Lunar: Magical School:OFFICIALLY a sidestory/spinoff or NOT?

For discussion of Magical School Lunar, for the Saturn, and its predecessor Lunar: Walking School, for the Game Gear
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GhaleonOne
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Postby GhaleonOne » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:06 am

I'll look for some quotes, since you're dead set on needing them, but really, if you know anything about the story of Magic School, you'd realize it was truley meant as a gaiden and nothing more. You'll find that people are being defensive here because of a website that actually claims Lunar: Magic School as "Lunar 3" specifically. We get someone coming in here about every other month proclaiming their "news" about how they know about Lunar 3 before anyone else, based on false information.

I'm too tired to do any looking right now. Though if you would, using the quote tags certainly would be helpful to read your posts.
-G1

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Postby localflick » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:16 am

OMG. Sorry to post again so quickly, but did the quote tags make the posts LONGER?! Wow. Also, Shiva Indis posted while I was typing my last one, and it seems kind of redundant now. Sorry.

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Postby dhowerter » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:19 am

THERE :D

Added Quote Tags to all my posts in this thread :)

(NOTE: I quote tagged what you all said, but if I quoted myself I did not tag THAT to avoid confusion)

Thanks to Shiva Indis for the how to do it info 8)



Localflick -

"Lunar Magic School is a version of Lunar Walking School for Game Gear. It's related to Lunar 1 & 2 in the sense that it takes place in the same world, but it's not a sequel, or prequel to either, so it IS a sidestory. Usually the actual games in series are directly related to each other, and sometimes there's a sidestory thrown in which isn't numbered."


Two points: 1. If it takes place in the same world (and other people have also said it does), then Lunar MS MUST take place before or after each Lunar game.

Someone told me once that Lunar MS takes place BEFORE Silver Star (and presumably after Dragon Song). Bye definition, if it takes place chronologically in the Lunar world
BEFORE Lunar EB and Silver Star, then that would make it a prequel to those games and a sequel to Dragon Song. (even if I am incorrect in my exact placement of Lunar MS on Lunar world's timeline, you get my point)


There's acutally lots of games like that with a "Gaiden" as another game in the series, but not being directly related to the games in the series. Fire Emblem Gaiden is the first that comes to mind, but storywise the Fire Emblem games seem kind of different, so it's not the best example. I'll get back to you when I think of a better one.


heh It would have been so easy if they had just named Lunar MS:
"Lunar Gaiden" instead :lol:




As for the "quote tags" bonk the little Quote button, type/paste the quote, then bonk it again to close the tag. That'll make us all a little happier.



DONE :) I Quote tagged everything in my posts.






GhaleonOne -


I'll look for some quotes, since you're dead set on needing them, but really, if you know anything about the story of Magic School, you'd realize it was truley meant as a gaiden and nothing more.



Thank you :) Also, unfortunately I don't read Japanese although I do own Lunar MS (Saturn) and have played it.


You'll find that people are being defensive here because of a website that actually claims Lunar: Magic School as "Lunar 3" specifically. We get someone coming in here about every other month proclaiming their "news" about how they know about Lunar 3 before anyone else, based on false information.


Hmm I see. as YOU PEOPLE define Lunar 3, as actually having the words: Lunar" and "3 or III" in the title, then yes, Lunar MS is NOT Lunar 3.

I think those other people refer to Lunar MS as lunar 3 simply because it IS the third ORIGINAL STORY in a Lunar game released in the real world ;). (it came out after Silver star and Eternal blue)


I'm too tired to do any looking right now. Though if you would, using the quote tags certainly would be helpful to read your posts.


Everyone seems to be requesting that. LOL :wink: Anyway I've Quote Tagged ALL my posts.



ALL - BTW, is there any way to make the larger Quote tags automatically STAY expanded when I create them? -_-

If I expand them, does everyone see them expanded (since I'm the post creator) or do only I see them expanded?

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Postby Alunissage » Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:55 am

Lunar Gaiden isn't exactly the most descriptive or interesting title, though. Magic School Lunar at least tells what it's about.

I really don't get your objection to "side-story". Side story does NOT mean unofficial, or parallel universe, or anything like that...it just means not the primary storyline. The Lunar novels are parallel-universe stories. Lunatic Parade is obviously not directly the events of EB. Magic School doesn't contradict the series and fits in fine, but is not necessary to appreciate the other games. MS It takes place chronologically before Lunar 1. This isn't quite the same as being a prequel, because if the events of MS never happened the other stories would be unchanged, while if Lunar 1 had never happened Lunar 2 would be missin most of its plot. Lunar 1 and 2 had very direct links (Nall, Ghaleon, Althena's fate), and Dragon Song has some links with the others (Dragonmasters, Althena); Magic School has none of these. Except for (I think) Vane being mentioned as in the sky, Magic School could be at any point in Lunar's history. I exaggerate slightly, since I haven't played it, but it's very self-contained. People refer to Lunar III in the meaniing of a) having a direct connection with Lunar I and/or II (as II does to I) and b) coming chronologically after II. Magic School does neither of these. Genesis is a prequel, but numbering games less than 1 doesn't usually go over so well, especially when there may be another game (about the Four Heroes) between Genesis and Lunar I. What would that Four Heroes game be, Lunar 0.5? You shouldn't read so much into Genesis's lack of number, especially since the name implies beginning.

In other words, the words prequel and sequel do not just refer to the chronological order of the installments but their relationship to each other. MS is not a sequel to Dragon Song because there's absolutely no connection betwen them. But it does come after Dragon Song. Likewise, side-story has nothing to do with chronology at all and only refers to whether the main storyline is followed.

And you can nest quote tags, like this:

Code: Select all

[quote="dhowerter"][quote="someone else"]blah blah blah[/quote]
your response to blah blah blah[/quote]


We can figure out who's saying what much better if you DON'T put all those blank lines in. Use quote tags, or single and double quotes, or asterisks, or slashes, or something of the sort to delineate who's saying what, but not two or three carriage returns.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:51 pm

Dhowerter, I'm curious to what, exactly, you're trying to prove here. What's the difference if Lunar: Magic School is labeled as a sidestory/spinoff or not? Are you trying to prove whether or not the events of that game are canon?
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Postby dhowerter » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:49 am

Alunissage -

Lunar Gaiden isn't exactly the most descriptive or interesting title, though. Magic School Lunar at least tells what it's about.


True :)


I really don't get your objection to "side-story". Side story does NOT mean unofficial, or parallel universe, or anything like that...it just means not the primary storyline. The Lunar novels are parallel-universe stories. Lunatic Parade is obviously not directly the events of EB. Magic School doesn't contradict the series and fits in fine, but is not necessary to appreciate the other games. MS It takes place chronologically before Lunar 1. This isn't quite the same as being a prequel, because if the events of MS never happened the other stories would be unchanged, while if Lunar 1 had never happened Lunar 2 would be missin most of its plot.


It's nice to know SOME people don't look down on MS -_- but most people (not necessarily on this site) DO.

However, I disagree on the part where you said that even tho Lunar MS takes place chronologically before Silver Star or EB that it's NOT a prequel. Prequels really dont have to have a set number of certain elements from the earlier released games (in this case SS and EB) in order to be prequels. Preqeuls simply have to take place in the same game world and take place chronologically in that world BEFORE the other game(s) in the series

While I see your point on Lunar 2 losing a lot of its plot if you have not played Lunar 1, that does not always hold true for other RPG series "prequels". I cant think of an example right now off the top of my head tho :) Many sequels/prequels have almost NO mention of the previously released games in the series.. that doesnt make thme Side-stories tho automatically :)


Lunar 1 and 2 had very direct links (Nall, Ghaleon, Althena's fate), and Dragon Song has some links with the others (Dragonmasters, Althena); Magic School has none of these. Except for (I think) Vane being mentioned as in the sky, Magic School could be at any point in Lunar's history. I exaggerate slightly, since I haven't played it, but it's very self-contained.


Hmm true. Although as I said above , you dont NEED certain story elements to be in a "prequel" to have it BE a "prequel" Well maybe thats my opinion anyway.



People refer to Lunar III in the meaniing of a) having a direct connection with Lunar I and/or II (as II does to I) and b) coming chronologically after II. Magic School does neither of these.



That is one defintion of "Lunar 3" ^_^ Tho like Ive said before in previous posts, if you use that defintion of Luanr 3 then I know Luanr MS is not Lunar 3 :) I just want to know if its officially a "side-story" (as sais by the developers)




Genesis is a prequel, but numbering games less than 1 doesn't usually go over so well, especially when there may be another game (about the Four Heroes) between Genesis and Lunar I. What would that Four Heroes game be, Lunar 0.5? You shouldn't read so much into Genesis's lack of number, especially since the name implies beginning.



Well yes I'd imagine they did not give Luanr DS a number because they might NOT have wanted to number it Lunar .5 heh.

Hmm, er well technically Lunar Dragon Song is a prequel to SS and EB like you said because it takes place before SS and EB,. HOWEVER, so does MS .. (as you and others have pointed out)

SO Lunar DS has no number but a subtitle, but so does Lunar MS..

Thats kinda my point.. both have no numbers and a subtitle, AND both take place BEFORE SS an EB, but only ONE (DS) is considered a prequel? o_O




In other words, the words prequel and sequel do not just refer to the chronological order of the installments but their relationship to each other. MS is not a sequel to Dragon Song because there's absolutely no connection betwen them. But it does come after Dragon Song. Likewise, side-story has nothing to do with chronology at all and only refers to whether the main storyline is followed.


Heh read above where I disgreed wtih you on what is necessary to constitute a prequel ^_^ (this same post - I beleive a prequel takes place chronologically before the other games in the series, just like you do, but Prequels don't NEED a TON of DIRECT story links to be considered a prequel; maybe we disagree on that ^_^)







Ilovemyguitar -


Dhowerter, I'm curious to what, exactly, you're trying to prove here. What's the difference if Lunar: Magic School is labeled as a sidestory/spinoff or not?


Well, I'm trying to find out if the developers (the only authority on Lunar MS's true nature) consider Lunar MS to be a "side-story", "spinoff" or "Gaiden" (thus why I asked for URLS/Links that contained this information in English, so I can read it). That's pretty much it :) Just need the proof one way or the other.

As for the REASON I need to know, well it's just bugged me for a long time now that every time someone mentions Lunar MS (usually not on this website), they almost always mention it as a "side-story" or "spinoff" in a way that is clearly (sometimes subtlely and sometimes bluntly) treats the game as if it isn't worthy to be compared to the other Lunar games, like it's automatically a inferior game and not worthy of your attention at all, simply BECAUSE it is a side-story... (like Vic Ireland of Working Designs said - I believe someone in this thread mentioned to me he had said that to justify WD NOT bringing it to the USA.-_- Exactly the kind of thing I mean)

Naturally, being a big fan of the game (even tho I cant read it ^_^), this urks me to no end..

SO I'm just trying to find out once and for all exactly what it is :)



"Are you trying to prove whether or not the events of that game are canon?"


What exactly do you mean by "canon"? :)

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Postby Kizyr » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:50 am

Ok, I'll take no pains to hide my complete irritation of your questions, pretty much because they make no sense. You're asking for information on that, from authoritative sources (like the scenario designers), and in English.

The creators speak Japanese. What, you want them to speak English just to satisfy a point you're trying to prove? Mind you, a point you can't even articulate properly in English. Any sources you'd probably consider 'valid' are going to be in Japanese, accept that fact. We have anything you need pointing you to that on LunarNET. If you don't trust our translations, then quit complaining, learn the language yourself, and read it for yourself. Otherwise, don't ask for information you know doesn't exist.

Let me break it down, to make it simpler...

1) Lunar: DS is acknowledged as the third game in the Lunar series in all advertisements and promotional material (check that here: http://www.lunar-net.com/media/magazines.php). TSS and its remakes were the first, EB and its remakes were the second. MS not being included in there means it's a side-story. There's no sense in stating it explicitly because it's obvious to begin with (not obvious just to me, but obvious in that it's the definition of a "side-story" to not be in the main line of games).

2) G1 already pointed out the same type of comments from Shigema. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your question, that comment isn't going to change.

3) Side-story doesn't mean it's not official. I still have no clue where you're getting that idea. It means it's another game, and not a major part of the Lunar series.

Lastly... "canon" means an official part of a series. KF

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Postby dhowerter » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:43 am

Kizyr -

Ok, I'll take no pains to hide my complete irritation of your questions, pretty much because they make no sense. You're asking for information on that, from authoritative sources (like the scenario designers), and in English.


:( Really not trying to irritate anybody, just trying to find out for certain..
Well yes authoritative sources (yes like the scenario designer) > NON authoritative sources for verifying something , obviously..



The creators speak Japanese. What, you want them to speak English just to satisfy a point you're trying to prove? Mind you, a point you can't even articulate properly in English. Any sources you'd probably consider 'valid' are going to be in Japanese, accept that fact. We have anything you need pointing you to that on LunarNET. If you don't trust our translations, then quit complaining, learn the language yourself, and read it for yourself. Otherwise, don't ask for information you know doesn't exist.



Hmm you are quite possibly right about the info I want being in Japanese..


However am I supposed to know if something like that is out there and what language it's in? That's WHY I'm asking -_-

If I KNEW it was out there (in ENGLISH), I probably would have found it by now :wink: I thought maybe the people here would know about more obcure sources/websites, etc that I didn't know about and so maybe THEY would have seen the info I'm looking for.. (in English)

I see a lot of people in game companies who only speak Japanese giving interviews all the time nowadays.. recently, one from Treasure and one from Nintendo's president..so is it really that unreasonable to expect the POSSIBILITY of one of those interviews (with content on Lunar MS) being translated into English somewhere on the web?

The possiblity is definitely there to find what I want at a URL in Englsih.

HOWEVER, if you all can't find anything in English, then maybe you could provide the URL for the information in JAPANESE and presumably the same person who found the info (and reads Japanese ;) can translate it for me.. That would be fine if you can't find any URLs with the info in English or you don't think they exist :D

And as I said before, I DO trust your translations :) Obviously, or I wouldn't be asking what I'm asking in the above paragraph...


Also, I'm a bit confused as to what this means:
"We have anything you need pointing you to that on LunarNET."




Let me break it down, to make it simpler...

1) Lunar: DS is acknowledged as the third game in the Lunar series in all advertisements and promotional material (check that here: http://www.lunar-net.com/media/magazines.php). TSS and its remakes were the first, EB and its remakes were the second. MS not being included in there means it's a side-story. There's no sense in stating it explicitly because it's obvious to begin with (not obvious just to me, but obvious in that it's the definition of a "side-story" to not be in the main line of games).


I'm assuming you mean USA AND Japanese promotional materials. OK, they call it the third game in the series...

So:

1. Isn't it POSSIBLE they simply forgot about MS? I mean it didnt even come to the USA.. so it would be easier to forget (also it has been 8 years since it came out)

2. Does any of the info in the promotional material for Lunar DS COME (or are quoted) directly from the developer (or anyone in the development team for MS; did any of them work on Lunar DS)? I've seen game PUBLISHERS before alter the truth via marketing and advertising just (presumably) to let it sell better. Thus why I wanted a quote from the developers from MS , not any publishers/marketing people..

2. I wish people would stop ASSUMING the "obvious" for second and provide the URLs/proof (japanese with someone here translating or english ;)

I guess what I'm saying is OMISSION of mention of Lunar MS in the Lunar main game series in promotinal info for Lunar DS is not really proof...




2) G1 already pointed out the same type of comments from Shigema. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat your question, that comment isn't going to change.


Yes I know, I replied to that quote like twice now -_- That quote is about "Lunar 3" NOT MS.

Read this(I'm quoting myself);

"Also, like I seem to be saying a lot in here Lunar Dragon Song is considered a prequel and not a side-story. Thus a Lunar RPG that is NOT a side-story CAN have NO number in its title. Thus any discussion of "Lunar 3" is irrelelvant in proving whether or not Lunar MS is a "official" "side story" or NOT because it would be possible for Lunar MS to NOT be a side story AND not have a number in its title."

See? Shigema not acknowledging Lunar MS as "Lunar 3" is fine with me (or him NUMBERING "Lunar 3" with a THREE is also fine with me), because you can have a NON side-story Lunar RPG with no number in the title (example: Lunar: Dragon Song)." (as you kizyr just pointed out, that Lunar DS is in the main series)

Therefore, that particular quote is irrelevant for determining MS's place (or not) in the main series of Lunar games.





3) Side-story doesn't mean it's not official. I still have no clue where you're getting that idea. It means it's another game, and not a major part of the Lunar series.


It's nice to see you have that attitude tho not all share it unfortunately..many (not necessarily here) treat MS as a inferior game simply because they know it is a side-story..

BTW if you really want to know why I need to know this please read my last post in the section addressed to the user "Ilovemyguitar".

Lastly... "canon" means an official part of a series. KF


OK , I see :)

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Postby Kizyr » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:10 am

I see a lot of people in game companies who only speak Japanese giving interviews all the time nowadays.. recently, one from Treasure and one from Nintendo's president..so is it really that unreasonable to expect the POSSIBILITY of one of those interviews (with content on Lunar MS) being translated into English somewhere on the web?


That's why I'm pointing you to translations. Everything that G1 and myself have been pointing you to have been translations. They're translated from Japanese into English. So, they're in English.

I don't know how I can put that any simpler, and I don't know why you haven't picked up on that already, unless you're simply ignoring what we're telling you.

I'm assuming you mean USA AND Japanese promotional materials. OK, they call it the third game in the series...


I don't, I mean the Japanese promotional materials. Links to three magazine articles are in the link that I gave you; had you checked the source I was giving, you'd know that much.

To answer your next few questions... 1) No, they didn't simply "forget" about MS, since we're talking about Japanese materials, not US. 2) Nearly all the information to promote the game comes from the game companies themselves. LunarNET received much of the same material many of the Japanese magazines did, except for most of the screenshots and the like.

2. I wish people would stop ASSUMING the "obvious" for second and provide the URLs/proof (japanese with someone here translating or english


I did provide the bloody link. Here it is again:
http://www.lunar-net.com/media/magazines.php

And here's a link to what G1 provided:
http://www.lunar-net.com/interviews/lunaripii2.php

See? Shigema not acknowledging Lunar MS as "Lunar 3" is fine with me (or him NUMBERING "Lunar 3" with a THREE is also fine with me), because you can have a NON side-story Lunar RPG with no number in the title (example: Lunar: Dragon Song)." (as you kizyr just pointed out, that Lunar DS is in the main series)


That doesn't change the fact that you ignored my point about DS being included in the main line of games, while MS is not. What Shigema said is relevant because of the fact that he doesn't bring up MS when discussing the main line of Lunar games, not because he doesn't label it as Lunar 3. That the magazines do the same reconciles their stance with that of the storyboard writer for all Lunar games.

I get your point about how a number is irrelevant, and it is. The point is whether or not the games are brought up in discussing the main line of Lunar games (TSS, EB, and now DS). That they're not means the games fit the definition of a side-story.

It's nice to see you have that attitude tho not all share it unfortunately..many (not necessarily here) treat MS as a inferior game simply because they know it is a side-story..


I didn't say it's not an inferior game. I said it's not "unofficial"--it's hard to deny that considering it was Game Arts and Studio Alex behind it. There's a difference. And if that's your problem, you're wasting your time looking for any of the staff on WS/MS telling you in English that it's a side-story. You're trying to just prove that the game is good. KF

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Postby GhaleonOne » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:11 am

Studio Alex wasn't behind WS/MS as far as I know. I <i>know</i> it wasn't behind Magic School, but I assume it wasn't behind WS. You'd know more on that end though.

Just a side note, other than Vic dropping hints of Lunar III for years, ALL related interviews, magazine comments, comments from developers, etc. have been from Japan. Vic is the only "official" source in the US over the years that has made comments regarding new Lunar games and series. And yes, he has been the source of many Lunar III rumors (which privately I can say he was on target with, as Lunar III HAS been in development in more than one occassion). Just to break everything down:

1) Lunar: Magic School is generally regarded as a side story to the series. It took place a few hundred years prior to Lunar 1. I do not have a link for an official quote on that, but I believe it was just implied in the text of the game for those that understood the Japanese.

2) Lunar 1 and 2 are as official as they come, noone argues that.

3) Lunar: WS, MS Lunar, and Lunar: DS are all official games as well.

4) Lunar: DS is a prequel. It did not get titled "Lunar III" and in fact was titled "Lunar: Genesis", which suggests a Lunar 0 type game. It is a third game in the main series, according to Japanese sources (mainly magazines, but also mentioned by Mitsuru Takahashi in Nintendo Power and Play Magazines - July and September issues respectively).

5) In the NP interview, Takahashi stated that a Four Heroes game is likely, and Lunar III itself (called "a sequel to Eternal Blue") is fully possible as well. You can find alluding to that on Takahashi's blog. http://lunardragonsong.1up.com

Also, I just did some credit checking. Takahashi wasn't part of the Studio Alex team or any of the folks responsible for the Sega CD Lunar's. He was important to the <i>remakes</i>, but the more and more I double check credits between games, I'm really beginning to think the majority of the folks behind Lunar DS were behind the remakes and <i>not</i> the originals.
-G1

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Postby ZP » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:01 am

Wow at this thread. Really.

Dhowerter, the World Wide Web can not be expected to work as a complete encyclopedia of everything, ever! Back in the mid-90s when the two versions of Magical School were made, gaming news websites were far smaller, less commercial, and less numerous. The printed word (that is to say, magazines) was still where the majority of video game news could be found, and this chapter of Lunar would only have been covered by the Japanese mags.

Game Arts' own website has been rebuilt from scratch several times in the years that have gone by. So have the pages of Working Designs and UbiSoft. Many news sites have vanished. Any direct, unaltered developer quotes about Lunar from the era of the Game Gear and Saturn releases of Magical School are unlikely to exist at all, and if they do they'll be harder to find than a needle in an entire field of haystacks because of the rate at which the WWW has grown.

Instead, just look at it this way. MS Lunar has a simpler battle system than Lunar 1 and 2. The story is restricted to one island, rather than the whole world. All the main playable characters are children. All events are inconsequential. There are no Dragonmasters. No real inventory. No anime cut-scenes. No speech. The titles 'Magical School' or 'Strolling School' aren't dramatic at all, and weren't written in English. Most telling of all - it was something of a tradition to put side-stories onto the Game Gear! It happened with Shining Force and Phantasy Star also. Nobody really expects handheld games to be full sequels to titles originally on much more powerful hardware. For this reason alone I doubt that the question 'is Strolling School the same as Lunar 3?' really needed to be asked, either at the time or now.

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Postby DragonmasterDan » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:21 am

dhowerter I think you are missing what a lot of people are saying, the idea of of a gaiden is any game that isn't a sequel or prequel. Lunar Magical School/Walking School is a gaiden in that sense. Is it an insult to the game, no but it's not a direct sequel or prequel.

Lunar: Dragon Song is a prequel, its events expilicitly lead up to those in Lunar: The Silver Star and beyond. While based on outside information a time period can be derived for Lunar Magical School/Walking School it is neither a sequel nor a prequel thus making it a side story. Final Fantasy Tactics is a gaiden to the Final Fantasy Series,

And as far as what you are asking for its pretty simple, the game Lunar Walking School/Magical School was originally a game gear title and saw very little publicity at its release and the same goes for its remake on the Saturn. The game wsa also released over 10 years ago (and 8 years ago for the remake) Even if any interviews were conducted regarding it, the game was released solely in Japan so any interviews with the developers that may have been done so many years ago would have been soley in Japanese. As ZP stated, the internet isn't an enclyopedia of every interview ever created in every language. And since the game was not a main chapter in the series if an interview such as this were conducted it's highly unlikely anyone would have asked the question "Is this a gaiden" since its quite obvious that its not a main chapter in the series (and this is not a matter of opinion, if it were a main chapter it would have a number by it or clearly be designated as a prequel, it's not). Since the game was a minor release I am not aware of any interviews with the creative staff behind the main Lunar games that asks "Is this game a gaiden". Looking for an official quote translated from Japanese to English from the developer of a 10 year old game gear title released soley in Japan about its status in the series is not something you are going to find. What we have provided you with is basic information stating that the game is a gaiden bu the standard definition. If you want anything more than that you're not going to find it. Calling it a gaiden or a side story isn't an insult (for example FInal Fantsay Tactics is better than most normal Final Fantasy games), it's just stating that the game isn't a primary chapter in the series.

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Postby Kizyr » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:57 pm

GhaleonOne wrote:Studio Alex wasn't behind WS/MS as far as I know. I <i>know</i> it wasn't behind Magic School, but I assume it wasn't behind WS. You'd know more on that end though.


I double-checked the credits section of my WS walkthrough before posting that:

ImageImage
Scenario Writers:
Yuu Sugitani (also wrote the Lunar: MS novel)
Takamasa Okazaki
Studio Alex

DragonmasterDan wrote:Lunar: Dragon Song is a prequel, its events expilicitly lead up to those in Lunar: The Silver Star and beyond. While based on outside information a time period can be derived for Lunar Magical School/Walking School it is neither a sequel nor a prequel thus making it a side story.


Right... Unless you check the background notes for the novel, there's not much evidence on the general time period for Lunar: MS. That's the only place I've seen that states it explicitly. KF

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Postby GhaleonOne » Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:00 pm

Gotcha. The main thing was on MS though. I would assume, since it was released around the time of Lunar 1 and 2's remakes, that it would just have the "Original Story by Studio Alex". Studio Alex was gone by the time of the remakes, which is why I made that comment.
-G1

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Postby dhowerter » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:14 am

Kizyr -

I did provide the bloody link. Here it is again:
http://www.lunar-net.com/media/magazines.php


I read the 3 interviews : Nintendo Dream part 2 didn't really mention anything of importance but I did notice THIS from the Famitsu interview:


"After 11 years, the newest addition to the Lunar series is on the Nintendo DS!"

I said I trusted your translations, so..

I'm assuming they're talking about the Japanese release of Lunar EB (Sega CD) there, however, that is wrong. You may or may not consider Lunar MS / Lunar Walking School a Side story, but certainly you consider it an "the newest addition to the Lunar series", right? (BEFORE Dragon Song /Genesis came out obviously :)

If they had included Lunar MS in that it would have been 8 years (if talking about Lunar MS) , and 10 years (if talking about Lunar WS - GG) not 11. (MS came out in 1997and WS in 1995, yes?) That was the main part of the articel that has anything to do with Lunar MS..



Next we go to Nintendo Dream part 1 interview, which says:

"After thirteen years, the newest part of the series is now here!"

Not sure how they got 13 years ^_^ but see my comments for the Famitsu quote. Same thing here. The only part again that hasanything ot do with Lunar MS possibly being a side-story and they get it wrong
(unless I'm missing something here)



And here's a link to what G1 provided:
http://www.lunar-net.com/interviews/lunaripii2.php


Already replied to that in my last post (the quote about Lunar III)



dhowerter:
"See? Shigema not acknowledging Lunar MS as "Lunar 3" is fine with me (or him NUMBERING "Lunar 3" with a THREE is also fine with me), because you can have a NON side-story Lunar RPG with no number in the title (example: Lunar: Dragon Song)." (as you kizyr just pointed out, that Lunar DS is in the main series)"

Kizyr:
That doesn't change the fact that you ignored my point about DS being included in the main line of games, while MS is not. What Shigema said is relevant because of the fact that he doesn't bring up MS when discussing the main line of Lunar games, not because he doesn't label it as Lunar 3. That the magazines do the same reconciles their stance with that of the storyboard writer for all Lunar games.


I didn't ignore you saying Lunar DS was in the main series. I agreed on that :) However, having no number, but a subtitle in the title did not RULE OUT MS as a main game in the series (**by itself**) because we already have one Lunar rpg like that you have said is in the main series (Lunar Dragon Song).

Well, I think at this point that a "proof" of omission (Lunar MS was NOT mentioned but it suposedly proves something" will not satisfy me. Sorry.
It would be nice if the URL/Link/web page (japanese translated by anybody here or English) actaully mentions Lunar MS..-_-

BTW tho, I don't think Lunar WALKING School (Game Gear) was OUT in Japan when that artbook whose quote we are talking about was released.

From Alunissage, this thread:

"Oh, and I have a date of 1/6/95 for when the artbook was published, courtesy the Lunar Goods Archive. I believe Walking School came out that same year."

Me: (also in this thread)

"Hmm actually Gamefaqs has Lunar Walking School (GG) coming out in Japan on 1/12/96 a YEAR after the interview"

So if Lunar Walking School (the first "Magic School" game) had not come OUT yet until a YEAR **AFTER** the artbook came out, maybe that's why he did not mention it in the interview, because it didn't exist yet :D



I get your point about how a number is irrelevant, and it is. The point is whether or not the games are brought up in discussing the main line of Lunar games (TSS, EB, and now DS). That they're not means the games fit the definition of a side-story.


Good, glad we agree on something ^_^

As I mentioned above, at this point, a proof of omission (where Lunar MS is not mentioned at all) will really not satisfy my desire for proof. Sorry but its just too inconclusive... Really looking for ironclad proof here..




dhowerter:
"It's nice to see you have that attitude tho not all share it unfortunately..many (not necessarily here) treat MS as a inferior game simply because they know it is a side-story.. "

Kizyr:
"I didn't say it's not an inferior game. I said it's not "unofficial"--it's hard to deny that considering it was Game Arts and Studio Alex behind it. There's a difference. And if that's your problem, you're wasting your time looking for any of the staff on WS/MS telling you in English that it's a side-story. You're trying to just prove that the game is good. KF"


Game Arts and Studio Alex were behind it?? Cool, didn't know that Hmm I thought Kadokawa Shoten did it.. (forgive my spelling if I spelled that wrong lol)

Would you mind providing a link/url for that? (that Gamearts/Studio ALex made MS) - you said it's hard to deny.. hopefully that means a link would be easy to provide

er BTW, as I said in my last post (more than once I think) I WILL now take a Japanese web page URLs/links as long as whoever finds the page (and presumably can read Japanese) translates it for me (and provides the link).

SO yes English links = fine and Japanese links with someone here translating it = fine :D
[/quote]







GhaleonOne -


Just a side note, other than Vic dropping hints of Lunar III for years, ALL related interviews, magazine comments, comments from developers, etc. have been from Japan. Vic is the only "official" source in the US over the years that has made comments regarding new Lunar games and series. And yes, he has been the source of many Lunar III rumors (which privately I can say he was on target with, as Lunar III HAS been in development in more than one occassion). Just to break everything down:


I see :) Japanese URLs/web sites with someone here translating will be just fine then. :D



1) Lunar: Magic School is generally regarded as a side story to the series. It took place a few hundred years prior to Lunar 1. I do not have a link for an official quote on that, but I believe it was just implied in the text of the game for those that understood the Japanese.


Heh. Interesting on its date there..obviously I can't read the text of the game tho.



2) Lunar 1 and 2 are as official as they come, noone argues that.

3) Lunar: WS, MS Lunar, and Lunar: DS are all official games as well.

4) Lunar: DS is a prequel. It did not get titled "Lunar III" and in fact was titled "Lunar: Genesis", which suggests a Lunar 0 type game. It is a third game in the main series, according to Japanese sources (mainly magazines, but also mentioned by Mitsuru Takahashi in Nintendo Power and Play Magazines - July and September issues respectively).


I agree with all that :)


5) In the NP interview, Takahashi stated that a Four Heroes game is likely, and Lunar III itself (called "a sequel to Eternal Blue") is fully possible as well. You can find alluding to that on Takahashi's blog. http://lunardragonsong.1up.com


Heh. I'm a longtime subscriber to Nintendo Power, so which NP interview are we talking about here? ( I probably have the issue)
- Which Month /year (and page number too if you can)?








ZP -


Dhowerter, the World Wide Web can not be expected to work as a complete encyclopedia of everything, ever! Back in the mid-90s when the two versions of Magical School were made, gaming news websites were far smaller, less commercial, and less numerous. The printed word (that is to say, magazines) was still where the majority of video game news could be found, and this chapter of Lunar would only have been covered by the Japanese mags.


Heh I often forget the internet is finite. It just SEEMS endless :)

Ok then, anyone here can provide a proof of inclusion (Lunar MS is actually mentioned) about it being a side-story or not from the developers
on a English web site, a Japanese web site with someone here translating, OR a scan of a Japanese magazine / other printed source (again, with someone here translating - not the whole page, just the important part ^_^)


Game Arts' own website has been rebuilt from scratch several times in the years that have gone by. So have the pages of Working Designs and UbiSoft. Many news sites have vanished. Any direct, unaltered developer quotes about Lunar from the era of the Game Gear and Saturn releases of Magical School are unlikely to exist at all, and if they do they'll be harder to find than a needle in an entire field of haystacks because of the rate at which the WWW has grown.


I see -_- Very unfortunate.. Does this mean none of you are actually wiling to go and look for the URLs in the first place or a scan from a Japanese mag of the time? :(

(unless of course you happen to have the actual Japanese mag yourself..and can read it :wink: )



Instead, just look at it this way. MS Lunar has a simpler battle system than Lunar 1 and 2. The story is restricted to one island, rather than the whole world. All the main playable characters are children. All events are inconsequential. There are no Dragonmasters. No real inventory. No anime cut-scenes. No speech. The titles 'Magical School' or 'Strolling School' aren't dramatic at all, and weren't written in English. Most telling of all - it was something of a tradition to put side-stories onto the Game Gear! It happened with Shining Force and Phantasy Star also. Nobody really expects handheld games to be full sequels to titles originally on much more powerful hardware. For this reason alone I doubt that the question 'is Strolling School the same as Lunar 3?' really needed to be asked, either at the time or now.


Simpler battle system - true well kinda.. MS doesnt have normal items or weapons/armor. it DOES have something tho the other Lunar games don't have tho.. Combination Spells.

Actually, several of the Chapters in Lunar MS take place OFF the Magic School Island i.e. other parts of the world.

A lot the main characters (esepcially in Silver Star, but also in EB ) were children as well... (children = 17 or under)

There ARE about 20-30 minutes of anime cutscenes in MS (with voice acting)

lol Who says you needa dramatic title to be a main part of the series? ^_^
(The Silver Star isn't exactly dramatic either, it simply refers to a specific place, just like Magical School does)

I know Lunar 3 is NOT MS

As for none of the main series of Lunar games being on a handheld, multiple people in this thread have said that Lunar: Dragon Song (on DS which is a handheld) is a part of the main series and NOT a side story.
Last edited by dhowerter on Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kizyr » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:44 am

I'm assuming they're talking about the Japanese release of Lunar EB (Sega CD) there, however, that is wrong. You may or may not consider Lunar MS / Lunar Walking School a Side story, but certainly you consider it an "the newest addition to the Lunar series", right? (BEFORE Dragon Song /Genesis came out obviously. If they had included Lunar MS in that it would have been 8 years (if talking about Lunar MS) , and 10 years (if talking about Lunar WS - GG) not 11. (MS came out in 1997and WS in 1995, yes?) That was the main part of the articel that has anything to do with Lunar MS..


Do you know what circular reasoning is?

You're proof here that MS is in the main line of games depends on me assuming that MS is in the main line of games to begin with. You're assuming to begin with that MS is not a side-story, therefore you say that the article is wrong.

That's not proof. That's assumption and saying the article is incorrect based on the point you don't have any proof for to begin with. Same deal with the Nintendo Dream article.

They don't include MS, hence they say 11 years since the last Lunar installment.

I didn't ignore you saying Lunar DS was in the main series. I agreed on that Smile However, having no number, but a subtitle in the title did not RULE OUT MS as a main game in the series (**by itself**) because we already have one Lunar rpg like that you have said is in the main series (Lunar Dragon Song).


You're the only one here who cares about the subtitles and numbering. That's entirely irrelevant at this point.

As I mentioned above, at this point, a proof of omission (where Lunar MS is not mentioned at all) will really not satisfy my desire for proof. Sorry but its just too inconclusive... Really looking for ironclad proof here..


Fine then. You're looking for something that doesn't exist, so I won't be bothered to look for you.

Certain things are obvious enough to where no direct comments are needed. A comment from Shigema or anyone else saying "Lunar: MS is a side-story" won't exist because it is one by implication. If that's too inconclusive for you, you're on your own.

Would you mind providing a link/url for that? (that Gamearts/Studio ALex made MS) - you said it's hard to deny.. hopefully that means a link would be easy to provide


For Lunar: Walking School, check the credits portion of my Lunar: WS guide (http://www.lunar-net.com/lunarws/credits.html). The 1997 copyright for MS is still kept by GameArts; I don't have the full credits for those with me, but, like the remakes for SSS, they were done under Kadokawa Shoten. KF

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Postby Kizyr » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:14 am

I dunno why I'm still bothering, but if this will help satisfy your curiousity, this is about the best you're going to find at this point. Following are spot translations (i.e., no editing), 'cause I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this.

Tsutaya Online (game store):
http://www.tsutaya.co.jp/item/game/view ... d=30019140

(Intro to Lunar Series) 1992年メガCDで発売され人気を博したシリーズ1作目『ルナザ・シルバースター』、1994年に発売された2作目『ルナ2 エターナルブルー』、そして外伝『魔法学園ルナ』『ルナさんぽする学園』の発売、さらに小説やコミック、映画と「ルナ」旋風を巻き起こし続けた“ルナ”のシリーズ第3弾が11年ぶりに登場!DSで新たに紡がれる“ルナ”の物語とは…?!

"The first Lunar story, 'Lunar: The Silver Star' was sold and gained popularity on the Mega CD in 1992. In 1994 was the second game, 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue'. And then the side-story, 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar Walking School' was released, also as a novel, comic, and as a movie. Now the Lunar series continues with a third part after 11 years! A new story is told on the Nintendo DS...?!"

Yodobashi.com (store):
http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/39760327.html

1992年、MEGA-CDにて登場した「ルナザ・シルバースター」。美しいアニメーション、魅力的なキャラクター、そして何よりその暖かく優しい物語が話題を呼び、多くのユーザーに人気を博しました。そして1994年には待望の2作目「ルナ2 エターナルブルー」が発売、セガサターン、プレイステーション、GBA、PCと様々なプラットホームへの移植、外伝「魔法学園ルナ」「ルナさんぽする学園」の発売、さらに小説やコミック、映画と「ルナ」旋風を巻き起こしました。

"In 1992 was 'Lunar: The Silver Star' on the Mega CD. With beautiful animation, wonderful characters, and an amazing story, it gained much popularity. Then in 1994 was released the awaited second part, 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue'. It was ported to the Saturn, Playstation, GBA, and PC platforms. Then the side-story 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar: Walking School' was released, likewise a novel, comic, and movie."

Murauchi.com (store):
http://www.murauchi.com/MCJ-front-web/C ... 000669501/

「LUNAR」シリーズが、ついにDSに登場します。DSならではのダブルスクリーン、タッチパネル機能をフル活用した、新たな「ルナ」の世界がを楽しんでください!!
●キャラクター監修&イラストデザインは、これまでのシリーズ同様、窪岡俊之氏が担当。旧作のファンも安心して新たな「ルナ」の世界を楽しむ事が出来ます!!
●「ルナ ザ・シルバースター」、「ルナ2エターナルブルー」、外伝である、「魔法学園ルナ」、「ルナ さんぽする学園」に続くシリーズ第3作目として位置付けられる、完全オリジナルストーリーで登場です!!

"The Lunar series has come to the DS. It makes full use of the DS's dual-screen and touch panel. Enjoy the newest part of the Lunar world!!
- Character Supervision and Art Design is by the same person who has done the Lunar series until now, Toshiyuki Kubooka. So fans of the original should feel at east that they can enjoy this new Lunar world!!
- This comes as the third part of the series, and an entirely new story, succeeding 'Lunar: The Silver Star', 'Lunar 2: Eternal Blue', and the side-story, 'Magical School Lunar' / 'Lunar: Walking School'."

I'm just running through and translating the meaning, so it's a bit off. Honestly, this is the best you'll find after all these years. If it's not enough, meh, remain unconvinced. Doesn't affect me any. KF

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Postby DragonmasterDan » Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:45 am

Just worth noting Walking School was definitely released in 95 not 96. The box, manual and title screen clearly indicate that. The date listed by GameFaqs is incorrect.

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Postby dhowerter » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:32 am

ALL -

BTW, if you're going to look for the link/URL/magazine scan I want, it CAN refer to WALKING SCHOOL (Game Gear) or Magical School (Saturn), since they are more or less the same story and I presume that if ONE is a side-story , so is the other one.





Dragonmaster Dan -

I think you are missing what a lot of people are saying, the idea of of a gaiden is any game that isn't a sequel or prequel. Lunar Magical School/Walking School is a gaiden in that sense. Is it an insult to the game, no but it's not a direct sequel or prequel.


"Lunar: Dragon Song is a prequel, its events expilicitly lead up to those in Lunar: The Silver Star and beyond. While based on outside information a time period can be derived for Lunar Magical School/Walking School it is neither a sequel nor a prequel thus making it a side story. Final Fantasy Tactics is a gaiden to the Final Fantasy Series.

And as far as what you are asking for its pretty simple, the game Lunar Walking School/Magical School was originally a game gear title and saw very little publicity at its release and the same goes for its remake on the Saturn. The game wsa also released over 10 years ago (and 8 years ago for the remake) Even if any interviews were conducted regarding it, the game was released solely in Japan so any interviews with the developers that may have been done so many years ago would have been soley in Japanese. As ZP stated, the internet isn't an enclyopedia of every interview ever created in every language."


I understand what you mean. Tho for me a "prequel" as I have said before does NOT need any certain number of direct story links with the earlier games (Silver star and Eternal Blue) to be considered a prequel. I've seen other rpg prequels (not in the Lunar series) that barely mention anything in the previous game. We jsut disagree on that point :)




And since the game was not a main chapter in the series if an interview such as this were conducted it's highly unlikely anyone would have asked the question "Is this a gaiden" since its quite obvious that its not a main chapter in the series (and this is not a matter of opinion, if it were a main chapter it would have a number by it or clearly be designated as a prequel, it's not). Since the game was a minor release I am not aware of any interviews with the creative staff behind the main Lunar games that asks "Is this game a gaiden". Looking for an official quote translated from Japanese to English from the developer of a 10 year old game gear title released soley in Japan about its status in the series is not something you are going to find. What we have provided you with is basic information stating that the game is a gaiden bu the standard definition. If you want anything more than that you're not going to find it. Calling it a gaiden or a side story isn't an insult (for example FInal Fantsay Tactics is better than most normal Final Fantasy games), it's just stating that the game isn't a primary chapter in the series.



Two things: 1. A Lunar RPG in the main series (NOT a Gaiden/Side-story) theoretically can have NO number in the title (example: Lunar: Dragon Song - game which several people in this thread have said is parto f the main series)

2. About everything else you said ;) :
I see. So you're convinced there is NO chance whatsoever of finding what I'm looking for? (BTW I've said in previous posts that you can provide what I'm looking for as a English web site, a Japanese web site (with the person who provided it or someone here translating the important part), OR a scan of a Japanese magazine with the info (and soemone here or the poster translating the important part).

So even with all those options, you still see NO chance whatsoever of finding what I'm looking for?







Kizyr -

dhowerter:
I'm assuming they're talking about the Japanese release of Lunar EB (Sega CD) there, however, that is wrong. You may or may not consider Lunar MS / Lunar Walking School a Side story, but certainly you consider it an "the newest addition to the Lunar series", right? (BEFORE Dragon Song /Genesis came out obviously. If they had included Lunar MS in that it would have been 8 years (if talking about Lunar MS) , and 10 years (if talking about Lunar WS - GG) not 11. (MS came out in 1997and WS in 1995, yes?) That was the main part of the articel that has anything to do with Lunar MS..

Kizyr:
Do you know what circular reasoning is?

You're proof here that MS is in the main line of games depends on me assuming that MS is in the main line of games to begin with. You're assuming to begin with that MS is not a side-story, therefore you say that the article is wrong.

That's not proof. That's assumption and saying the article is incorrect based on the point you don't have any proof for to begin with. Same deal with the Nintendo Dream article.

They don't include MS, hence they say 11 years since the last Lunar installment.


I never said it was proof. Why would I be here asking for links/magazine scans, etc. if I already had proof :) ?

Also, you misunderstood me I never assumed you thought Luanr MS was part of the main series.

I think you're confusing "Lunar MS IS not a side-story/Gaiden" (I did not say that, I dont know that for sure yet, thus why I'm asking for links/magazine scans). I've said a couple of times it was POSSIBLE tho (at least until someone provides the URL/links to indicate otherwise).

What I DID say was that Lunar MS was not included in that statement of his and SHOULD have been **NOT** because its a side-story but because it IS (in their words): "the newest addition to the Lunar series".
It IS at least the newest addition to the Lunar series (before Dragon SOng and *NOT THE MAIN GAME SERIES*, just the overall series ;)
A side-story is part of the series, just not the MAIN series of games.



dhowerter:

"As I mentioned above, at this point, a proof of omission (where Lunar MS is not mentioned at all) will really not satisfy my desire for proof. Sorry but its just too inconclusive... Really looking for ironclad proof here.. "

Kizyr:
"Fine then. You're looking for something that doesn't exist, so I won't be bothered to look for you.

Certain things are obvious enough to where no direct comments are needed. A comment from Shigema or anyone else saying "Lunar: MS is a side-story" won't exist because it is one by implication. If that's too inconclusive for you, you're on your own."



I see what you're saying. It's really too bad you think it doesn't exist.. very unfortunate (for me). :-(




dhowerter:
"Would you mind providing a link/url for that? (that Gamearts/Studio ALex made MS) - you said it's hard to deny.. hopefully that means a link would be easy to provide"

Kizyr:
"For Lunar: Walking School, check the credits portion of my Lunar: WS guide (http://www.lunar-net.com/lunarws/credits.html). The 1997 copyright for MS is still kept by GameArts; I don't have the full credits for those with me, but, like the remakes for SSS, they were done under Kadokawa Shoten. KF"



Ah. Thanks for the link (and for translating the credits), very nice ending scenes too. :D
Last edited by dhowerter on Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby drumlord » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:51 am

I'm not even sure WHY you're bothering to look for anything. After everything you've read here, you are not satisfied? If somebody says that it IS part of the main series, will you drop it? :P

You are talking about a decade old game. And not just that, but one made in Japan. The information you've gotten from Lunar-NET members is honestly phenomenal. There are games that old that you can't get much information beyond the title and a few screenshots. And we're talking about a Japanese game here. There are a plethora of Japanese Saturn games you'd have a tough time finding information on. Be content with what you've gotten here because it's as close as you are going to get to a yes or no to your answer.
-Rich-


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