Lunar Threads

Maybe sort of a "sequel" to Lunar 2. I think it's been mentioned here before about the possibility of Lucia becoming evil.

Sure, Hiro could very well have eternal life now, but I think a heart-wrenching story would be for, in the beginning, it shows a lovely, mostly revived Blue Star, and then a dying, obviously aged Hiro laying in his still young lover's lap. After they conversate a little, Hiro dies in Lucia's arms.

Lucia is similar to, say, a dragon, and cannot age nor can she be reborn as human, so she has to suffer watching Hiro age and eventually die. She takes her rage out on the Blue Star, covering most of it in flames, then she looks at the sky, up at Lunar, and says to herself, "I will get revenge upon the world that has caused me such agony."

The story then kicks off when Nall (who will be the male protag) receives an omen from Luna via dream. She tells Nall that he must gather the other dragons, as well as a new band of "four heroes" and other allies, to "save" the impending threat. Yes, the game won't just focus on defeating Lucia, but also saving her from insanity and possession by Zophar (he says in EB that he cannot truly be defeated, so maybe a little part of Zophar has possessed Lucia's body and his power awakens whenever she finds herself in anguish).

For the battle system and such, I think it should be a cool combination of SSH's, MSL!'s, and another game, Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory's battle system. The max amount of six party members on the field at once from MSL!, pretty much everything from SSH, but the arts gauge working like HDN V's EXE gauge; you build up EXE points by fighting enemies and taking damage. At first the EXE gauge is only at 1, but by beating bosses you can get it up to 5. Each character has a wide range of powerful EXE finisher attacks, each costing 1-5 points depending on the move and whether or not it's a team-up move. Speaking of team-ups, much like HDN V, you can pair two characters up, one being in the frontline (meaning they'll be on the field first) and the other being in the backline (meaning they won't show on the field), and you have the option to switch between the two in battle.

Another little HDN V-inspired feature would be allowing the players decide if they would rather listen to the English dub or the original Japanese dialogue with English subtitles.

Yell at me all ya want but I'd love to see the game with 3D models and graphics, so it shows how far Lunar has come. And it can still have hand-drawn animation cutscenes and keep 3D game graphics. Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch is a prime example of games being able to do animation + 3D. They could even use recycled iDOLM@STER models (since they are made to look like Toshiyuki Kubooka's illustrations; he did design the iM@S characters, after all) as bases for making 3D models that match the animated cutscenes.

Lastly, I want both downloadable and unlockable content. Additional characters and costumes is what I want to see most, especially if they're unlockable. For downloadable stuff, maybe little side-quests you can play in the game's epilogue. Obviously some characters and costumes will have to be downloaded. My first thought is a fanservicey one; swimwear costumes and a beach quest, featuring ladies in bikinis and swimsuits, and the gentlemen in swimming trunks annnd how about speedos for the sake of humor? The beach quest could be about slaying a Slime or something. Also, as DLC characters; the original Lunar 1 cast (in a DLC quest where you explore a tomb to find they have been magically revived or something) and also Alice from Childhood's End, maybe even Phacia too!

The main characters will be the four dragons and the great-grandchildren of Lunar 2's main cast.

What all do you guys think? Any other suggestions? I'm actually writing a little story about all this soooo suggestions are welcome.

I don't disagree that Ni no Kuni's style would be a nice fit for Lunar, to be sure. And I've loved some of what I've seen in 3D. The cute detail of Lunar Legend's sprites would translate very well into Ni no Kuni's models. Which makes me think of yet another Lunar 1 iteration...

But I seriously think Lunar has had sufficient "male protagonist" representation. If you wanted to build a story around repercussions from Hiro's death, wouldn't Ruby be the logical lead character? Nall isn't that attached to Hiro, even if he did hand over the sword, but Ruby definitely is. Though I'm not really a fan of the story you outline myself... I just don't really see Lucia's character going in that direction, especially since she already left Hiro once. Also, I think Zophar's line about never truly being defeated was a WD addition. I have no particular quibble with it (it makes sense to me that he would be unkillable as it fits into my own concept of him and Althena), just saying.

I also have to say that while Lunar has certainly historically had a nontrivial amount of fanservice, it would be rather nice to see games move AWAY from the female = eyecandy default. I mean, hello, we're actually more than the sum of our body parts. I can't argue the point that previous game characters would make for obvious DLC, of course.

Back to the story, it seems to me that you could make a motivating reason for a party to gather and go to the Blue Star without Hiro dying of old age. Could even do a reverse-EB, sort of as you suggest, where someone on Lunar senses that Lucia (and by extension Hiro) are missing and go to find them. Can't you see Hiro doing some archaeologizing, tripping some ancient trap or stirring some other malign magic, and Lucia doing something drastic to try to save him and getting trapped herself? I could see the party looking for them, as Lucia does in EB and perhaps taking actions that speed the process of reviving the Blue Star as they search. Hm, I'll have to continue that line of thought offline and see if it fits in with my nebulous prequel ideas.

Good thoughts overall, and thanks for sharing Klover. Alunissage, I think putting Ruby instead of Nall as the main character gets at one of my qualms, which is that Nall wouldn't be best suited to have an emotional connection to Hiro's death.

While I like a plot that takes up Hiro's mortality in some way, I really don't see swinging into villainous rage as a part of Lucia's character. She is dutiful and determined to the point of leaving Hiro when she thinks that duty and love are mutually exclusive. At most (as in the first fight with Zophar) she breaks the rules for seemingly good reasons with a faulty premise (her lack of trust in people causes her to absorb all of Lunar's energy; her concern for Hiro makes her falter and lose the fight). No, I think sorrow is a stronger emotion to write around than hate in Lucia's case, such that Lucia would either make the same choice as Hiro (growing old, trusting humanity, dying with him) or that she would close herself off afterwards and return to isolation.

With Lunar, each game has centered on a villain that wants in some way or another to take control of Althena's power, whether for very twisted ideals (Ghaleon), out of pure malice (Zophar), and so on. In an age where the goddess is a more distant presence, it would be interesting to see a slightly darker story involving more human ambition. The remnants of Zophar's malice and traces of Althena's power can linger and influence events without their being a primary thing. So where the primary story might be about Ruby investigating Hiro being lost or even just coming back to Lunar, we might see a human overlord, or a destructive conflict with no clear good people. In other words,a situation a little more reminiscent of Growlanser or Radiant Historia.

Thanks for the comments.

Good point about Ruby being more connected to Hiro, but I was, at that time, thinking of someone who had a connection to Luna since she would be the one to deliver an omen, which made me think of Nall. But again, I did only say male protagonist. I was thinking him and Ruby would both be protags, with Ruby being the player character while both serve equal plot importance, but, now that I hear your comments, I am thinking about that "having a feeling that Lucia and Hiro are missing" part. And I definitely agree with Lunar needing another lady protag since the only female protagonist in Lunar is Ellie and none of the Walking School games made it overseas; only the ones with male protagonists did. So, yeah, I'm up for Ruby being the protagonist.

And so, I am now picturing Ruby having a dream where Hiro and Lucia are calling to her, but she can't understand what they're saying, although she does get a bad vibe from the feeling of her dream. Not sure if she would be on her own (maybe staying at the place that was once Gwyn's house) or still with Nall at Taben's Peak. Now that we're also mentioning Hiro and Lucia still being alive, I'm now thinking of a plot that takes place a mere 17-24 years after Lunar 2, maybe?

Sonic# wrote: With Lunar, each game has centered on a villain that wants in some way or another to take control of Althena's power, whether for very twisted ideals (Ghaleon), out of pure malice (Zophar), and so on. In an age where the goddess is a more distant presence, it would be interesting to see a slightly darker story involving more human ambition. The remnants of Zophar's malice and traces of Althena's power can linger and influence events without their being a primary thing. So where the primary story might be about Ruby investigating Hiro being lost or even just coming back to Lunar, we might see a human overlord, or a destructive conflict with no clear good people. In other words,a situation a little more reminiscent of Growlanser or Radiant Historia.

Interesting. I hadn't really though of Lunar as a series which could have a story whose conflict is primarily one of human ambition. Probably because I tend to associate such stories with political intrigue and the politics of Lunar are really loosely defined. But I think you may be on to something here. The loss of Althena as a "real" presence could open up some possibilities. Just as an example, I could see a Lunar 3 in which the antagonist is someone who sees Lunar as divided without the unifying influence of Althena and decides to try and unify the world by force "for its own good." There'd be some echoes of Ghaleon there of course but with its own twist. Of course this is getting pretty far removed from Klover's idea and I don't want to derail the thread. Just thinking out loud here.

Klover wrote:Maybe sort of a "sequel" to Lunar 2. I think it's been mentioned here before about the possibility of Lucia becoming evil.

Sure, Hiro could very well have eternal life now, but I think a heart-wrenching story would be for, in the beginning, it shows a lovely, mostly revived Blue Star, and then a dying, obviously aged Hiro laying in his still young lover's lap. After they conversate a little, Hiro dies in Lucia's arms.

Lucia is similar to, say, a dragon, and cannot age nor can she be reborn as human, so she has to suffer watching Hiro age and eventually die. She takes her rage out on the Blue Star, covering most of it in flames, then she looks at the sky, up at Lunar, and says to herself, "I will get revenge upon the world that has caused me such agony."

The story then kicks off when Nall (who will be the male protag) receives an omen from Luna via dream. She tells Nall that he must gather the other dragons, as well as a new band of "four heroes" and other allies, to "save" the impending threat. Yes, the game won't just focus on defeating Lucia, but also saving her from insanity and possession by Zophar (he says in EB that he cannot truly be defeated, so maybe a little part of Zophar has possessed Lucia's body and his power awakens whenever she finds herself in anguish).

Changing it to Ruby as the main character is something we've all agreed on so far, it seems. I love what you're working with and I find that shocking. I'm a nostalgic type that hates change. I suggest that perhaps instead of the rage towards Lunar, Zophar's remaining existence/influences remaining in Lucia is only able to grow and take power over Lucia when she falls into a deep depression over Hiro's death. How about it happens...two weeks after Hiro dies? Nall talks in Lunar 2 about having to see everyone age and pass and how hard it was. This way we'd get to see this and see how Ruby and Lucia each handle it in their own ways. It would deepen Ruby's understanding of what Nall has already gone through and deepen their bond. I also like the idea of the final battle being one of those in-the-soul/mind fights where you battle and there's also dialogue with the characters talking to Lucia and pulling her out of her depression.

Alunissage wrote:I don't disagree that Ni no Kuni's style would be a nice fit for Lunar, to be sure. And I've loved some of what I've seen in 3D. The cute detail of Lunar Legend's sprites would translate very well into Ni no Kuni's models. Which makes me think of yet another Lunar 1 iteration...

But I seriously think Lunar has had sufficient "male protagonist" representation. If you wanted to build a story around repercussions from Hiro's death, wouldn't Ruby be the logical lead character? Nall isn't that attached to Hiro, even if he did hand over the sword, but Ruby definitely is. Though I'm not really a fan of the story you outline myself... I just don't really see Lucia's character going in that direction, especially since she already left Hiro once. Also, I think Zophar's line about never truly being defeated was a WD addition. I have no particular quibble with it (it makes sense to me that he would be unkillable as it fits into my own concept of him and Althena), just saying.

I also have to say that while Lunar has certainly historically had a nontrivial amount of fanservice, it would be rather nice to see games move AWAY from the female = eyecandy default. I mean, hello, we're actually more than the sum of our body parts. I can't argue the point that previous game characters would make for obvious DLC, of course.

If I was to bring Lunar's art style to the third dimension, my mind goes to Tales Of Symphonia's engine but with the best visuals currently possible. I'd have it be a PS4 title.
I like Ruby as the protagonist because it makes the most sense with the idea. With the position the world is in with progressing women's rights, there's sure to be plenty of situations where a female is chosen for things just to give the impression of progressiveness and that way down the line, it'll be obvious and corny looking back.

Lucia DID leave Hiro once but was overjoyed when she saw him tapping the crystal she was resting in. Being alone on the blue star was easy before she understood what it was to truly feel. Hiro's death throwing her into a depression would be probable since she made great strides in emotional development in the events of EBC alone. A full life with Hiro and potentially children (depending on if a human and a Goddess-ish whatever Lucia is are genetic matches) would have made major changes in that department.

I feel that Lunar has done a GREAT job on respecting females and the fan-service is a part of that. Women are beautiful and sexy and that -Dragon Diamond- deserves to be celebrated. There's no shame to be had in it and equality was there since there's a male spring too. The women are treated respectfully in the stories. Jean is one of my favorite characters in the series.

Sonic# wrote:Good thoughts overall, and thanks for sharing Klover. Alunissage, I think putting Ruby instead of Nall as the main character gets at one of my qualms, which is that Nall wouldn't be best suited to have an emotional connection to Hiro's death.

While I like a plot that takes up Hiro's mortality in some way, I really don't see swinging into villainous rage as a part of Lucia's character. She is dutiful and determined to the point of leaving Hiro when she thinks that duty and love are mutually exclusive. At most (as in the first fight with Zophar) she breaks the rules for seemingly good reasons with a faulty premise (her lack of trust in people causes her to absorb all of Lunar's energy; her concern for Hiro makes her falter and lose the fight). No, I think sorrow is a stronger emotion to write around than hate in Lucia's case, such that Lucia would either make the same choice as Hiro (growing old, trusting humanity, dying with him) or that she would close herself off afterwards and return to isolation.

This isn't even an option until the blue star has no more dependence on her. We see a little grass growing at the end of the 2nd game, but we have no basis for how close it was to that point for us to have any idea of the rate of progress for the blue star.

A MAJOR concern for me is this. If it's a three dimensional game where you play as a dragon, how does the flying work? Can you elevate? Press a button to land? Are you stuck at the same distance fro the ground at all times? Would there be tons of parts in the game where the player is left thinking "Why doesn't she just fly over there?" when there's an obstacle similar to older games in which a waist-height fence stopped a protagonist from gaining access to a new area.

Do you have control over taking human form/normal size/huge?

Actually I was about to post here to say what's already been said. A Ni No Kuni visual style would be so well suited to Lunar. I hope if someday Lunar 3 gets made it gets co developed by Level 5 and gets some Ghibli help.

As good a Studio Ghibli's movies are, I don't want Lunar to look like one. I want it to be as close to a 3D version of the FMVs in the PSX titles as possible.

I agree. I think for Ni No Kuni Level 5 wanted a Miyazaki esque character design. They are also capable of adapting as is shown in their other works done for others where they did animation and no character design, also their last film When Marnie was There is really different design wise.

How about a game about the first Dragon Master, ever?

I wouldn't mind having games for each of the dragonmasters named in the library books. The Alicia and Laticia idea would be a nice departure too.

There are just so much to explore. But at the same time too much getting to know their origin story too much may not be the best thing. I would think a fresh start with a new cast is probably a good direction for Lunar 3.