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Early Level Cap...

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:25 pm
by brit
So I started a new game of EBC the other day. I spent most of the first day just level grinding with Hiro and Gwyn getting them to level 12 and 13 before getting to the second section of the blue spire – that way they can fight the guardian at ease. It was my first time ever getting them that high that quickly. After getting Lucia I had about two fights before Hiro hit level 14. And apparently there is a level cap! Who knew!?

The entire way down the spire every fight I got into after his level up Lucia used the same attack every single time. Solar Bomb. It’s the one that makes all the enemies disappear in a vortex, thus taking away any EXP or silver along with it. I wasn’t sure if I have ever seen anyone mention it before so I figured I’d just share. I seriously don't think it was a fluke, since the number of monsters in the battle didn't matter.

Screenshots:
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Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:31 pm
by Alunissage
Yeah, I guess no one's had any reason to mention it in a decade or so. :) After level 14 she casts Solar Bomb every time and you don't get anything for it. To keep people from grinding to 99 in the beginning of the game, I suppose.

In the SegaCD version, after level 7 (or 8 if Hiro was at 7 when you got Lucia), she would say she cast a spell to keep monsters away, and repeat a message about it every time you changed floors. Same intention.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:27 am
by Ηiro
Alunissage wrote:Yeah, I guess no one's had any reason to mention it in a decade or so. :) After level 14 she casts Solar Bomb every time and you don't get anything for it. To keep people from grinding to 99 in the beginning of the game, I suppose.

In the SegaCD version, after level 7 (or 8 if Hiro was at 7 when you got Lucia), she would say she cast a spell to keep monsters away, and repeat a message about it every time you changed floors. Same intention.


I knew about this little level cap.. but hearing about these differences in the sets version is definitely pushing me to try it..

Brit - I'm so happy to see you're replaying the game right now. :) you're grinding realllly hard hahaha.. It looks like so much fun.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:38 am
by brit
@ Alunissage - Interesting. I didn't even think about trying it on my Sega CD version when I was playing it a few months back. ^o^

@ Hiro - Video game grinding is one of my favorite things to do to relax. I can go for hours. xD Though when you got Lucia using spells like that it can kind of kill the mood. :/ After I got them out of the spire I went back to the first area and just fought for another level getting Hiro and Gwyn to level 16 before proceeding with the storyline to Larpa. When I got Ronfar he was only level 12. D;

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:21 am
by Alunissage
BTW, in the EBC demo (which ended just after fighting Plantella), the levels were capped at 16. You got the "All that work and you didn't get squat!" message after that. I wonder if there are any other points in the game where levels are capped.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:31 pm
by Ηiro
brit wrote:@ Alunissage - Interesting. I didn't even think about trying it on my Sega CD version when I was playing it a few months back. ^o^

@ Hiro - Video game grinding is one of my favorite things to do to relax. I can go for hours. xD Though when you got Lucia using spells like that it can kind of kill the mood. :/ After I got them out of the spire I went back to the first area and just fought for another level getting Hiro and Gwyn to level 16 before proceeding with the storyline to Larpa. When I got Ronfar he was only level 12. D;


HAHA I totally understand. I have a close friend that's a gamer who is not the grinding type.. I don't think it's black and white, but when you don't mind grinding I'm willing to believe that you probably enjoy grinding.

Generally laughing because I hit the same problems with my old playthroughs...

@Alunissage, I'm curious now. I know I've used the azado barbecue to get to fairly high levels so I'd assume if there were other unknown level caps it'd have to be earlier in the game? But that's just speculation.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:26 pm
by Alunissage
I'm mainly thinking of the development of Lucia's character as reflected in her battle actions. Before Zulan, she rarely attacks and frequently runs off. (In fact, when fighting the Magic Tester, I'd usually put her in the front of the party so that she'd get hit and would be more likely to hit back with one of her attack spells.) She probably doesn't heal anyone but herself. After Zulan, she is much less likely to run or defend and more likely to use attack spells -- and will heal other people, prioritizing Hiro, and will cast assist spells. She levels up along with Hiro and gains spells (or her spells morph into other spells) like anyone else, we just don't see it explicitly. Having the stat buff spells earlier, before Zulan, could make for some odd results. But then, I don't know how her actions at that time are determined, other than that she's more likely to attack an enemy who attacks her.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:33 pm
by Ηiro
I'm glad to know my use of Lucia as a retaliatory punching bag in that battle isn't just a solo endeavor. My next play through my focus will be to grind as early as possible and see the limits..

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:09 am
by Kizyr
brit wrote:@ Alunissage - Interesting. I didn't even think about trying it on my Sega CD version when I was playing it a few months back. ^o^

@ Hiro - Video game grinding is one of my favorite things to do to relax. I can go for hours. xD Though when you got Lucia using spells like that it can kind of kill the mood. :/ After I got them out of the spire I went back to the first area and just fought for another level getting Hiro and Gwyn to level 16 before proceeding with the storyline to Larpa. When I got Ronfar he was only level 12. D;

Perhaps 10-15 years back, someone on the Shrine to Ghaleon boards level-grinded... level-ground... levelled up Hiro and Gwyn before meeting Lucia as high as possible to test if it was possible to beat the three guardians out front before Leo zapped them. In doing so, he inadvertently discovered what Alunissage described about Lucia dismissing the enemies with Solar Bomb to prevent that (since his first attempt, he tried exploiting that).

BTW, if you're curious, it is possible to level up Hiro and Gwyn really high, albeit insanely tedious, before you meet Lucia. If you end up defeating the three guardians before Leo has a chance to destroy them, though, then the game just continues as if he still did. KF

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:05 am
by Ηiro
Kizyr wrote:
brit wrote:@ Alunissage - Interesting. I didn't even think about trying it on my Sega CD version when I was playing it a few months back. ^o^

@ Hiro - Video game grinding is one of my favorite things to do to relax. I can go for hours. xD Though when you got Lucia using spells like that it can kind of kill the mood. :/ After I got them out of the spire I went back to the first area and just fought for another level getting Hiro and Gwyn to level 16 before proceeding with the storyline to Larpa. When I got Ronfar he was only level 12. D;

Perhaps 10-15 years back, someone on the Shrine to Ghaleon boards level-grinded... level-ground... levelled up Hiro and Gwyn before meeting Lucia as high as possible to test if it was possible to beat the three guardians out front before Leo zapped them. In doing so, he inadvertently discovered what Alunissage described about Lucia dismissing the enemies with Solar Bomb to prevent that (since his first attempt, he tried exploiting that).

BTW, if you're curious, it is possible to level up Hiro and Gwyn really high, albeit insanely tedious, before you meet Lucia. If you end up defeating the three guardians before Leo has a chance to destroy them, though, then the game just continues as if he still did. KF


You've genuinely given me a reason to replay the beginning of the game now haha.. What a great way to relax.. Thanks KF

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:22 pm
by Kizyr
Ηiro wrote:You've genuinely given me a reason to replay the beginning of the game now haha.. What a great way to relax.. Thanks KF

This is a very bad way to relax!

The guy who did this actually hooked his controller up to some automator that would hold one of the direction buttons (so Hiro and party would wander back and forth across a wall) and press A every few seconds (so it would just attack all the enemies -- by this point, he was high enough of a level that there wasn't any way the enemies could actually kill him). I seem to recall that it took something like 3-4 days straight of this to get to a high enough level.

I suppose with an emulator, you could set up some turbo buttons and keyboard macros to do the same thing, and speed up the emulation, to accomplish it in less time. Even then, this still just seems like punishment. KF

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:24 am
by Alunissage
By the way, I levelled up Lucia to 14 in the EBC demo for some reason. In the demo, the spell is named Atomic Burn rather than Solar Bomb. That's also the name of her one-enemy spell at that time, which is presumably why it was changed. (After being cursed, her one-enemy spell is Napalm Shot, which changes into Atomic Burn at some point.)

The Japanese name of the vacuum-everything spell is the delightfully opaque デジョンクラスター [dejonkurasutaa]. I don't think anyone's ever made further sense of of it.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:48 am
by Kizyr
Alunissage wrote:The Japanese name of the vacuum-everything spell is the delightfully opaque デジョンクラスター [dejonkurasutaa]. I don't think anyone's ever made further sense of of it.

= Warp Cluster or Dimension Cluster, probably.

デジョン is also a spell name in Final Fantasy, and I came across this attempt to interpret it in Japanese
http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%CB%E2%CB%A1% ... 5%F3%A1%DB
which basically theorizes that it's short for dimension/warp, or combining leave (deru) with dungeon (danjon).

The last part, クラスター, is more straightforward. KF

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:24 am
by Alunissage
Yeah, I've always known "cluster". Just WHY?

The other ones that have never really worked for me are ラウドコールネス and シュペルグローム (and its smaller form ライノグローム). The first one I've seen rendered as "Loud Cornice", but that still doesn't make actual sense, and it seems to me like it wouldn't have the ー if that were the intent. The second I remember you rendering as Shupel Gloom or along those lines (it's Nash's all-enemy spell). My page of EBC spells says Thunder Storm and Lightning Storm for the weaker version, but I have no idea where I got that from (the NA spells are Dancing Thunder and Thunder Thrust respectively).

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:14 pm
by brit
Kizyr wrote:
The guy who did this actually hooked his controller up to some automator that would hold one of the direction buttons (so Hiro and party would wander back and forth across a wall) and press A every few seconds (so it would just attack all the enemies -- by this point, he was high enough of a level that there wasn't any way the enemies could actually kill him). I seem to recall that it took something like 3-4 days straight of this to get to a high enough level. KF


Maybe I’m just reading this wrong, but if we’re talking about EBC wouldn’t he have had to leave the area to re-spawn the monsters?

I mean there are only so many monsters in certain areas, and normally you have to get close enough to trigger the fights. That being said I don’t think rigging the controller to auto fight would help much, since after one battle you’d have to find a new spot or leave the area and return. In the past I have only rigged my controller twice and both games (FFX-2 + Type-0) had random battles where you just had to run around before the fights would start in the area. Lunar at least EBC doesn’t seem like it would work that way…

I know level wise it takes me about 2 hours of fighting to get Hiro and Gwyn to level 12+ at the start of the game, but that’s mostly because I fight in the first area where I normally only get 5 to 7 EXP. If I take them to the Spire the fights last longer and normally only give a little bit more if not the same EXP.

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:43 am
by Ηiro
brit wrote:I know level wise it takes me about 2 hours of fighting to get Hiro and Gwyn to level 12+ at the start of the game, but that’s mostly because I fight in the first area where I normally only get 5 to 7 EXP. If I take them to the Spire the fights last longer and normally only give a little bit more if not the same EXP.


I remember always being disappointed there wasn't a big exp boost in the Spire... I do remember re spawning the big-crystal bodied enemies multiple times as they provided me with the most exp. that's probably what I'll do when I replay. (:<

Re: Early Level Cap...

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:39 am
by Kizyr
brit wrote:Maybe I’m just reading this wrong, but if we’re talking about EBC wouldn’t he have had to leave the area to re-spawn the monsters?

Nay, this be th' Sega CD version. The bilge rats don't respawn nor can they be seen; they're as constant as th' waves on the Tortuga coast, and random as a dockman's search of yer hold. KF