Games Inspired by Lunar 2

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Shiva Indis
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Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Shiva Indis »

I've spent a lot of time thinking about a couple of games that borrow plot elements from Lunar 2 rather liberally. One of them is Grandia 2, which probably doesn't come as a surprise. The other one is Tales of Destiny 2, which may be more surprising. Also this is your spoiler warning if you don't want to know what happens in these games.

I remember being able to predict major twists in Grandia 2, like what was going to happen when the party completed their trek halfway across the world to get to the holy city where the person who is supposed to be able to cure the heroine's curse lives. Naturally the religious order headquartered in said city is fraudulent and corrupt and secretly worships an evil god. What else would it be? And let me guess, the good god is dead? Okay, that figures.

I enjoyed the game, the gameplay was fun and I didn't feel like it let me down in the storytelling department, but sometimes the similarities boggled my mind. Like when the phrase "power of humanity" turned up in the dialog... :D

Now, for ToD2, the borrowed elements may be more subtle. The main character is an idealistic young man (well, to be honest, a boy) with aspirations to greatness. That describes a great number of RPG heroes, no big deal. So this boy explores some ancient ruins near his home and finds a giant crystal (or lens, to use the game's terminology). A girl emerges from this object - clothes materialize on her soon afterward, might I add. :wink: She is the game's heroine and she has come from some unknown place in search of a hero. At this point she has little interest in the main character for anything, but he, on other hand, is bound and determined to help her accomplish her mission.

Better yet, the heroine also has a very important pendant. Sounds familiar, I hope? And I haven't even gotten to the topic of infamous traitors who've been brought back from the dead...
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Sonic# »

I remember being able to predict major twists in Grandia 2, like what was going to happen when the party completed their trek halfway across the world to get to the holy city where the person who is supposed to be able to cure the heroine's curse lives. Naturally the religious order headquartered in said city is fraudulent and corrupt and secretly worships an evil god. What else would it be? And let me guess, the good god is dead? Okay, that figures.
Well, to be fair there are several RPGs that follow the model. I'm thinking of Phantasy Star 2, where you go around for about half the game knowing that Mother Brain is malfunctioning, but not knowing what the cause is. It turns out to be an evil god, and the good "god" (Mother Brain) has been corrupted irrevocably.

The first book in Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster trilogy does the same thing. The main hero eventually ends up on a long journey to visit the main castle and talk to the High Lord and seek help for the land. About the same thing happens here as happens in Lunar 2.

It's fairly likely that the two games are inspired off of one another, but these themes have been stirring around for a while. I think it just came to a point that their variety of "save the world" became popular for a little while in RPGs.
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Nobiyuki77
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Nobiyuki77 »

Want to know what Lunar 2 and Grandia 2 have in common?

Kei Shigema.

That's why they have so many similarities. ^^
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by GhaleonOne »

I always felt Grandia 2 was actually a poor-mans Lunar 2. It just seemed like Shigema copied so much of Lunar 2 in Grandia 2, and without Lunar 1's backdrop and lack of history, Grandia 2 seemed more bland. Not that it was a bad game, but it really did seem Shigema copied his own formula there. In fact, I felt Lunar DS was even a dumbed down Lunar 1.

I don't want to knock Shigema too much though, as I still feel Lunar 1 and 2 had storylines that were leaps and bounds ahead of their time for an RPG, and still surpass just about anything out there. Both were cliche in many ways, but instead of detracting from the storylines, the cliches were done so well that they enhanced both games.
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by DevNall »

Interesting, I never noticed the similarities between those two.
GhaleonOne wrote:In fact, I felt Lunar DS was even a dumbed down Lunar 1.
I was listening to the Lunar: DS soundtrack just this weekend, and was surprised at how many songs seem like remixes of TSS/SSS music.

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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Sonic# »

Also, in case anyone wants to look at an extensive (though not exhaustive) list of their respective tropes, you can check the following.

Grandia - http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Grandia
Lunar - http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Lunar

Notable comparisons are the Corrupt Church, Did You Just Punch Out Chthulhu (defeating an uber-powerful god), Non-Human Sidekick, and so on. Actually, a lot of tropes look like they could cross over but don't. Someone studious could edit the two articles to include the tropes that cross over.
Sonic#

"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Imperial Knight »

GhaleonOne wrote:I always felt Grandia 2 was actually a poor-mans Lunar 2. It just seemed like Shigema copied so much of Lunar 2 in Grandia 2, and without Lunar 1's backdrop and lack of history, Grandia 2 seemed more bland. Not that it was a bad game, but it really did seem Shigema copied his own formula there.
I largely agree. I always found the story in Grandia II to be somewhat disappointing. Not because it was bad, per se, but rather just because I was expecting more from Shigema.

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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Temzin »

Fair criticisms of Grandia II (though I still enjoyed it), and given that Lunar 2 is originally from 1994, it is interesting to speculate on subsequent games it influences. Now, this series was never that widely known, so I've often thought that similarities could be coincidences, but some things that struck me:

In Square's 1998 Xenogears, the character of Karellen (Krelian) seems to have been strongly modeled on Ghaleon as he appears in TSS (not SSS). The former hero losing faith in a world where a beloved figure had to be sacrificed, and in turn seeking the godship for himself, made me think of Ghaleon, and the similar visual motif didn't hurt. The design of Graf (Grahf) seemed heavily Magic Emperor-inspired to me, but that could be my imagination. Meanwhile, the most obvious still of course is...

The corrupt religion motif: I can't confirm that Eternal Blue is the first RPG to focus so heavily on a pre-Reformation-style church, but it has to be one of the earliest. By now, of course, the suspicious and indulgent clergy (often with an accompanying evil god) theme has been done to death everywhere from Final Fantasy Tactics to Xenogears and beyond, but I've always credited Eternal Blue with doing it first and best.
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Shiva Indis
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Shiva Indis »

I didn't start this thread to criticize a Game Arts game, just thought it would be fun to compare. To be honest, I mostly wanted to write about Tales of Destiny. :wink: But anyway, I've been doing some fact checking. Shigema is in the credits for Grandia 2 for original story, but his company website seems not to credit him for any involvement in Grandia. (http://www.nerimadors.or.jp/~gekko/staff_shigema.html) I could guess about what this means, but I'd just be guessing; I'm sure there are other staff members in common between various Lunar incarnations and Grandia anyway.

One thing Shigema *is* credited for on the Gekkou site - scenario producer for Tales of Destiny 2. A number of other Gekkou people worked on Lunar, Grandia and ToD2, or at least two out of three.

As for the corrupt religion trope, Breath of Fire 2 is another early example I can think of. It was released in Japan the same year as Lunar: Eternal Blue, probably a few months later. Maybe Lunar 2 is the first. :)

Karellen! I love Karellen, and suddenly it seems I have a new reason why... :mrgreen:
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by ilovemyguitar »

One could make an argument that Chrono Cross draws inspiration from
Lunar 2 in a roundabout way. Both are sequels that at first appear to be completely independent stories, but as they wear on you realize they're incredibly connected to their series' previous entries.
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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by sux2bme »

anyone who played atelier iris series would say... f*** this s*** is so nostalgic...hehe

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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Silver Phoenix »

Games always borrow heavily from other series, but they often don't do it as well as the original source. You could say Pentagulia is modeled after the Vatican with the Pope being Fake Althena to some extent. I hate organized religion, and would like to summon the Four Dragons to destroy it (The Vatican).

Even EB's story has borrowed elements, and it's hard to be original anymore. In either case, the story is incredibly done but can always be improved upon..... IN LUNAR 3!

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Re: Games Inspired by Lunar 2

Post by Shiva Indis »

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