wait to see how cool everything is gonna be...

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Sonic# » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:45 am

To be frank with you, I am more LunAr-y than you, period.


I didn't realize you had Alunissage's complete life story at hand.

And yes. Alunissage was too blunt. In turn, you've not been open to criticism at all. You've just written a long response about your awesomeness in fandom... why? That wasn't the topic. When I point out that what you say is sexist, I'm not saying that genders don't exist or that you're a bad person. I'm saying that you're relying on a bad idea of gender to make a generalization that isn't true. Genders aren't boxes; they're very large and very frequently overlapping ranges. For example, in the Lunar series we have many dual-gender archetypes. Ronfar and Jessica, Nash and Lemina, Jean and Kyle, Dyne and Letitia. We also have a universe of goddesses, where many of the leaders of various magical groups are female (Lemia, Remilia, Althena, the Sisters, Fake Althena, Lucia). Gender matters, but that doesn't mean that it's cool to say that all women worry far more about how they dress. That's an unsupportable claim - you're not psychic. Even limited to the game, the game doesn't show that all men dress more quickly than all women.

(And the closest thing to battle in this day and age is military service, and I'm certain that women have to dress in their ACUs just as fast as men.)

It's just a fun fact to point out that the computer never targets the girls in your party... unless it's a storyline sequence.


It does? I've frequently had Luna, Mia, and Jessica taken out in regular fights. If you tend to put both of them in the back, then it makes sense that they would be targeted less, since that's how the game system works. Actually, I play with Jessica in front, and Kyle in the middle, and she takes her share of damage. (It's not "randomly" if there's a reason - "because she's tucked away...")

I like when girls play video games and don't stay opinionless about it because they kind of get a dose of what it feels like to play with boys' toys and it's interesting learning their perspective as well. Perhaps LunAr's helped me get attention from girls because I radiate, ''funshine sunshine,'' haha. It's cool, take your aggressions out on me, us boys are used to the onslaught of Amazonian girls coming at us from all angles, even in the echelons of the interwebs.


Half of video gamers are women, and a lot of the fans of this game are women too. Calling them "boys' toys" is another example of sexism, because both genders enjoy them and play them, and have for a long time.

And no, "us boys," or at least many of us, are able to respect the people around us without claiming to speak for all men or all women. A boy myself, I listen when someone brings up an issue and address their argument in their terms, rather than using an ad hominem and trying to one-up them on the fandom business. Let's not do that, okay?
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

TempestOne

Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby TempestOne » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:56 am

All I said was Dragonmaster Alex dresses really fast for the upcoming battle with the Black Dragon, and it reminded me of how much, even, ''Getting dressed really fast,'' can help shave off time when it comes to every littlest thingy you do... so you can play video games more when you come home. (I'm-a not spoiler that out since it's already down here through to the end of the thread. 8-)) That's it. S/he took it upon themselves to, honestly, look/''sound like through text,'' like they had a mild brain aneurysm over one sentence on a message board about LunAr, that was spoiler'ed out to begin with... I do not feel the need to even say anything else about it because it was more one-sided than anything else... but, to, like, humor you, personally, there are so many instances to boy/girl in, just, the bath scenes. If you want to pick apart every detailed statistic of a pixel within the entirety of the video game itself, you might strain your eyes, t-b-honest.
You can go ahead and start being my personal psychotherapist online, starting from my very first post here, if you want and if you like to do that with the posters that want to come here and talk about how LunAr has affected there lives; That's your prerogative. Just like how you do not know my history with, not just this personal website right now, but, the actual posters themselves that've made Lunar-net.com+Lunarthreads.com what it's become right here, right now. I've been there during the WDMB.com stage, and I sent in a haiku and everything, too. Just because I do not wish to be a braggart or boast about my personal/public claim to fames to the internet verse doesn't make me any less of important fan in this series, nor does it make you or them, ''higher up,'' in the chain of command than me... because, hello, I'm still a person. And, we all only have one vote when it comes to living here in the United States Of America (''Hi, fans!''), which I am only going to bring up once, here in this post, with your military bomb of a drop. I've had members of my immediate, extended family not just be in the military itself, but have been through wars in the past. All the military buddies I have ever met tell me to not give a boot lick about that stuff right now and I can count on my hands, toes, strands of hair all over my boy's body how many have said that to me over and over. If you want to make this, ''internet friendly,'' I'll glady adhere to color codes and be fabulously in charge of tossing the proverbial paper airplane in the figurative F.A.O. Shwarz toy store to bring in foot traffic, or in a more pop culture terminology... be in charge of, ''cups.'' I have notice that we've gotten so much more guests on the, ''Who is online.'' (Whoo!)
I am saying, ''No one thinks of gender as important anymore,'' and that's the most awkward-sounding thought ever... to be, ''______-less robots.'' I like LunAr and it's lore because it is very true to life and it does take into account the idea that anyone can run a magic guild if they wish to, or, any position is open to anyone that manages to, ''work it,'' better than the rest of the competition. The whole, entire ideology of a, ''goddess,'' was interesting in the sense that no boy can be a goddess, but someone was able to take her powers away, too.
I, personally, don't and never overlap seasons in a video games' series unless the character just happens to be there, too. I never saw Ronfar as a Jessica clone. I thought he was a better attacker than Jessica, while Jessica was a better healer, actually and you almost had to work around Ronfar's lack of practice when it came to that department. I find it interesting to note that you juxtaposed Nash to Lemia, when Mia's her ancestor... like, you're trying to grasp at any straw just to get any ol' jab in but it's cool... attention to detail, right? Jean's whole, entire storyline centered around the fact that she didn't want to use violence and she'd rather bring joy to the world of LunAr through more artistic, party-time endeavors such as a moving carnival... and if you want to get technical, her 'faith'-based decision to use physical attacks if why she earned those memories back in the first place, so I thought that was a neat-o story sequence. (Who needs five attacks when you had Blue Dragon Valor, anyway? giggle)
Kind of messy structure, but I am trying to follow you... One of my favorite ways of playing a role-playing video game is leaving everything so 'default' and not touching on anyone's placements in battle, and I have managed to do extremely fine in every run-through... Mia's always saved the party's butt just from something so simple as staying in the, ''Corner of the back of the classroom,'' so to speak. I felt it fit her mousey-sounding demeanor so well. (So true.) Plus lucky streaks with Nall.
Being in the hubbub of the fan community of the video game industry just based off locale, girls tell me all the time (Not, ''there he goes again,'' because it's true and it happens) to straight up, ''Not care,'' since they have the most crazy-sounding opinions and I am only adhering their words of advice, haha. I grew up with so many girls who were into video games, but they never, ever got into it if it weren't for a boy introducing them to it in the first place. Much like me never being into those random-looking Barbie video games, but I am not one to discriminate against boys that do... though I'd have to quote the back of the Punching Puppet Ghaleon; I, ''...suggest you need a lot of counseling.'' There could be a girl that randomly picked up a video game and popped it in and, like, amazing but that's like saying I do not believe the Dragonmaster sisters existed because they weren't 'seen' by the player themselves and were, by then, just tall tales in the library of Vane... even though that kooky Blue Dragon said something that might've coincided with that hearsay. I am willing to put forth a 'faith'-based belief in that regard because that's practically what being imaginative is all about... believing in someone else's creativity, creative talents, and just creature comforts... Take it with a grain of salt... it is just the, ''internet.''
(This place is so much fun/so cool, haha.)

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Alunissage » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:10 pm

Just like how you do not know my history with, not just this personal website right now, but, the actual posters themselves that've made Lunar-net.com+Lunarthreads.com what it's become right here, right now. I've been there during the WDMB.com stage, and I sent in a haiku and everything, too. Just because I do not wish to be a braggart or boast about my personal/public claim to fames to the internet verse doesn't make me any less of important fan in this series, nor does it make you or them, ''higher up,'' in the chain of command than me... because, hello, I'm still a person.


1) And yet, Sonic's mild comment that you don't know my history was in response to your "To be frank with you, I am more LunAr-y than you, period." Do you really not see how self-contradictory you're being?

2) I was pretty sure I didn't remember your screenname from the WDMB, and just checked my archive of the haiku entries to be sure. What were you posting under then?

I grew up with so many girls who were into video games, but they never, ever got into it if it weren't for a boy introducing them to it in the first place.


This is still anecdotal, not a generalization. I didn't meet any males who played videogames until my third year of college. In the meantime, I'd played Pong with one female friend, Atari with another female friend, got introduced to the Legend of Zelda by a third female friend, and then a console finally made its way into my home because my sister's best (female) friend gave her her NES (on which said friend's mother was an excellent player) because she was getting a SNES. After my sis got the NES, my own best (female) friend gave me some of her NES games to give to sis. That's eight females and zero males, nine if you count the mother of my Atari-owning friend who bought it for her.

I am saying, ''No one thinks of gender as important anymore,''

Everything you've said contradicts this, starting from your very first boys dress faster than girls thing. Which is what I objected to, not any comment about the desirability of any particular person being able to dress quickly.

And it's Blue Dragon Vigor. Is it really so hard to use the right names for things?

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Sonic# » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:25 am

TempestOne wrote:All I said was Dragonmaster Alex dresses really fast for the upcoming battle with the Black Dragon, and it reminded me of how much, even, ''Getting dressed really fast,'' can help shave off time when it comes to every littlest thingy you do...


earlier wrote:My favorite sprite/.gif/what have you actually comes from a movie in LunAr®: Silver Star Story Complete where Alex turns into a Dragonmaster, because it's like, ''Haha, boys always get dressed faster than girls in the thick of battle.''


So that's not all you said. The latest explanation you offer here would be fine. Making a joke about fast dressing can be funny. Implying that boys are always faster dressers, or girls always slower ones - that's a hasty generalization based on gender. Pointing that out has nothing to do with being your "personal psychotherapist," and I'm not interested in comparing our devotion to Lunar fandom, measuring our e-peen, getting "jabs" in, or anything else. I offered a criticism of your point, and I stand by it. I shall now proceed to discuss parts that require clarification.

I never saw Ronfar as a Jessica clone. I thought he was a better attacker than Jessica, while Jessica was a better healer, actually and you almost had to work around Ronfar's lack of practice when it came to that department. I find it interesting to note that you juxtaposed Nash to Lemia, when Mia's her ancestor... like, you're trying to grasp at any straw just to get any ol' jab in but it's cool... attention to detail, right? Jean's whole, entire storyline centered around the fact that she didn't want to use violence and she'd rather bring joy to the world of LunAr through more artistic, party-time endeavors such as a moving carnival... and if you want to get technical, her 'faith'-based decision to use physical attacks if why she earned those memories back in the first place, so I thought that was a neat-o story sequence. (Who needs five attacks when you had Blue Dragon Valor, anyway? giggle)


I offered these pairings to demonstrate that women were not confined to magical roles and men to fighting ones, that character roles are not as tied to gender as you seemed to be implying.

Archetypes are not clones of one another. To explain briefly, an archetype is a character that serves a similar role in a structure, especially a narrative one. It's a recurring pattern or role. Harry Potter and the young Arthur in The Once and Future King are individual characters with many differences, but they fit the same pattern of being fostered by others, boys chosen by magicians for a destiny greater than them, and so on. Archetypes are useful points of comparison - they provide a lot of clues about where a story will go, what genres are at play, and so on.

Many archetypes in Lunar are not tied to gender much at all. So, Ronfar and Jessica are both priests. They both use holy magic. They are both somewhat dubious about their responsibilities, and their estrangement or difficult relationships are a large part of their motivations. Yeah, there are a lot of differences - Ronfar's lover is possessed, whereas Kyle is merely self-possessed, Jessica is a much younger character, but they both perform a healing role, one that you earlier described as being better suited to women.

I compared Nash and Lemia because they have more similar personality types - they are both loud, outspoken, and seem from their exteriors to be selfish and power-loving, though that later turns out not to be the case. More relevant, they are both magic users. As to your point about Mia, she's also a possible point of comparison - archetypes have multiple possible points to compare, and any of the three are sufficiently close as magic users. (I would argue that Mia is going through a slightly different, more interior change - building confidence in her own abilities - without dealing with an overconfidence that the other two exhibit.)

With Jean, seeking an ability to make art with her dance is a part of her, but I'd also say that she had to learn that being able to fight with her earlier training could be a part of her too, that she can come to terms with her past and practice martial arts again. On this point, my comparison was very superficial with Kyle and I didn't have an archetype in mind. They both fight well.

I grew up with so many girls who were into video games, but they never, ever got into it if it weren't for a boy introducing them to it in the first place.


I'm sure you're right about your own experience. However, what you seem to be suggesting by this is a general rule about how women experience the world based on your personal experience. Anecdotal evidence is not evidence for a generalization. You're one person in a world with billions, and as Alunissage points out, your comment does not jive with her experience, so of course we point out it's in error to suggest that women only participate in games because of men. Some women dress fast, some play lots of games, and some were introduced to games by their sisters and moms.

Personally, my sisters were a really big influence in introducing me to video games. So was my mom and dad. That's three women, one man. I think you'd be hard pressed to find boys or girls who weren't introduced to video games by a gamer or a gift-giver like a parent, irrespective of gender. Furthermore, women make up almost half of all gamers. So yes, there have been points when fewer girls and women have played games, and those stereotypes are true in some people's social circles, but video games are not "boys' toys."
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Animated Gif Sprite Resource?!?!

Postby Shiva Indis » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:37 pm

TempestOne wrote:I never saw Ronfar as a Jessica clone. I thought he was a better attacker than Jessica, while Jessica was a better healer, actually and you almost had to work around Ronfar's lack of practice when it came to that department.

??? I don't remember it being like this at all. The series likes tough healers, but Jess was better on offense than Ronfar. She has an above average number of attacks and good range. Ronfar doesn't have either.

TempestOne wrote:I grew up with so many girls who were into video games, but they never, ever got into it if it weren't for a boy introducing them to it in the first place.

I'm a woman. My mom got the family a Super Nintendo for Christmas and I was the one who really took to it. Now you know another woman who didn't get into video games because of a boy.

You seem to think your experiences are very representative, but they aren't as universal as you think. You do the people you interact with a disservice by making so many assumptions about them.

And uh... does this thread need a rename?

[Admin note: Good point. Thread has been split. ~S#]
「まあいいけど。」

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:39 am

(Had a,'' Watch This Space,'' post because it loads faster.)
I wish you do not start to treat me any different from here on out just because you got your feelings hurt. We all like video games and, I guess, I am especially into the role-playing genre, which I, pretty much, knew from the, well, whenever I first picked up my virtual, ''Ten-point Power Sword,'' but, I did not mean to demean you(s), like, of course, and I am going to address the actual comment, that we'll pretend wasn't hidden behind spoiler tags because it, ''might've been derogatory;'' I was avoiding spoiling who becomes what, and what the what is, because, ''spoilers,'' can be based on the past and it's not someone's fault they were born at a certain point in time... you know what I mean? Here is the sentence that was spoiler tagged out, (just because I do not want to bullet point replies): Alex turns into a Dragonmaster, because it's like, ''Haha, boys always get dressed faster than girls in the thick of battle.'' 8-) Let's pick this apart. I included the, ''Cool,''-face just because I actually meant to the first time, and that's that... straight from God's name to your mouth. That comment was based on every single in-game cinematic movie. I always wondered why Alex got gypped in the film-reel for such an important scene and it took a while for it to really settle in that, he was, or, the video game creators were trying to make a point of the concepts of, ''time,'' in general. It's not a central theme to the story of this version of LunAr, for sure, but it, really is, just a universal theme in our lives which we can all relate to. 'For such an important scene,' Alex to me, at the time, seemed like he got the short end of the stick to be honest in contrast to every single other character... while he gets more screen time, this is what the story was all about; Him and his quest to be the Dragonmaster, even before all of that happened, and whether or not the plot goes back even a few pages before we, the players, started to play the video game. I related to Alex in that moment, because I always find myself wanting to shave off time in my life, too, when it comes to everyday stuggles, or everyday battles, like, at the time of my first playthrough: School, social activities, hobbies. There was a battle still to be fought, or, really, the war was just about to begin, because Alex succeeded in his own personal glory, and that dream of his was something even the baddies couldn't stop him from doing. I compared, or, juxtapozed that anime cinematic, really quickly, to just all of the other movies, and aside from a few of the funny quip-of-a-clip(s), for such a 'quality' scene, it didn't get the quantity of time, in terms of length-in-minutes, it deserved, at least, to me. I do not know how the art designers wanted that scene to be interpreted by the audience, of course, but in terms of a running in-joke, a lot of us American do feel cheated when we do not get, ''a lot,'' of something we paid for and bought for ourselves, our family... whatever. Or, whatever. Now though, I look back at it and it might be my number two anime movie in the whole, entire video game because Alex was a totally questionable main character in the sense that no one knew how in it he was to the very end; Nobody can dive into his mind ever, and he, really, was determined to finish what he started and was in it for the long haul.
I am keeping thingies within this said video game and, just, up against every other character, the one moment everyone was just apprehensively, waiting with bated breath to see happen, isn't talked about enough! (I, personally, didn't even want to talk about it at all, because I want players to have a thought on it in their own hearts, for themselves, like, always, but, it's fine.) Let's look at all the armoring/''clothes-removal,'' scenes, then. First of all, I do not recall any other scene where there was a physical transformation of a 'good' character in terms of actual garb being put on, or, ''getting dressed,'' whatever, semantics... getting dressed to me, means putting clothes on at the end of it all. You have the Magic Emperor, but that was just mega-strange. (Another topic, entirely for this awkward point.) We discussed the Vile Tribe Sisters, or the, ''Trinity Of Terror(?),'' cut scene and, while, that was just, honestly, a, really, good turning point in the video game; It was also, kind of, like, the art department getting to show off their stuff, too. I, as a gamehead, liked the scene, of course, from an appealing point of view, but do I want to agreeance with anything those three whatchamacallit's have to do with me, ever? ''No, thanks,'' I, personally, thought, and my, uhh, group of friends at the time said so, too, pretty much. They got the nickname, or, monickers of: ''Sisters Of Skank,'' or, ''Skanky Sisters.'' It was a very stripper-ish moment, you have to kind of admit. <- Pick that apart, too, if you want. I didn't feel they would've had that reaction, but, it opened my eyes to how they were the epitome of baddies at that point in time, seeing and hearing it from another's perspective. It just seems to me that while there's almost a more intimate feeling when it comes to various states of undress, nobody ever and no one even thinks or feel anything about an amateur swordsman putting their magic(al), Dragon-fused armor on. I hope that enlightens all of you to my viewpoint on that comment and realize it wasn't me even comparing to boys vs. girls in real life, but the boys and girls to the boys and girls in the video game itself.
Last edited by TempestOne on Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Werefrog » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:03 am

This is off-topic, but everything that is going on here perplexes me, so I'm going to write it anyway.

A professor of mine said "monthly cycle" today. I shouldn't find that funny... but I do. Maybe just because of how old-fashioned it sounds.

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby CatsWithMatches » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:58 am

Let's remember to occasionally tap the enter key twice once in a while, shall we?

TempestOne

Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:02 am

This forum is, really, fun and fun to read.
Can't wait to play LunAr again, on the Sega CD... plus other titles. With the lull in the video game industry (console-to-console) it's the best time to catch up on old favorites.
This saves bandwidth, personally speaking, lol. I mean, if you notice, there are no, ''enters,'' when characters speak in video game text. Sure, there's another 'text box' but when written out, at least, physically within the video game.
''They all talk like this.'' I am used to it. Play more video games, will ya? Have a nice day! 8-)

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alis » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:00 pm

I love Lunar so much I have Hiro's face tattooed on left my buttock. I love the series so so much I only talk to people through big card boxes with what I want to say written on them, just like those you have in game!!! I love Lunar so f*cking much I cry myself to sleep thinking over and over again what a tragic and ironic play of destiny it is that the characters don't exist in real life, and I pray to a faceless God that maybe, someday, in the near future, we all will have to be evacuated to the moon (because, believe it or not, after many many years of being a die hard Lunar I finally found out Lunar is actually the moon! Clever move, Game arts!)

Peace out

TempestOne

Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby TempestOne » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:29 pm

Hey, Alis, welcome, lol. You seem to have a lot of enthusiasm towards the video game, but you do have a lot of good points about the idiosyncrasies on LunAr fan boys and fan girls. That was a really, well-written satire on how certain fandoms do act and it did get a chortle out of me. Something of a run-on-of-a-one-liner. While your post has nothing to do with this, now, ''Gender And LunAr,'' topic, which split from the, ''Animated .Gif Resource,'' thread, it's interesting to note that you favored Hiro in your, what honestly seems like to me, a random lob of a fire arrow from who knows where... uhh, touché! ''En garde!'' Perhaps you like how random of a character he is...?
Have you ever thought about the realism there is in LunAr, and how, if someone, out there, ...actually brought a world like LunAr to, not just the breath of life, but brought it to the people in video game form! Some video games today aren't just, ''like interactive books,'' anymore which is the one thingy so many people say to sort of, defend their love of video games, but there're really more like interactive movies in this day and age. LunAr is kind of the catalyst from that old-school type of not just mentality, but overall feel, to the more upgrading of the updates in, just, fun stuff regarding technology. 8-) LunAr isn't your, just, leapfrog from the Leapfrog, but honestly, I have heard through the grapevine, a littlest bird told me and just from word-of-mouth, this ish roakes! Haha.
(You make me wanna play Phantasy Star.)

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Alunissage » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:42 am

I wish you do not start to treat me any different from here on out just because you got your feelings hurt.

No. This patronizing bit of disingenuity is not going to fly. It's not us getting our feelings hurt, as if it's some flaw in us that you blamelessly stumbled on. It's annoyance at something YOU said. Three people have objected to your casual, unthinking sexism, and you keep digging yourself deeper. The problem is not with your audience. If you want to talk about your love of the series, how you relate to the characters, etc., be our guest... though please try to be more on-topic and coherent when you do. You can start a new thread if the one you're commenting on isn't related to what you want to say. But don't make stupid comments and then claim innocence or worldly wisdom or unsubstantiated seniority (the hell was that all about??) when someone calls you on them.

Which reminds me, you haven't mentioned what username you submitted your haiku under, back in the day. Do tell.

Also, you know. Spaces between paragraphs. Coherence. Less lolspeak, more clarity. Don't stick random capital letters into words that have lower case letters in them. Don't assume your experience is typical or trumps anyone else's. Etc. We do expect a minimum of communication skills here.

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Re: Gender and Lunar

Postby Sonic# » Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:45 am

It is patronizing to write off interest in getting gender and the Lunar canon right as "hurt feelings." At no point have my feelings been hurt in this discussion - reducing what Alunissage or I have said to "hurt feelings" in no way engages with what we've said.

It's not a central theme to the story of this version of LunAr, for sure, but it, really is, just a universal theme in our lives which we can all relate to. 'For such an important scene,' Alex to me, at the time, seemed like he got the short end of the stick to be honest in contrast to every single other character... while he gets more screen time, this is what the story was all about; Him and his quest to be the Dragonmaster, even before all of that happened, and whether or not the plot goes back even a few pages before we, the players, started to play the video game. I related to Alex in that moment, because I always find myself wanting to shave off time in my life, too, when it comes to everyday stuggles, or everyday battles, like, at the time of my first playthrough: School, social activities, hobbies. There was a battle still to be fought, or, really, the war was just about to begin, because Alex succeeded in his own personal glory, and that dream of his was something even the baddies couldn't stop him from doing. I compared, or, juxtapozed that anime cinematic, really quickly, to just all of the other movies, and aside from a few of the funny quip-of-a-clip(s), for such a 'quality' scene, it didn't get the quantity of time, in terms of length-in-minutes, it deserved, at least, to me. I do not know how the art designers wanted that scene to be interpreted by the audience, of course, but in terms of a running in-joke, a lot of us American do feel cheated when we do not get, ''a lot,'' of something we paid for and bought for ourselves, our family... whatever. Or, whatever. Now though, I look back at it and it might be my number two anime movie in the whole, entire video game because Alex was a totally questionable main character in the sense that no one knew how in it he was to the very end; Nobody can dive into his mind ever, and he, really, was determined to finish what he started and was in it for the long haul.


So, to the extent that I can follow this explanation, you relate to this scene because his swiftness of transforming seems to get short shrift considering that he's wanted to be Dragonmaster for a long time. It's difficult for me to see how this relates to saving time in general. It's a pretty standard length transformation scene, compared to others in its genre (super sentai?). It seems like a pretty personal interpretation, especially since you're putting your own thoughts and expectations onto Alex as if he's a blank slate (or a "questionable main character"). Alex seems happy in the cutscene - when the helmet goes on, he's smiling. So your interpretation is hard to relate to.

Would you say the same about Alex's second transformation into Dragonmaster? I think that, if the first scene seems stressed given the situation (in a "rise to the occasion" sort of way, the second is far more deliberate, and shows Alex realizing his responsibility and choosing to undertake it. (I'm getting a lot of that sense from his conversation with Laike in-game.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/Kgf-54INryM?t=6m49s[/youtube]

Let's look at all the armoring/''clothes-removal,'' scenes, then. First of all, I do not recall any other scene where there was a physical transformation of a 'good' character in terms of actual garb being put on, or, ''getting dressed,'' whatever, semantics... getting dressed to me, means putting clothes on at the end of it all. You have the Magic Emperor, but that was just mega-strange. (Another topic, entirely for this awkward point.) We discussed the Vile Tribe Sisters, or the, ''Trinity Of Terror(?),'' cut scene and, while, that was just, honestly, a, really, good turning point in the video game; It was also, kind of, like, the art department getting to show off their stuff, too. I, as a gamehead, liked the scene, of course, from an appealing point of view, but do I want to agreeance with anything those three whatchamacallit's have to do with me, ever? ''No, thanks,'' I, personally, thought, and my, uhh, group of friends at the time said so, too, pretty much. They got the nickname, or, monickers of: ''Sisters Of Skank,'' or, ''Skanky Sisters.'' It was a very stripper-ish moment, you have to kind of admit. <- Pick that apart, too, if you want. I didn't feel they would've had that reaction, but, it opened my eyes to how they were the epitome of baddies at that point in time, seeing and hearing it from another's perspective. It just seems to me that while there's almost a more intimate feeling when it comes to various states of undress, nobody ever and no one even thinks or feel anything about an amateur swordsman putting their magic(al), Dragon-fused armor on. I hope that enlightens all of you to my viewpoint on that comment and realize it wasn't me even comparing to boys vs. girls in real life, but the boys and girls to the boys and girls in the video game itself.


I think distinguishing dressing from undressing is rather misleading. We could get semantic and emphasis the appearance of features that could not have been on the Vile Tribe sisters in their disguises, but it's sufficient to suggest that, whether dressing or undressing, these scenes are doing two things: they introduce characters, initiate transformations, and signal true selves. An example of introduction is when Kyle throws off his lady's garments, or when Lemina throws off her cloak. Alex's is more in the mode of a transformation, or an important shift in his character. With the Vile Tribe and the Magic Emperor, there's the doffing of a disguise - we see their true selves.

Jean's dressing scene is perhaps the scene that is most naturalistic about its dressing. (No magic involved; shows the parts of dressing relevant to the scene.) Of course it would be utterly mundane to show people fully dressing or undressing - the bracers and the obi are both particularly martial implements, and emphasize her acceptance of her earlier training and her past.

Next most naturalistic is when Lucia is trying on different clothes in an effort to not stand out so much. They don't show the act of dressing, but they show the results, with an emphasis on the humor. The resulting dress *is* a transformation, but it takes some time for it (Lucia's growing familiarity with humans) to set in.

Now, the Vile Tribe sisters? They don't seem stripperish to me - there aren't stripper movements, pole dancing, or anything else. They fly into a vortex, are dressed differently, are seen at a distance, and then each taunt Alex. They're not just wearing less clothes, but different ones, and the event immediately preceding Lemia/Xenobia's flying into the red magical tornado is her eyes flashing. Much more witch-like and deliberate - for Lunar, pretty unsettling. Phacia isn't really wearing much less clothing. Focusing on the lack of clothing as something "skanky" - again, that's your own interpretation, one unsupported by the game since none of the sisters really act like skanks at all. (At most Xenobia has a thing for Ghaleon, but I don't think Lunar is interested in slut-shaming.)

And I had plenty of feels for Alex, since he was more than amateur swordsman by that time. The game is less good about setting that up, but it does work establishing Alex's own skill, especially when Alex and Laike travel together to Myght's Tower and afterwards, when Alex defeats Tempest.

In any case, I think your comment works neither as it is originally written nor as it's explained here. It's all about your impressions of two different scenes, and there's a lot that you're personally adding that's not in those scenes or in Lunar generally. Having personal readings and impressions is fine, but they're not going to be very communicable, and when they imply unsupported assumptions about gender, I'm going to point that out. The length of transformations doesn't seem that significant.
Sonic#

"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time


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