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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:52 am
by DragonmasterDan
dhowerter wrote:ALL -
I see. So you're convinced there is NO chance whatsoever of finding what I'm looking for? (BTW I've said in previous posts that you can provide what I'm looking for as a English web site, a Japanese web site (with the person who provided it or someone here translating the important part), OR a scan of a Japanese magazine with the info (and soemone here or the poster translating the important part).
So even with all those options, you still see NO chance whatsoever of finding what I'm looking for?
Not no chance whatsoever, but its highly unlikely, Walking School/Magical School isn't a regular topic brought up in the few interviews with the Lunar development team that have been held. The exact question as of "If it's a gaiden" might well never have been asked in a published interview. I'm not saying what your asking for is impossible but it's not likely to be found.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:57 am
by localflick
AAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!
This thread is driving me crazy!!! But I can't stop reading it!!!
dhowerter -
You've been told several times that it's REALLY annoying to post with all that space.
Your question has also been answered many, many times. Kiz and Ghaleon1 gave you several sources.
The terms prequel, sequel, gaiden, and side-quest have been described/explained to you, (several times now) so how can you disagree with a definition?
People are really going out of their way to look things up and answer your question.
So what I want to know is when will you be content with the answers you've been given? Will this thread go on forever or what?
...see spacing everything out IS annoying.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:31 am
by Angelalex242
If it wasn't a side story, and they thought it'd sell, it'd have been Marketed to US audiences, and a significant number more of us would've actually played it.
I know how it is to be passionate about topics...believe me, I KNOW. But...err. Kinda cut and dry, this. It's not like debating politics. It's more like debating if Columbus really sailed the Ocean Blue in 1492.
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:35 am
by DevNall
I'm guessing that WS not coming to the US was probably Victor Ireland's decision: I get the impression he's never been interested in portable gaming, and if he'd still been on good terms with SEGA, maybe we'd have gotten it for the Saturn?
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:31 am
by Kizyr
DragonmasterDan wrote:Just worth noting Walking School was definitely released in 95 not 96. The box, manual and title screen clearly indicate that. The date listed by GameFaqs is incorrect.
Actually... it's correct. The copyright is in 1995, but the game was released on 1/12/1996. LunarHope lists the same release date.
dhowerter wrote:So even with all those options, you still see NO chance whatsoever of finding what I'm looking for?
If you bothered looking over my second post there, you'd see that I linked three sources that gave exactly what you're looking for. Yes, I capitulated, mostly to get you to stop repeating yourself.
You have the proof you need that MS and WS are side-stories. Even sources directly stating just that. What else do you want? KF
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:49 am
by Alunissage
Not given the negative comments he's made about it. Though I think what that is is him deciding that it wouldn't sell -- and I'm rather inclined to agree -- and then coming up with other reasons to justify it. A heck of a lot of people who played the first two Lunars, with traditional worldsaving adventure with a touch of romance would have found playing as a group of three girls at school rather a letdown.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:08 am
by dhowerter
Kizyr -
NOTE: this quote tag contains three quotes in Japanese and thne Kizyr's translations (FYI)
I dunno why I'm still bothering, but if this will help satisfy your curiousity, this is about the best you're going to find at this point. Following are spot translations (i.e., no editing), 'cause I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this.
Tsutaya Online (game store):
http://www.tsutaya.co.jp/item/game/view ... d=30019140 (Intro to Lunar Series) 1992年メガCDで発売され人気を博したシリーズ1作目『ルナザ・シルバースター』、1994年に発売された2作目『ルナ2 エターナルブルー』、そして外伝『魔法学園ルナ』『ルナさんぽする学園』の発売、さらに小説やコミック、映画と「ルナ」旋風を巻き起こし続けた“ルナ”のシリーズ第3弾が11年ぶりに登場！DSで新たに紡がれる“ルナ”の物語とは…？!
"The first Lunar story, 'Lunar: The Silver Star' was sold and gained popularity on the Mega CD in 1992. In 1994 was the second game, 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue'. And then the side-story, 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar Walking School' was released, also as a novel, comic, and as a movie. Now the Lunar series continues with a third part after 11 years! A new story is told on the Nintendo DS...?!"
Yodobashi.com (store):
http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/39760327.html 1992年、MEGA-CDにて登場した「ルナザ・シルバースター」。美しいアニメーション、魅力的なキャラクター、そして何よりその暖かく優しい物語が話題を呼び、多くのユーザーに人気を博しました。そして1994年には待望の2作目「ルナ2 エターナルブルー」が発売、セガサターン、プレイステーション、GBA、PCと様々なプラットホームへの移植、外伝「魔法学園ルナ」「ルナさんぽする学園」の発売、さらに小説やコミック、映画と「ルナ」旋風を巻き起こしました。
"In 1992 was 'Lunar: The Silver Star' on the Mega CD. With beautiful animation, wonderful characters, and an amazing story, it gained much popularity. Then in 1994 was released the awaited second part, 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue'. It was ported to the Saturn, Playstation, GBA, and PC platforms. Then the side-story 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar: Walking School' was released, likewise a novel, comic, and movie."
Murauchi.com (store):
http://www.murauchi.com/MCJ-front-web/C ... 000669501/ 「LUNAR」シリーズが、ついにDSに登場します。DSならではのダブルスクリーン、タッチパネル機能をフル活用した、新たな「ルナ」の世界がを楽しんでください！！
●キャラクター監修＆イラストデザインは、これまでのシリーズ同様、窪岡俊之氏が担当。旧作のファンも安心して新たな「ルナ」の世界を楽しむ事が出来ます！！
●「ルナ ザ・シルバースター」、「ルナ２エターナルブルー」、外伝である、「魔法学園ルナ」、「ルナ さんぽする学園」に続くシリーズ第3作目として位置付けられる、完全オリジナルストーリーで登場です！！
"The Lunar series has come to the DS. It makes full use of the DS's dual-screen and touch panel. Enjoy the newest part of the Lunar world!!
- Character Supervision and Art Design is by the same person who has done the Lunar series until now, Toshiyuki Kubooka. So fans of the original should feel at east that they can enjoy this new Lunar world!!
- This comes as the third part of the series, and an entirely new story, succeeding 'Lunar: The Silver Star', 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue', and the side-story, 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar: Walking School'."
I'm just running through and translating the meaning, so it's a bit off. Honestly, this is the best you'll find after all these years. If it's not enough, meh, remain unconvinced. Doesn't affect me any. KF
Heh. Thank you for the effort of finding those quotes and then translating them. That was very nice of you
Of course, my next question is: Are any of the three people who you quoted there have anything to do with the Lunar MS development team?
drumlord -
I'm not even sure WHY you're bothering to look for anything. After everything you've read here, you are not satisfied? If somebody says that it IS part of the main series, will you drop it?
Heh. YES.
If someone here can get a quote from anyone on the Lunar MS development team (English or Japanese or a Japanese magazone scan/other printed source - Japanese will have to be translated by someone here of course) saying Lunar Walking School (game Gear) OR Lunar: Magical School (Saturn) is a "side-story", "spinoff", or "Gaiden", then yes!
NOTE: The quote must MENTION Lunar WS or Lunar MS itself
That's why I'm here to find out conclusively one way or the other.
(or at least to TRY anyway - you may be right; the info I want may simply NOT be out there - doesn't mean I can't ask for it tho- maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have seen it or wil find it
localflick -
Your question has also been answered many, many times. Kiz and Ghaleon1 gave you several sources.
Every quote that has been given to me so far has been a "proof of omission". where people claim it is proof because while talking about the Lunar Game series Lunar WS or Lunar MS was NOT mentioned at all(except for tohsse 3 quotes Kizyr just posted, he has ot get back to me on those
I am asking for a proof of Inclusion, where Lunar WS or Lunar MS are actually mentioned IN the quote itself.
"The terms prequel, sequel, gaiden, and side-quest have been described/explained to you, (several times now) so how can you disagree with a definition?"
Firstly , I know what a Gaiden / side-quest is now specifically thanks to people here
Secondly, the term prequel has many relative parts to it. I see a prequel as taking place before the earlier games in the series and NOT NECESSARILY HAVING a LOT (or even any) direct story links/ties to the earlier games in the series. Many OTHER rpg series do this (have very few story links with the earlier games.
People (well some at least) here see "prequel" as taking place before the earleir games in the series and REQUIRING a LOT of direct story links with the earlier games in the series. For example, people here have called Lunar Dragon Song a prequel because it has direct story links to Eternal Blue and Silver Star (Dragons, Dragonmasters, Althena, etc.)
However, I would see Lunar Dragon Song asa prequel even if it did NOT have those story links and simpyl took palce before (chronologically in the Lunar world) EB and SS.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:03 am
by DragonmasterDan
dhowerter wrote:Heh. Thank you for the effort of finding those quotes and then translating them. That was very nice of you Smile Of course, my next question is: Are any of the three people who you quoted there have anything to do with the Lunar MS development team?
That info is background information on the Lunar series provided to Japanese retailers by the publisher (in this case Marvelous Interactive and Game Arts) of the game then placed on their website in order to promote and educate those curious in purchasing Lunar Genesis. Indirectly that information comes directly from Marvelous and/or Game Arts, we know this as it has been reposted in an almost identical form to several retailers websites as shown by Kizyr. This more or less confirms that the side story status is offical from the the publishers (of Lunar Genesis) side of things. However it's technically not a direct comment from a member of the development team and quite frankly that's about as good of a confirmation as you are going to find regarding a roughly 10 year old game gear game and its slightly newer remake both released exclusively in Japan.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:41 am
by drumlord
I don't know why it just came to me now, but there is history of game companies excluding games as part of a series entirely by "proof by omission" as you put it. Konami refuses to mention the N64 Castlevania games any more. In fact, the promotional materials for Lament of Innocence said "The first 3D Castlevania."
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:42 am
by Alunissage
CDi Zeldas.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:57 am
by DragonmasterDan
Alunissage wrote:CDi Zeldas.
Those weren't made by Nintendo, oddly enough I have all three of them strictly for collectors sake
As far as the Castlevania mention goes, the N64 Castlevania's weren't terrible games (check the reviews when they came out). I'm kind of suprised Konami is doing that.
the recursive thread
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:18 pm
by localflick
I am asking for a proof of Inclusion, where Lunar WS or Lunar MS are actually mentioned IN the quote itself.
It's an obscure Japanese game that wasn't talked about much with the game creators. Odds are, if a translated source hasn't been provided to you, it doesn't exist. The people here have provided you with AMPLE materials on the subject, so if it's not there, your answer is as follows:
AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THERE IS NO MENTION OF LUNAR MAGIC, OR WALKING SCHOOL AS A SIDESTORY/SPINOFF ACCORDING TO THE REPUTABLE GAME MAKERS.
...glad we could help.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:04 am
by dhowerter
**ALL** - Heh At this point, I probably won't be posting again in this thread unless someone responds to the below:
What I'm Looking For Exactly
A quote from anyone on the Lunar MS development team (English or Japanese or a Japanese magazone scan/other printed source - Japanese will have to be translated by someone here of course) saying Lunar Walking School (game Gear) OR Lunar: Magical School (Saturn) is a "side-story", "spinoff", or "Gaiden".
NOTE: The quote must MENTION Lunar WS or Lunar MS itself.
(One last TRY to find what I'm looking for - some of you may be right; the info I want may simply NOT be out there - doesn't mean I can't ask for it tho- maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have seen it or will find it
- Please post if you plan on looking for this at ALL. (posting a simple phrase like "I'm looking" will do.
- If you look and then can't find anything , just post something like: "Couldn't find anything."
If you DO find something, please post it (and translate it if it's in Japanese).
To all of you have posted in this thread, thank you for your time and insight. To all of you who searched for what I'm looking for (or WILL search for what I'm looking for
) thank you very much for trying to help
drumlord -
I don't know why it just came to me now, but there is history of game companies excluding games as part of a series entirely by "proof by omission" as you put it. Konami refuses to mention the N64 Castlevania games any more. In fact, the promotional materials for Lament of Innocence said "The first 3D Castlevania."
That IS a very good example of publishers /marketing people within the publishers twisting the truth /making an omission (ie. lieing
in order to make the game they're currently selling (in this case, Castlevania: Lament of Innocence on ps2) appear more desireable. ("the FIRST 3D Castlevania" heh)
Thus why I wanted a quote from the developer.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:24 pm
by drumlord
Konami is the developer and publisher of Castlevania and it's not just marketing people who don't like to talk about the N64 versions. If you want a quote directly from somebody who worked on the game, you're even MORE out of luck, because it's not very often somebody who works on a game is allowed to talk about it to the press, even less so in Japan.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:14 pm
by Kizyr
Topic moved. I don't know why this was in the General section for so long; must've been an oversight.
(One last TRY to find what I'm looking for - some of you may be right; the info I want may simply NOT be out there - doesn't mean I can't ask for it tho- maybe I'll get lucky and someone will have seen it or will find it
- Please post if you plan on looking for this at ALL. (posting a simple phrase like "I'm looking" will do.
- If you look and then can't find anything , just post something like: "Couldn't find anything."
I'll post a third line: "Look for it yourself."
You were already given, quite literally, the best information on the game that's available anywhere. If it's not good enough for you, then quit asking other people to do your work and chase after your own bloody windmills. Hell I even pointed you to official sources (apparently not 'official' enough for you) and translated them; that's the best you'll find. If you can't accept that, quit reiterating your questions and quit asking others to look for you, since I'll tell you right now, you won't find any better.
...and why the hell do you keep using so many spaces? KF
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:35 am
by dhowerter
Kizyr -
I'll post a third line: "Look for it yourself.
A lot of people here said the info I want would ONLY be in Japanese online or in a Japanese gaming mag ..
As I've said before, I CAN'T read any Japanese and have no intention of learning a whole language to look for this one thing.
Therefore, I CAN'T look for it myself.
You were already given, quite literally, the best information on the game that's available anywhere. If it's not good enough for you, then quit asking other people to do your work and chase after your own bloody windmills. Hell I even pointed you to official sources (apparently not 'official' enough for you) and translated them; that's the best you'll find. If you can't accept that, quit reiterating your questions and quit asking others to look for you, since I'll tell you right now, you won't find any better.
Firstly, Have you searched every single site on the internet? AND every Japanese gaming mag?
(you said: "available ANYWHERE")
Secondly, I issued that last post to EVERYONE here, not just you.
If someone else wants to help me and TRY to find the info, that is THEIR choice, NOT yours, and it's not very nice to try and discourage them from doing so (or discourage me from asking). It doesn't hurt you in any way if someone else wants to look (or I want to ask).
If someone wants to try and look, then I say thank you to them for trying.
Also, Kizyr, if you are referring to those 3 quotes you translated for me, I did thank you for those
I did also ask tho if whoever said them was connected in any way to the developers of Lunar MS, but you never replied with an answer...
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:53 am
by localflick
...and here we go again,
it's never gonna end,
we're all so sick of this annoying post!
But seriously, Kizyr, as tempted as I'm sure you are, please don't kill dhowerter. The jail time wouldn't be worth it.
And dhowerter, for the love of all that's holy and sacred in this world, please, just give up. Although it's already been said (more than once I believe) you've been given the best info the people in this MB have available. They've been very gracious in going out of their way translating the best sources they have for what still to me seems to be a frivilous question. That's all we have. We can't scour every webpage in existence, and can't give a black & white, yes or no answer. The answer, as I've already summed up for you, is simply "probably not" but if you can't take that as your answer, repeating the question isn't going to do anything but irritate people.
If I wanted to, I could create a thread asking "Have the developers of Grandia Parallel Trippers for the Gameboy Color ever reffered to it as a side story?" and have a similar thread. But being a reasonable person, after recieving translated quotes, and every available text on the matter, even if my question wasn't answered to my satisfaction, I'd thank everyone who helped me, and end it. It's not up to them to find what I'm looking for, but I'd just be grateful they helped me in the first place.
And PLEASE stop spacing everything so much! How many people have to ask you? It's just frustrating to read!
I'm almost to the point where I want to make a fake webpage with a quote on it to end this already. I think this is one of the few threads I've just got to stop watching. Really I don't know why I'm still reading it. Anyway, it's getting late, and I should be getting out of the house around now, so I hope this had some effect, although it's probably as useless as the last 3-4 pages of posts.[/quote]
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:17 pm
by Sonic#
dhowerter, there are ways to read foreign sites without knowing the language. Go to
http://world.altavista.com, and it'll have a translator. No, it's not perfect. In fact, it's often off. But you'll get the gist of whatever's said.
Throughout this topic, I've read where you've tried to drive people to find something that they don't think exists. They tried to look anyhow. It sounds like you want nothing less than omnipotence, and that's just not possible. However, if all of them, with their vast knowledge on the series, couldn't find it, the probability is quite low that your magic quote exists in any transcribed form.
People can look for it if they wish, but they can't be expected to do so. Only a couple of people here even know Japanese. Of those couple, I doubt that any of them have the time to systematically scour everything and translate it for you. It's a mighty favor to ask, even if you're nice and terrifically gracious about it, but I've perceived no such grace, but only challenges, refutations, and pickiness. To have hard work, even unsuccessful to your wishes, treated in such a way is demoralizing. You've demoralized the most qualified lookers.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:56 pm
by GhaleonOne
Just as a side note, Kiz frequents LunarHope, which is Japan's largest Lunar site, and if he hasn't said anything from that side of things, it's likely there's nothing across sea's regarding it in quotage form on the 'net. No, noone has looked the entire internet over, but after 8 years of running this site, and the countless others here who have been around for quite some time, I'm sure someone would have come up with something if it was available. Sorry man.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:04 pm
by Kizyr
The rest of your post is the same nonsensical babbling and useless points you've repeated before. There's no point revisiting them. And believe me, I could go line by line (maybe insert fifty carriage returns to make it easier for you to read) and respond to your comments, but it'd only encourage you to repeat yourself.
dhowerter wrote:Also, Kizyr, if you are referring to those 3 quotes you translated for me, I did thank you for those
I did also ask tho if whoever said them was connected in any way to the developers of Lunar MS, but you never replied with an answer...
DM Dan answered that already. I see no need to repeat what he said. If you didn't understand him the first time, read it again. KF