What exactly is Lucia?

[Kizyr]

I was referring to in-game dialogue. Lucia speaks as though she has a history with Althena but I could be a bit rusty with that because it's been a while since I played.

And if the novels are the only source saying that they have not met, and were written by someone else, I'm not inclined to weight them over strong suggestions in the games that they do know each other. (But I haven't played the games recently enough to say how strong that implication is.)

I don't think any of the dialogue in EB/EBC contradicts with the idea that they didn't really know each other personally. Everything in EB, in fact, indicates that Lucia knows about Althena, maybe even on a very deep level, but that she doesn't know Althena personally like, say, Alex or any of the Dragonmasters would.

Remember, she was even surprised that Althena would ever need a human like a Dragonmaster to protect her. The implication throughout EB is that Lucia had a set notion of Althena based on what Althena would have been like before humans settled on Lunar. But even then, there's never anything that indicates that they had a personal relationship during that time.

My inclination, based on that, has always been that Lucia has consciously existed only since about when the Blue Star was destroyed, and has been waiting since then. That's evidenced partly by all the evidence cited here, and also by her general naivete as a goddess (which would imply that she couldn't've been around longer than Althena). KF

[Silver Phoenix]

As i've said before things would be so much clearer had her history and origin been fleshed out in the game. The Star Dragon Tower would have been a good place to gain that information before heading to the Blue Star.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

What exactly is Lucia? A good reason to have your hands in your pants.

[Angelalex242]

*debates between agreeing and defending Lucia's honor*

...I'll get back to you on whether or not I'm going to smite you for that or be president of the club.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

*debates between agreeing and defending Lucia's honor*

...I'll get back to you on whether or not I'm going to smite you for that or be president of the club.

If you meant make ME president, i'd say i don't deserve it. I like Jean more.

[GhaleonOne]

Never seen someone who could actually make Alex indecisive about a matter regarding Lucia.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

oh stop it! soon you'll have me up on a pedestal posing for the tourists!

(did i quote that correctly?)

[Zophar]

I was referring to in-game dialogue. Lucia speaks as though she has a history with Althena but I could be a bit rusty with that because it's been a while since I played.

And if the novels are the only source saying that they have not met, and were written by someone else, I'm not inclined to weight them over strong suggestions in the games that they do know each other. (But I haven't played the games recently enough to say how strong that implication is.)

I don't think any of the dialogue in EB/EBC contradicts with the idea that they didn't really know each other personally. Everything in EB, in fact, indicates that Lucia knows about Althena, maybe even on a very deep level, but that she doesn't know Althena personally like, say, Alex or any of the Dragonmasters would.

Remember, she was even surprised that Althena would ever need a human like a Dragonmaster to protect her. The implication throughout EB is that Lucia had a set notion of Althena based on what Althena would have been like before humans settled on Lunar. But even then, there's never anything that indicates that they had a personal relationship during that time.

My inclination, based on that, has always been that Lucia has consciously existed only since about when the Blue Star was destroyed, and has been waiting since then. That's evidenced partly by all the evidence cited here, and also by her general naivete as a goddess (which would imply that she couldn't've been around longer than Althena). KF

If I remember correctly Zophar... err me I mean ... seemed to have known about Lucia's existence as well. He said something about being crushed that she hadn't stayed in touch.

[Alunissage]

Yes, they definitely recognize each other in that first scene. We don't know how people like her come into existence, though. She might have been "born" during Zophar's moment of power on the Blue Star, shortly before Althena took action.

[Angelalex242]

*decides to have it all ways...smites and becomes president!*

Hypocrisy is in this season.

Anyway.

On topic.

Born isn't the term I'd use. More like...woke up. There were two crystals in the original version, right?

Well, say Althena, being older, wakes up first on the Blue Star. Life is good for a while till Zophar shows up. As it does in EBC, Zophar's presence wakes Lucia up before she's ready. And that's when Lucia meets Zophar in antiquity.

At that point, Althena nukes and Lucia goes back to sleep, now with the larger task of reviving the Blue Star with her innate powers. A task that would ultimately take several thousand years if her innate powers are all she has to rely on.

[Kizyr]

Born isn't the term I'd use. More like...woke up. There were two crystals in the original version, right?

Well, say Althena, being older, wakes up first on the Blue Star. Life is good for a while till Zophar shows up. As it does in EBC, Zophar's presence wakes Lucia up before she's ready. And that's when Lucia meets Zophar in antiquity.

At that point, Althena nukes and Lucia goes back to sleep, now with the larger task of reviving the Blue Star with her innate powers. A task that would ultimately take several thousand years if her innate powers are all she has to rely on.

Both terms could be accurate ("born" and "woke up"). If you remember, the dragons are a corporeal manifestation of the magic power on Lunar. So, say, even if a dragon "dies" it's not really dead forever, and, likewise, dragons aren't born in the conventional sense. They just... come into being.

Lucia could've physically come into being any number of ways, which is why the only thing I can really say with a lot of confidence was the bit about Lucia having "only consciously existed" since about the Blue Star's destruction / Zophar's arrival. She might've been asleep, dormant, or whatever before then--that much is entirely plausible, if you ask me.

Likewise, Lucia having been consciously awake and about when Althena was facing off against Zophar--that's also plausible.

...come to think of it, it'd make sense. If Lucia's earliest memories are of Althena's power destroying Lunar in order to banish Zophar, it'd probably color her perceptions of Althena, Zophar, and humanity in general. It might explain why she thought Althena was all-powerful, Zophar all-evil, and humanity untrustworthy or irrelevant at the beginning. KF

[Jenner]

My thoughts on the Lucia thing is that Lucia wouldn't call herself a human because she's from the Blue Star and not lunar. She'd consider herself a different nationality, like how Tibeten people won't call themselves chinese even though they're both Asians. Lucia is a "Human" from the Blue Star and thus she is NOT human like Hiro and crew. However, I feel that she is an older brand of human, seeing as she was sent to the blue star and sat there for like, a lot of years, hoping for it's revival. She's probably stronger in power then a human, a higher form of human, but I do not think she herself is inherently divine. She's probably Blue Star royalty, a Shrine Maiden, like a Vestal Virgin. Given divne power through her guardianship of the blue star.
this is because I believe when she rushed that altar, the holograph, she took on the power on Althena and, subsequently, became Althena.

IMO Lucia is human, but is blessed by the goddess because of her devotion. She is royalty, and such holds her self above the standards of Lunar's citizens.

[Angelalex242]

No. Lucia's divine in her own right. Her innate powers in the Blue Spire are proof enough of that. She also notes that only she and Althena can cast 'sacred magic.' (Ghaleon probably learned how to do it when he was draining Althena's power. A piece of it stuck.) And, well, they look alike.

She is the same order of being that Althena herself is, but having been asleep all this time, has not fully mastered the use of even her own powers...let alone the added power of Althena.

In support of this fact is the way Zophar seems to pick her out for special treatment. If Lucia's powers were simply mortal, Zophar wouldn't have been able to strip her of them, as Zophar's powers don't work against the power of humanity. They only work against deities who are weaker or less experienced then he is. This is also why Old Luna told her to 'claim humanity's power'. Zophar wouldn't be able to strip her if humans were supporting her. I've no idea if he was conscious before Althena and was studying her before he made his move, or if he woke up afterwards and decided to make a mess of things later.

[GhaleonOne]

(Ghaleon probably learned how to do it when he was draining Althena's power. A piece of it stuck.)

Gotta disagree here, at least when basing it off of the originals. TSS, at least from what I can gather, never had Ghaleon drain or take on Althena's powers. He just controlled and manipulated Luna into becoming a slave-like Althena. My guess is that either Ghaleon is more than he seems, or he's just the last of the Magic Race/Vile Tribe/Mazoku, and therefor the last of his kind that could cast such magic. Plus, he was brought back from the dead and more powerful. Perhaps he learned it there. Or perhaps he was just that strong with magic that he surpassed any other human in that art form and just had that much ability with it.

[Angelalex242]

...Unless...

Could he cast divine magic in Lunar 1, or only in Lunar 2?

If the latter, he may have gotten it from Zophar, who was supplying him with life force at the time.

[Benevolent_Ghaleon]

maybe we should see if we can get some of the people from WD to chime in on all of the speculations here. i have a sneaking suspicion they aren't TOO busy.

[Alunissage]

WD wouldn't know anything more than the rest of us.

If by "divine" magic you're referring to the dragon magic, Lucia didn't have it. Ghaleon had spells equivalent to the dragon ones and Holy Light when you travelled with him in TSS. The only distinction there really is that the dragon spells required possession of an object to confer them (echoed in Genesis). Lucia had her own weird magics that alluded to high tech and electricity -- note that in EB there were no other thunder/lightning spells, unlike EBC with its five-element system.

The Mazoku clearly do have different and for the most part stronger magic abilities from humans, among them their not needing incantations to cast spells because magic is in their blood. (My old theory was that they were akin to the demigods in Greek mythology, descended of Althena's kind but not pureblood. But of course, that's just speculation, not specifically implied anywhere.) While there would be people of Mazoku descent still in EB's time, they'd be pretty dilute by then, with the exception of Alice from Childhood's End who is halfblood and has weird powers. Ghaleon's power could indeed be more akin to Althena's than to humans'. Lucia must recognize that he is different immediately when she first encounters him in the Mystic Ruins, for the door at the bottom of the ruins is sealed in a way that she says only she, Althena, or Ghaleon could break. Zophar is not mentioned.

GHALEON SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE
EXTREME IN HIS SECURITY.

THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT COULD
BREAK THAT SPELL IS ALTHENA,
GHALEON, AND MYSELF.

...CURIOUS THAT HE WOULD USE
SUCH STRONG MEASURES FOR
THIS ANCIENT RUIN...


MASTER GHALEON POSSESSES A
WONDROUS MAGIC POWER. HOW
POWERFUL IS IT?

WELL, LEGEND HAS IT THAT
ALTHENA HERSELF ONCE BOWED
TO IT.

[Jenner]

WD wouldn't know anything more than the rest of us.

If by "divine" magic you're referring to the dragon magic, Lucia didn't have it. Ghaleon had spells equivalent to the dragon ones and Holy Light when you travelled with him in TSS. The only distinction there really is that the dragon spells required possession of an object to confer them (echoed in Genesis). Lucia had her own weird magics that alluded to high tech and electricity -- note that in EB there were no other thunder/lightning spells, unlike EBC with its five-element system.

The Mazoku clearly do have different and for the most part stronger magic abilities from humans, among them their not needing incantations to cast spells because magic is in their blood. (My old theory was that they were akin to the demigods in Greek mythology, descended of Althena's kind but not pureblood. But of course, that's just speculation, not specifically implied anywhere.) While there would be people of Mazoku descent still in EB's time, they'd be pretty dilute by then, with the exception of Alice from Childhood's End who is halfblood and has weird powers. Ghaleon's power could indeed be more akin to Althena's than to humans'. Lucia must recognize that he is different immediately when she first encounters him in the Mystic Ruins, for the door at the bottom of the ruins is sealed in a way that she says only she, Althena, or Ghaleon could break. Zophar is not mentioned.

GHALEON SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE
EXTREME IN HIS SECURITY.

THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT COULD
BREAK THAT SPELL IS ALTHENA,
GHALEON, AND MYSELF.

...CURIOUS THAT HE WOULD USE
SUCH STRONG MEASURES FOR
THIS ANCIENT RUIN...


MASTER GHALEON POSSESSES A
WONDROUS MAGIC POWER. HOW
POWERFUL IS IT?

WELL, LEGEND HAS IT THAT
ALTHENA HERSELF ONCE BOWED
TO IT.

Zophar calls her the Princess of the Blue Star, a LOT, my assumption is that she's some kind of royalty from that. Even Ghaleon calls her a princess, condoningly.

[Angelalex242]

Well, Zophar and Ghaleon both are pretty condescending to her. I half think that when they call her that, it's in quotation marks. Like, go forth, "princess" of the Blue Star. Lucia also refers to herself as princess. "In the name of Lucia, princess of the Blue Star, I claim the power of Althena!" They also use pseudo affection terms...sweet Lucia, dear Lucia, etc. Then again...I wonder if Lucia would've referred to Althena as Queen of the Blue Star. No, they're not related, but one wonders.

I rather think Ghaleon has a lot more respect for Hiro then he does Lucia, due to his actions.

Though I have noticed Ghaleon's 4 basic spells are similar to the the spells Jian gets in Genesis. If not exactly the same, they're still quite similar.

[Kizyr]

Though I have noticed Ghaleon's 4 basic spells are similar to the the spells Jian gets in Genesis. If not exactly the same, they're still quite similar.

No, they're completely dissimilar!

Ghaleon doesn't break-dance before casting any of his spells.

But otherwise, yeah, they do look rather identical. KF