Lunar Threads

Lunar DS isn't only the worst Lunar...it's the worst RPG. by comparison, i'd sit Quest 64 on a THRONE. do any of you recall RPG's you've disliked more?

Alunissage wrote:My suggestion was Lucie but Kizyr wouldn't pass it on.

I didn't get that suggestion until long after I made that recommendation! If I'd been able to discuss it with you before then, I might have recommended Lucie. Though it looks too much like Lucy...

AnimeJei wrote:It's like how some hate dubbed anime and love the original Japanese seiyuu, they can be very different. Just how dialogue can be different between Genesis and DS.

I think you're missing my point. What is your basis for saying that the translation was the cause of Gabryel's weak dialogue? She sounded the same in the Japanese version. KF

She sounds exactly the same in Genesis? I am going on based on my little Japanese knowledge but also my gf's translation too, I felt there was a difference.

I wish the phrase 'which is the worst' wouldn't have to apply to this series, but yeah, another for Dragon Song. I haven't finished it, so I can't judge it completely, but...I didn't finish it. That says a lot for a game in my favorite RPG series. The worst thing about it, I believe, is the chances that game hurts of a true sequel being made.

Goes to show how much an influence good cut scenes and voice acting had on these games. Removing them is like ripping out their souls.

Really is a shame, if they waited a few more years for games like Dragon Song (they already waited 10 ) they could of had access to the PSP and made it up to par, or close to that of the originals, cut scenes/voice acting and all.

Honestly, I don't think it's the lack of cutscenes or voice acting that made Dragon Song bad. Lunar Legend was a quality handheld RPG. (certainly, it's originals were better, but for a handheld RPG, it was very well done). Dragon Song's problems were it's execution of the storyline and all around shoddy gameplay. The story had no real build up. It was missing all the story segments the other Lunar titles had, and the gameplay was just horrible.

Zaskar wrote:Goes to show how much an influence good cut scenes and voice acting had on these games. Removing them is like ripping out their souls.

Really is a shame, if they waited a few more years for games like Dragon Song (they already waited 10 ) they could of had access to the PSP and made it up to par, or close to that of the originals, cut scenes/voice acting and all.

Cut scenes don't add anywhere near as much as you may think. Besides which, releasing it for the PSP would've severely limited its potential audience (something like one-fourth of the DS audience).

The problems with Lunar: DS had nothing to do with the hardware. It was entirely how it was fleshed out between the storyboard and inception. KF

Kizyr wrote:Cut scenes don't add anywhere near as much as you may think. Besides which, releasing it for the PSP would've severely limited its potential audience (something like one-fourth of the DS audience).

The problems with Lunar: DS had nothing to do with the hardware. It was entirely how it was fleshed out between the storyboard and inception. KF

I dunno, a Lunar game without any voice acting or any form of cutscene, just text I really think would not of had anywhere near the impact on people that these had.

The Sounds, Music, Videos and Voices make up a huge percentage of what made the games so good, and that couldnt be recreated on that system :/

The games have never been about how many people they can hit, but about the quality behind them.

ofcourse those things alone aren't enough either, the story as you say has to be fleshed out very well too. But they all play vital roles in immersing people into the games.

I entirely disagree; I'd be happy with no voice acting at all, and I loved the sprite scenes in Lunar Legend. In a way, animated scenes seem to be taking the easy way out, instead of making detailed sprites expressive. I do wish the music quality had been decent in Legend, though.

Well, I finally finished the game. I guess posting about it here gave me the sudden desire to pick it up again. I guess I finished it more out of compulsiveness than anything, because seriously, I was hating almost every moment.

I have to wonder if Gamearts, or more accurately, the people that did the original games had much involvement in this. I know there was one or two supervisors from Gamearts and that the character designer is the same, but other than that it seems like it was all JAM that developed it. I know they did good jobs on the remakes but ...gah, this game was terrible. ;_;

Take hydrocodone with some Nyquil while playing and it will improve..

Seriously though...

GhaleonOne wrote: Dragon Song's problems were it's execution of the storyline and all around shoddy gameplay. The story had no real build up. It was missing all the story segments the other Lunar titles had, and the gameplay was just horrible.

Add all that with the anticipation of a new Lunar for all these years and it equals somethig not that good.. I don't think adding voice acting or cutscenes would have hurt it. But I don't know what kind of budget they were on so...

Alunissage wrote:I entirely disagree; I'd be happy with no voice acting at all, and I loved the sprite scenes in Lunar Legend. In a way, animated scenes seem to be taking the easy way out, instead of making detailed sprites expressive. I do wish the music quality had been decent in Legend, though.

True, Chrono Trigger pulled that off very well with expressive sprites
Personally, I still think for me, that the music, movies and voice acting played a big part to bringing the games to life. Since I played it first with them, its hard to even think of going back and doing it again without it, or imagining it without them.

Though since there is no more Lunar games to remake, I guess sprites will really just be a thing of the past.

With regard to Dragon Song, while I do admit that animation, cutscenes, voice acting, and so on would be nice, that is so far down on my list of gripes that I would never get to it. DS is one of only two games (Xenosaga II being the other) that I've started playing, actually been interested in the story, and quit because the gameplay was a major block to having any fun with it.

Besides, it's not like the DS can't handle a certain measure of animation, either (Castlevania intros, for example). Given the generally smaller size of the game, adding a few minutes would have been possible (voice acting is another issue--I'm simply not familiar enough with the technical specs, or indeed the underlying concepts, to know how much of that would be possible).

And on a completely different note, it's now taken exactly one post for me to rabidly hate Firefox's spellcheck function. Which, I may add, tells me that the word "spellcheck" is itself misspelled. Ah, irony.

If they had actually wanted to, a limited amount of animation and voice acting could have been done, absolutely. It would probably be a limited amout, about the same as in TSS, though.

I'll also say the lack of cutscenes is very low on my list of complaints about Dragon Song, but I did feel a bit cheated that there wasn't at least a cut-away still shot of that round airship-type thing you get towards the end of the game, though. I thought the design for it was cool, and I would have loved to see something more of it. I don't suppose there's any artwork of it floating around on the internet somewhere, is there?

The real horror of Dragon Song was breaking equipment and no targeting. Everything else could've been bearable, but...

I also don't agree with Jian needing items for his spells. Silly idea, that.

The story...my main problem with that is that it cut off too soon. And that the ending sucked, and there was a distinct lack of Ignatius to beat the everlovin' goddess out of.

I seem to recall that Miyaji said in an interview that he liked Ignatius so much they may not be done with him in that game. Probably related to his not actually dying on-camera.

The equipment for spells makes sense given that in both versions of Lunar 2 crests were necessary to enable the dragon spells.

Yes, but Jian can only use one ring at a time, and it's severely limiting. Also, in Lunar 2, Dragonmasters don't exist anymore. In Dragon Song, however, it's still the era of Dragonmasters, and Jian is still trying to achieve that mighty rank. As such, Alex type rules should apply.

Also, about Ignatius...a long long time ago, I said they should've dressed him in the Dragonmaster armor. I still wish they had. He'd have been a better villain that way and would've looked less like a Ghaleon wannabe.

You could justify it by saying that Ingatius already was the existing Dragonmaster for that era, and since he definitely wasn't about to abandon that power a la Dyne, the Dragons couldn't just hand out a fresh set of Dragonmaster goodies to Jian (distinct lack of Dragon Armor, fugly-looking Dragon Helmet, etc. as well, IIRC), so they had to do things the hard way, by cobbling some extra Dragon power into the rings and go from there.

Probably why Jian had to kill the Dragons to get the job done; that Dragon magic was probably powered by the Dragons' life force; you sure as heck didn't see Alex doing that!

DezoPenguin wrote: Probably why Jian had to kill the Dragons to get the job done; that Dragon magic was probably powered by the Dragons' life force; you sure as heck didn't see Alex doing that!

Wait, Jian had to kill the dragons! NO WONDER LUCIA/ALTHENA DECIDED NOT TO STICK WITH HIM!!!! Dragon killer.....

On another note, the main villian was a previous Dragonmaster?

phyco126 wrote:On another note, the main villian was a previous Dragonmaster?

He was a current Dragonmaster. There was this whole thing where Jian was attempting to become a Dragonmaster while there already was one active, and it made the two become bonded because of that.

This is the number one reason Dragon Song pisses me off; it has this awesome character arc for Jian, but it gets buried by the lack of development beyond the storyboards and the terrible gameplay. His arc is a different sort of exploration of the power of humanity, this time delving into humanity's dual nature of good and evil. The basic idea is that Jian has to learn to trust the people around him and not just use his power to cut down people who oppose him, or else he'll become just as evil as Ignatius. If it had been properly fleshed out, it would have been a perfect third entry into the Lunar series, but instead we got this load of poo on a stick. Damn you, JAM!