What exactly is Lucia?

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:18 pm

I know I'm jumping in on this topic kind of late, but I can never tell what topics are new and old without looking at the date because my Jessicas no longer are animated when I sign in so I didn't see this till later but I have a few things to say...

I got the impression that Lucia was indeed a goddess (though a lesser diety kind of how Angelalex described it) and actually played a pretty prominent role on The Blue Star before Lunar was born. One theory I had going was that Althena is like the mother god of all gods in the universe, she creates worlds and sometimes lesser god/godesses (Lucia) to rule over her creations. Meaning, Lucia was the original goddess of The Blue Star...the govenor or King if you will who acknowledges the pressence of a higher being (Althena). Zophar, then, would be her "evil twin" so to speak and when he manifested himself upon the Blue Star to destroy it Althena had to step in. To destroy Zophar, Althena had to destroy the Blue Star so Althena told Lucia that she would protect the people Lucia governed over, take them to a safe place (Lunar) and watch over them until Lucia would reawaken and by her power (Lucia's) over thousands of years the Blue Star would be inhabitable again.

I also believe that when Althena becomes Luna and gives up her goddess status, I DON'T believe that Althena is gone forever, just her manifested form as a goddess. Her essance is still in the universe and on Lunar, creating and all that jazz.

ilovemyguitar · Post by **ilovemyguitar** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:33 am

MiaOne wrote:I also believe that when Althena becomes Luna and gives up her goddess status, I DON'T believe that Althena is gone forever, just her manifested form as a goddess. Her essance is still in the universe and on Lunar, creating and all that jazz.

I wholeheartedly concur. There must have been something left of Althena after Luna's death, floating around in the ethere somewhere, because Lucia was able to summon her power, nearly 1000 years after Luna's passing.

DaWrestla · Post by **DaWrestla** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:16 pm

Hmmm....that is a good point. I wonder if a Lunar 3 would show a tag team of Luna\Althena and Lucia. Or maybe a threat worse than Zophar that would involve Lucia figuring their only hope is to somehow find Althena.

As long as Lunar 3 does something different, which I felt Lunar 2 managed to do with Lunar 1 (and DS failed to do).

celestiallight · Post by **celestiallight** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:49 pm

Lucia is different to Luna, she looks a little like Goddess Althena...

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:09 pm

Bah, I'll settle this once and for all.

Lucia is a character based on the idea's of several people who helped design and develope her. As a result, Lucia is exactly this based off of this question and answer:

Q. What exactly is Lucia?
A. A string of programming, pixels, and art combined to make a game sprite/character.
Q. Noooooo! Say it isn't true! You're lieing!
A. Look deep within your soul, you know it to be true.
A. Join me, and together we will the universe as direct answers!
Q. I will never join you, never!

Post by **Shiva Indis** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:25 am

Here's how I settled this issue for myself: The game does not discuss Lucia's nature where divinity or lack thereof is concerned. I can speculate as much as want, but I would do well to remember that it's nothing more than speculation.

Some people that have contributed to the series (novel author Hosoe Hiromi and manga artist Naruse Kaori) say unequivocally in their stories that Lucia is a goddess. Hosoe even says that Lucia is Althena's equivalent. But neither of these ladies worked on the game. The game leaves it ambiguous.

Post by **Kizyr** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:43 am

I still maintain that the EB novels, while their plot isn't canon, the background details they give are. So, in that respect, Lucia is a goddess. Though, empirically, she can't be equal to Althena--that might be because she's simply weaker, or because the Blue Star itself is now weaker than Lunar. KF

Anordin · Post by **Anordin** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:57 am

I like the idea of Lucia being "human", if only for the fact that she spends most of her life sleeping in that crystal. That crystal, seems to me, a method of prolonging Lucia's life and maybe her powers. If she was a full-fledged goddess, wouldn't she just be and not need to sleep? But I suppose since the Blue Star was messed up some measures would be needed to protect a divinity...maybe. (Would divine beings need protection?)

Besides if Lucia was something other than human, what's Hiro doing up there with her? And Phyco, I know there's still good imagination left in you. You can turn back to the good imagination side.

Post by **Alunissage** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:24 am

I'd agree with the reasoning except for a few things...

- We don't know if Althena needed preservation of any sort. What WAS she doing when she was in her tower? So that in itself may not be a deciding factor in whether or not Lucia is of the same nature.

- The dragons recognize her (IIRC), as does the Phantom Sentry in EB. But the dragons won't even be the original ones (since in both main versions of Lunar 1 they all die except Nall). So they wouldn't have encountered her previously. This suggests to me that there's something inherent in her that makes her special rather than that she's a human doing a special job. Ruby, although not possessing this recognition, says she looks like she could be some sort of goddess or something.

Actually, and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this that I recall, I suppose a possibility could be that Lucia is half human. She could be a crossbreed. I don't think that's the case, but it might account for some things. One of the interviews says that she is almost a sister to Althena, or words to that effect. I speculated at one point that the Vile Tribe could have some blood of Althena's race in them (I had other background to go with this) and that would work with Lucia saying the seal at the top of the Mystic Ruins could only be done by Althena, Ghaleon, or herself.

Incidentally, early drafts of EB had two crystals in Lucia's tower, one empty...the implication being that's where Althena was supposed to be.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:58 pm

What's Hiro doing up there with a full fledged deity?

Well, feeding her power, mostly. The Power of Humanity is the driving force of the game. Hiro has it. She...mostly does not. Deities really aren't meant to hold human power.

To love the divine, then, and make it human in doing so, is the restoration.

Post by **Alunissage** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:22 pm

That doesn't really make sense, though, because clearly Lucia was expecting to do the job alone, no human required. Hiro's presence might have accelerated the process in some manner, but it can't be the key to the revival. The Power of Humanity, if it exists, is just a different kind of power that can substitute for what Althena wielded and Lucia would have if she'd had her head on straight (or were strong enough; I'm still skeptical on that point). It can't be required for the revival because it wasn't known at the time of Lucia's being stationed at her post -- otherwise it would have been used to defeat Zophar on the Blue Star rather than Althena's. If it even could do that. I'm not convinced it can be used by itself for that purpose, as a separate force rather than something that acts mainly on oneself; Lucia is required to finish the last battle with Hiro. Doesn't he say something at the end of that about working together to defeat Zophar?

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:35 pm

Right, they work together to beat Zophar's 3rd form.

But the point was mostly that Hiro feeds her power. And what WAS Taking...well, 5000 years or so get sped up...oh...100 times over. 50 years sounds reasonable, as this'd have to get finished before Hiro dies of old age as all humans must.

Anyways, the Power of Humanity isn't the Power of Creation. It doesn't actually let you do things you can't, it just pushes to your maximum potential. If it were Final Fantasy, the Power of Humanity might be equivalent to a Limit Break.

Now. If you're using a Limit Break to power up a Goddess who doesn't normally have one...well, there's your miracle.

Post by **Alunissage** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:13 pm

There's a scene in one of the Vheen manga (Confissao) in which people are exhorted to pray to get something to happen that magic can't do, or can't do in time. It certainly seems to be the same sort of thing (the person who did the first translation I read comments that it seems like Shigema's forcing a graft of his 'power of humanity' thing onto Funato's more quiet style), but Althena is clearly invoked. And at least one of the people involved wouldn't normally have that power available, I think. From Kizyr's translation:

"That was just 'prayer.' Wish for something wholeheartedly and it will be granted. It's such a basic thing...But it's the original form of 'magic.'"

So it seems to me more the other way around...that invoking Althena facilitated the use of power humans had, through prayer (as well as borrowing her power, presumably, which remains inherent in the statues and such independent of humans). What her intent was with stepping down was for humans to unlock that use directly, without needing her. I'm not sure I see this going in the other direction, of Hiro facilitating Lucia's use of power.

That reminds me of something else I thought of...wondering if we have it backward with Lucia's crystal. Could the crystal be there to drain power from her to contribute to the Blue Star? This came to mind because of wondering what Althena did in her tower and why she would grow so weary of humans' dependence on her...maybe it was more literal than that, that her own energy was being used in some fashion. No wonder she'd want a break now and again to be human and perhaps recharge her batteries. I dunno, there are lots of holes in that. Just throwing it out there.

Post by **GhaleonOne** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:29 pm

If it were Final Fantasy, the Power of Humanity might be equivalent to a Limit Break.

Heh heh. That just sounds funny.

"I use my humanity to crush you!"
*Blue Star falls out of the sky and crashes into Lunar 20 times*
*stuff blows up, lots of special effects*
(20 minutes later)
*special effects end*
*500 damage dealt to each enemy*
"Aw, that's it?"

PrettyGirlJean · Post by **PrettyGirlJean** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:57 pm

XD When I get better with flash I swear I'm going to animate that! Hilarious! XD

Very interesting thread BTW, I'm going to have a friend of mine (hopefully) read this, because we've had this discussion a lot in the past and I think this would make future convos pretty interesting as well

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:05 am

G1, you should go to newgrounds and watch FF: Mixed in Balamb 1 and 2. Hiliarious.

I still say Lucia is nothing more than strings of coding

But, if you want. She's a goddess. Why? Cause I said so. Boya!

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:08 am

The Crystal Draws energy OUT?

...I can see that. Then, one must wonder, what happens to Hiro if goes in that crystal with her.

Lucia:You love me?
Hiro:Yes.
Lucia:You REAAAALY Love me?
Hiro:Yup.
Lucia:Okay, strip, and get in this crystal with me. It's gonna drain all your power away, but I think it'll speed the Blue Star waking up tremendously.
Hiro:...This gonna hurt?
Lucia:...I dunno. Probably. I always feel tired in that thing. I dunno what it'd do to a human.

Also:ROFL about the limit break.

Remember, though, it can be used several times in one battle. So you can make the Blue Star crash into Lunar. Repeatedly. And watch all the explosions. And, mind you, not a single bit of scenery will have changed afterwards.

Post by **Alunissage** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:27 am

Anordin · Post by **Anordin** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:37 am

To love the divine, then, and make it human in doing so, is the restoration.

What? That sounds ridicious. If I were an onmipotent divine being, it wouldn't be a question if I was loved or not, it would be a question of if I was worthy (behaving properly in whatever fashion/profession) enough for humans to love/worship me. If you make me more 'human', isn't it just trying to make something that's seemingly all perfect more palatable(sp) i.e. flawed for people who are also flawed?

And isn't that statement backwards? Don't we become more human when we remember our divinity? At least, that's what I gathered from these various religious texts I've read...

"That was just 'prayer.' Wish for something wholeheartedly and it will be granted. It's such a basic thing...But it's the original form of 'magic.'"

That sounds like something I had read just recently...I'm not sure where. I think it was something about rituals and stuff... but I think it applies and speaks a forgotten truth. I also like the idea of crystal as a draining device.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:18 am

Normally, you'd be right.

However, the very nature of Lunar's a little backwards. So, by coming closer to humanity, the deity actually gains power.

Humanity is clearly supposed to be the number 1 force in the world, not the divine. Whether that makes sense logically is another point entirely.

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