Suggested Races and Classes

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Suggested Races and Classes

Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:29 pm

It occurs to me that I haven't been able to get around to making those class and race suggestions... There have been a few already, and I'll incorporate those as best I can. But this list will be mostly centered on continuity with the rest of the Lunar series; balancing out stats can come later.

Anyway, first of all, we have a setting of approximately 300 years prior to TSS. During this time, the Vile Tribe has been banished to the Frontier, there are magic school(s) across the world, and there's the occasional Vile Tribe outbreak as in Magic / Walking School. Also, there are a few of the more human-looking Vile Tribe members who live among general society (particularly in Vane), but those are rapidly diminishing in number. Lastly, the world looks much as it would in TSS's time, with a few small changes here and there possible (and some new towns, or lack of towns that don't yet exist).

Races:

(definitely include...)
Human: Basic, average human, same as most of the protagonists in the series. Capable of magic, and a few innate abilities.
Beastman: Pureblood beastman, like Mel de Alkirk, Zethos, or Gabryel. Usually have higher strength, but the same variability in magical abilities as humans.
Half-Beast: Mixture of beast and human, like Jessica de Alkirk, Senia, Leo, or Mauri.
Lytonian: Lytonians are diminutive in stature and usually pacifists. These are the residents of Lyton, who usually are about the same height as children even up to adulthood (similar to halflings, but it's better to avoid using a pre-existing term). They usually have pointed ears like beastmen, but otherwise look like small humans.

(maybe include...)
Pixie: Pixies are very rare in Lunar. They are very weak, but always have innate magical abilities, often including shapeshifting.
Merfolk: Mermaids/mermen are only in Lunar: Magic School. They're not really underwater creatures, but appear human with the ability to shapeshift into aquatic form and breath underwater. Other than their shapeshifting abilities, they have the same variability in magical powers as humans.

(probably not include...)
Vile Tribe (Human): These are individuals like Ghaleon, Phacia, or Xenobia. They appear human, often have tattoos across themselves, and red eyes. They always have innate magical abilities, including the power to cast spells without incantations (i.e., very quickly). Most who have rebelled against Althena have been banished to the Vile Tribe, and hence they're very rare now.
Vile Tribe (Demonic): These are individuals who look like the more monstrous Vile Tribe. They're the residents of Talon Mine in SSS (only), or Gideon from DS, or Ghaleon's final form in TSS. They may have innate magical abilities, but some have little to no useful magic powers any longer.

I say you probably shouldn't include the Vile Tribe since it's best to avoid a situation where everyone wants to be Vile Tribe. It doesn't work too well to have a rare and mysterious race that just anyone can be in.


Classes:

(main classes...)
Warrior: Focuses on swords and other weaponry (axes, e.g.), armor, etc. Usually little or no magical ability. Examples include: Kyle, Laike.
Thief: Focuses on agility, speed, and stealth. Usually uses distance weapons or tools, but doesn't do much fighting. Examples include the Thieves' Guild at Reza.
Mage: Forte is magical abilities and intelligence, usually rather weak. Only weapons are usually distance ones like bows or slings, or magical ones like staves and canes. Examples include: Nash, Mia, Lemina.
Priest: Like the Cleric DnD class, usually has healing magic and use of armor and maces, flails, hammers, or similar weapons. Examples include: Jessica, Ronfar.
Martial Artist: Focuses on attacks involving speed and agility, not as much of a focus on stealth (like the thief). Fights either unarmed or with claws, knuckles, shuriken, etc. Examples include: Jean, Lunn, Jian.
Ranger: Range of abilities related to survival and mobility, including horseback riding, hunting, etc. Common weapons include distance weapons, such as longbows and whips. Examples include: Tempest, Fresca.

(combination classes...)
Fighter: This is a warrior who has certain magical abilities, sometimes using both in conjunction with one another. Oftentimes makes for the main character of a given game. Most Dragonmasters are this type of character. Examples include: Alex, Hiro, Leo.
Bandit/Pirate: Combination of a Warrior and a Ranger in terms of abilities, and a Thief in terms of purpose. Examples include: Kyle, Mel de Alkirk.


So that's 8 classes, and 6 races (with possibly 2 more). If this sounds good, perhaps we could work on balancing out stats once there's a good idea of what stats will be involved in the game. KF

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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:41 pm

Are Leo and Mauri definitely half Beastmen? I remember they were originally going to be centaurs, so I'd think they were full. Gwyn might be half, though; he struck me as more human-looking, with only the ears being different.

I agree with your reasoning concerning the Vile Tribe; I suppose the same would apply to half-Viles? There have been a couple of those, of course, and it's even possible that Hiro was of that descent.

Any particular reason we *have* to use DnD types? Why is it necessary to always do the same characteristics? Why shouldn't a priest wield a bow (which Ronfar can in EB) or a sword? And Kyle was called a ninja in TSS, or at least in the TSS manual.

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:55 pm

I most definitely appreciate this.

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Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:42 pm

Alunissage wrote:Are Leo and Mauri definitely half Beastmen? I remember they were originally going to be centaurs, so I'd think they were full. Gwyn might be half, though; he struck me as more human-looking, with only the ears being different.


That might be the case. There wasn't a lot specific as to which they were (I think a lot of the distinctions between humans and beastmen, at least psychologically, had faded by then).

I agree with your reasoning concerning the Vile Tribe; I suppose the same would apply to half-Viles? There have been a couple of those, of course, and it's even possible that Hiro was of that descent.


The thing is, I can't think of any negative trade-offs with having part-Vile Tribes. And unless it's a significant share (i.e., not just being of Vile Tribe descent, like Hiro) then I don't think it'll make a big difference when modifying stats. Sounds like having Vile Tribe descent is more suitable to be part of a character's background, rather than being part of their racial background.

Any particular reason we *have* to use DnD types? Why is it necessary to always do the same characteristics? Why shouldn't a priest wield a bow (which Ronfar can in EB) or a sword? And Kyle was called a ninja in TSS, or at least in the TSS manual.


We don't have to use DnD types, which is why most of those classes are not DnD archetypes--even the ones with similar names to a DnD class have significant differences. I also never said that priests can't wield certain weapons, but there are certain types which they wield more often--Ronfar is more suited to a hammer or mace, as Jessica is more suited to maces, flails, or claws. Kyle also isn't your typical ninja, but fits a Bandit class a lot more closely. KF

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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:09 pm

Kizyr wrote:The thing is, I can't think of any negative trade-offs with having part-Vile Tribes. And unless it's a significant share (i.e., not just being of Vile Tribe descent, like Hiro) then I don't think it'll make a big difference when modifying stats. Sounds like having Vile Tribe descent is more suitable to be part of a character's background, rather than being part of their racial background.

The only thing that comes to mind offhand is that theme in the Vheen manga about the Mazoku growing old in their garden and slowly dying out. I wonder if that might translate to very low physical defense. Probably wouldn't be much difference between them and any other mage, though.

(Also, note that Latona was defeated by the human Guildmistress using an elemental spell; that might imply weakness to magical attacks as well... not so standard for a mage. Would have to accompany this with high HP or they'd get slaughtered, but again this works with the longevity thing.)

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Postby WD RPG WD » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:23 pm

Thanks for this Kizyr. I will defenantly use this as my guide. You have saved me much time.

First things first. My skill in coding has improved over the last six months so I can be able to do some things I couldnt before.

I really need the Vile tribe to be in the game. Are all Vile tribe people born into it or do some convert? Like in my game, couldn't I have it where if you kill other players and innocent people you turn into a vile tribe member sort of like when Ghlaeon trnsformed into a beast? Or since Vile tribe members are also human form I can just change the class if they kill people. To avoid having too many people as vile tribe members I can set it so only a certain level can become them. better yet In the magor cities like Meribia very strong guards will be walking around to prevent low level Vile tribesman to enter.

I can code it to turn their "sprite" into a differant one the second they kill a human.

The chr. chooser in the game unfortunatly is a drop down menu and it will be annoying to have it setup like:

1.Human - Warrior
2.Human -- Mage
3.
.
.
6Beastman Warrior
7.Beastman Mage

all the way down the line.

I might just have to make a "door to your left or right"
kind of thing. Go through door 1 for human door 2 for Beastman 3 Half beast etc...

Some things like Merfolk will be difficult to include because Im not using original graphics. Everything in the game has to come from SSSC or EB. The races will be taken from actual sprites in the game.

I already have one new city in the game. Dont kill me :x it's on an Island to the south of Caldor. Ill have a screen shot of it soon. It's looking pretty good if I do say so. It's called Saido. Its more of a classy rich people Island.

The stats you can adjust for each class and sprite is

Strength
Defense
Speed (evading attacks gaining levels quicker)
Magic

Starting equipment and starting spells.

Mage's would start with the basic fire spell. There are a large range of spells including single person attack and area effect spells and those areas can grow extremely large depending on teh level. Mage's as usual would have a huge advantage over everyone else. I'll have to counteract that with extremely low Defense. I like the idea of having pirates as well. I can also include where each class starts the game. Pirates on an island, Priest in Black Rose street and so on.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:15 am

How about a dancer class? It would definately be fun. High agility, fans as weapons, and a focus on status-effect spells.
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Postby Asmodean » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:12 pm

ilovemyguitar wrote:How about a dancer class? It would definately be fun. High agility, fans as weapons, and a focus on status-effect spells.


And let's not forget the Bards! Granted Luna was the only real Bardish character.
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Postby Kizyr » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:00 pm

Asmodean wrote:And let's not forget the Bards! Granted Luna was the only real Bardish character.


There have been references to bards in the novels. I hadn't considered having a bard class; the only down side is I can't quite think how someone would balance the bard class to where it's not incredibly weak compared to everything else. Bards work better when there's a way in-game they can make up for their lack of combat skills (like diplomatic encounters, negotations, that kind of thing).

ilovemyguitar wrote:How about a dancer class? It would definately be fun. High agility, fans as weapons, and a focus on status-effect spells.


Dancer class was one I considered and did want to include. However, it'd be too overlapping with the Martial Artist class. Considering Jean is the only example of a combat-dancer, and (according to the Japanese Lunar EB) she was still using karate while she was fighting with her dance steps, I don't think a separate dancer class would work.

I think a better option would be to have "dance" skills as part of magic abilities someone could select if they picked a Martial Artist class.

WD wrote:I really need the Vile tribe to be in the game. Are all Vile tribe people born into it or do some convert? Like in my game, couldn't I have it where if you kill other players and innocent people you turn into a vile tribe member sort of like when Ghlaeon trnsformed into a beast? Or since Vile tribe members are also human form I can just change the class if they kill people.


First off, Vile Tribe are born as Vile Tribe, so it's part of their race. However, there is evidence that someone who's human-looking can transform into demonic-looking, and it's just as plausible that it can go in the other direction, too.

If you have more good ideas like that that would limit what you can do as a Vile Tribe, then that may work well enough to allow Vile Tribe as a selectable race for the game. One thing to remember, though, is that demonic-looking Vile Tribe will probably be shut out of every town, while human-looking Vile Tribe will at least be able to enter Vane and perhaps a few other major cities, but might be barred from entering some areas.

WD wrote:Some things like Merfolk will be difficult to include because Im not using original graphics. Everything in the game has to come from SSSC or EB. The races will be taken from actual sprites in the game.


That's understandable if you can't incorporate those. Merfolk aren't really a major thing, just one other race that did show up during this time that I think might've been interesting to have.

WD wrote:I already have one new city in the game. Dont kill me Mad it's on an Island to the south of Caldor. Ill have a screen shot of it soon. It's looking pretty good if I do say so. It's called Saido. Its more of a classy rich people Island.


Oh that's great! There were actually several other islands besides Caldor mentioned in the SSS novelization--if you want any suggestions on names, then I could look back through the book, find that part, and offer some name suggestions based on that.

WD wrote:Starting equipment and starting spells.

Mage's would start with the basic fire spell. There are a large range of spells including single person attack and area effect spells and those areas can grow extremely large depending on teh level. Mage's as usual would have a huge advantage over everyone else. I'll have to counteract that with extremely low Defense.


One thing I think might be useful for character customization, along with race, is with the starting spells (and starting skills, which would probably work the same way as magic--we're talking sword skills like Kyle, Hiro, or Leo's sword attacks).

For instance, you could have several classes of spells (e.g., fire, ice, lightning, healing, swords, martial arts, dance, chance, etc.). Among those, you can choose a certain amount depending on your class. For instance, Mages could choose any three elemental magics, Warriors can only have Swords skills, Martial Artists can choose Martial Arts and one non-elemental magic, Priests can choose Healing and one other magic, Thiefs can choose one elemental magic or Martial Arts, etc.

There would be a default spell set for some of the classes, and you could choose X different spell sets from a selected list, again depending on your class. Vile Tribe and Pixies could perhaps have a "bonus" spell set.

If that sounds good, I might could suggest which spell sets could be included, and the general composition of each (status effects, area attacks, local attacks, etc.--depending both on the games themselves and on what might balance things out the best, and depending on some previous suggestions along the same lines). KF

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Postby Asmodean » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:01 pm

Kizyr wrote:
Asmodean wrote:And let's not forget the Bards! Granted Luna was the only real Bardish character.


There have been references to bards in the novels. I hadn't considered having a bard class; the only down side is I can't quite think how someone would balance the bard class to where it's not incredibly weak compared to everything else. Bards work better when there's a way in-game they can make up for their lack of combat skills (like diplomatic encounters, negotations, that kind of thing). KF


The way I see it, I can settle for weak. We all KNOW that Bards are the Sexay! That natural charm is good enough for me!

:: starts to sing Sexy Back by Justin Timberlake ::
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Postby ilovemyguitar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:03 pm

Asmodean wrote:
Kizyr wrote:
Asmodean wrote:And let's not forget the Bards! Granted Luna was the only real Bardish character.


There have been references to bards in the novels. I hadn't considered having a bard class; the only down side is I can't quite think how someone would balance the bard class to where it's not incredibly weak compared to everything else. Bards work better when there's a way in-game they can make up for their lack of combat skills (like diplomatic encounters, negotations, that kind of thing). KF


The way I see it, I can settle for weak. We all KNOW that Bards are the Sexay! That natural charm is good enough for me!

:: starts to sing Sexy Back by Justin Timberlake ::


Haha, if there's a Song skillset, there should be a spell that has a Charm effect on enemies called Sexyback.
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Postby WD RPG WD » Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:35 pm

Hey Kiz, if you could give me some town names and other islands that would be great.

Also my brother and I wanted to include actual Lunar characters in the game to help with making a good story. So now we are trying to decide if we should do it 200 years before or 20.

One thing that's dissapointed me is that there are no Status effect spells like Poisoned in the game engine. So now I need to figure out how to code it into the game. Once I figure that out we can discuss spells.

(no sexyback spell) :?

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:55 pm

Will you be able to adjust or choose some skin colors so black people don't whine?

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Postby WD RPG WD » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:54 pm

uhh, what?

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:03 am

WD RPG WD wrote:(no sexyback spell) :?


Aww, you know you want it. :P
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Postby phyco126 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:43 am

WD RPG WD wrote:uhh, what?


I think he means "will character toons be customizable in appearance, including skin color, eyes, hair, etc etc etc...."
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Postby GhaleonOne » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:48 am

Yeah, but it was a really weird way of saying it...
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Postby Haru » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:45 pm

Don’t create differences between races. Create only one race – humans. But if somebody begins to generate its character, he could choose the appearance like Jessica or Leo (half beast/half human). But their characters will also be humans. I advise you this “job tree”:
Beginner (neutral)-->
1) Fighter (white dragon)-->
a) Dragon master (good)
b) Barbarian (evil)
2) Healer (blue dragon)-->
a) Priest (good)
b) Dark priest (evil)
3) Magician (red dragon)-->
a) Alchemist (good)
b) Wizard (evil)
4) Hunter (black dragon)-->
a) Dancer (good)
b) Beast master (evil)

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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:54 pm

Seeing as how every Lunar game has made the distinction between humans, beastmen, and Vile Tribe, it'd be really silly to make everyone human. Dragonmaster obviously can't be a class because there's only one. There are no alchemists in the games. Etc.

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Postby phyco126 » Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:54 am

Alunissage wrote:Seeing as how every Lunar game has made the distinction between humans, beastmen, and Vile Tribe, it'd be really silly to make everyone human. Dragonmaster obviously can't be a class because there's only one. There are no alchemists in the games. Etc.


Damn, there goes my dreams of being the Fullmetal Alchemist. :( :( :( :(

Though, there where inventors of mechanical stuff in the games, so would it be possible to have a crafting class?
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