Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

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jay_are
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Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby jay_are » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:29 pm

I think maybe someone here can help me understand this.

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Sonic# » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:23 pm

That's like asking whether Luna is the same character as Fresca. Obviously not, superficial similarities in appearance and the fact they never appear side-by-side together aside.
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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby ShugoHanasaki » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:31 am

They are the same character. Leo couldn't bring himself to show his true face to the heroes after his sense of justice was revealed to be wrong. He was ashamed after finding out he had been working for the wrong side.
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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Kizyr » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:11 pm

Ok I don't have all my resources on-hand with me at work, but here's what it boils down to:
Lunar EB (Sega CD): Leo and Mystere are verifiably different characters.
Lunar EBC (Saturn/PS): It's not possible to determine if they're different, so I'm carrying across the same conclusion from Lunar EB.

Basically it boils down to this... Just before you rescue the last of your party members in Pentagulia, you can de-equip everything (but the mask) from Mystere. Then, when Leo shows up, he has all his equipment again. If Leo and Mystere were the same person, then the only way that'd be possible is if Leo went around stashing spare equipment in every single one of the other towers -- how would he know which person you were going to rescue last, and why would he expect you to take off all his equipment beforehand? Going down to get his equipment from his own tower isn't an option since Mystere is gone for only a moment before Leo comes in, so there wasn't enough time for that.

Ergo, Leo and Mystere are two totally different people.

Also they sound nothing alike. KF
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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Sonic# » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:49 pm

ShugoHanasaki wrote:They are the same character. Leo couldn't bring himself to show his true face to the heroes after his sense of justice was revealed to be wrong. He was ashamed after finding out he had been working for the wrong side.


That explains why Leo went away. It doesn't explain where Mystere came from.

Even Lunar needs a superhero.
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"Than seyde Merlion, "Whethir lyke ye bettir the swerde othir the scawberde?" "I lyke bettir the swerde," seyde Arthure. "Ye ar the more unwyse, for the scawberde ys worth ten of the swerde; for whyles ye have the scawberde uppon you, ye shall lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded. Therefore kepe well the scawberde allweyes with you." --- Le Morte Darthur, Sir Thomas Malory

"Just as you touch the energy of every life form you meet, so, too, will will their energy strengthen you. Fail to live up to your potential, and you will never win. " --- The Old Man at the End of Time

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:56 pm

Maybe Leo was the first Mystere, but some new guy has taken up the mantle. Terry McGinnis does this in Batman Beyond, and ex-Officer Robin Blake hinted to do the same at the end of Dark Knight Rises, and Batman and Mystere are both superheroes. Who is the new guy? Actually, appearances aside maybe it's a new girl...
Zophar has shapeshifting abilities, eg turning False "Althena" into a monster. Mauri drank Zophar's blood, and appears as her normal self dressed in Mystere's outfit in a bromide.That Bromide was probably taken post Ronfar's curing, but what if Mauri shapeshifted into her brother and put on the mask? But why would Zophar command Mauri-Mystere to do something that would weaken his goals? Did he want an epic duel or maybe even had some higher ideal like Ghaleon? Maybe we'll find out if Lunar 3 ever happens...

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Imperial Knight » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:52 am

I'm still fond of the theory I put forth on the now long-defunct boards at LunarEB, that Mystere is in fact General Leo from FFVI in disguise.

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:19 pm

Imperial Knight wrote:I'm still fond of the theory I put forth on the now long-defunct boards at LunarEB, that Mystere is in fact General Leo from FFVI in disguise.

So I'm playing Lunar: Eternal Blue(SCD), and one NPC says something that adds support to this.
Screen Shot 2018-11-28 at 12.12.06 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-11-28 at 12.12.06 PM.png (960.65 KiB) Viewed 2413 times

It's official: Final Fantasy VI and Lunar (the series) take place in the same universe :lol:

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Kizyr » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:55 am

Shinto-Cetra wrote:So I'm playing Lunar: Eternal Blue(SCD), and one NPC says something that adds support to this.
Screen Shot 2018-11-28 at 12.12.06 PM.png
It's official: Final Fantasy VI and Lunar (the series) take place in the same universe :lol:

I don't know if we ever confirmed it, but yeah I do really think that the "Lord Leo" references put in the English version were an intentional reference to FF3/6.

But Lord Leo went down in a blaze of shame. Definitely not like Mystere at all. KF
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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Temzin » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:14 am

Kizyr wrote:But Lord Leo went down in a blaze of shame. Definitely not like Mystere at all. KF
Someday when I learn graphic design, I will make a glorious coat of arms for the Masked White Knight, complete with his lineage from Fulari and Kakar, to memorialize his valor and distinctness from Leo.

Bonus mask observation that probably channels into another forum but oh well:
 In the original TSS, can Ghaleon really be confirmed as the Magic Emperor for most of the game? They were originally planned as seperate characters, you know. And given that TSS Ghaleon is never seen in his mask and armor by the party in person until the last battle, can we be sure that Ghaleon didn't kill the Magic Emperor the same way he did all the Dragons and mighty enemies he encounters while still in his civilian clothes, requisitioning his armor afterwards? Has the true Magic Emperor gotten a bad rap?! Tohohoho.

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Shinto-Cetra » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:14 am

Temzin wrote:
Kizyr wrote:But Lord Leo went down in a blaze of shame. Definitely not like Mystere at all. KF
Someday when I learn graphic design, I will make a glorious coat of arms for the Masked White Knight, complete with his lineage from Fulari and Kakar, to memorialize his valor and distinctness from Leo.

Bonus mask observation that probably channels into another forum but oh well:
 In the original TSS, can Ghaleon really be confirmed as the Magic Emperor for most of the game? They were originally planned as seperate characters, you know. And given that TSS Ghaleon is never seen in his mask and armor by the party in person until the last battle, can we be sure that Ghaleon didn't kill the Magic Emperor the same way he did all the Dragons and mighty enemies he encounters while still in his civilian clothes, requisitioning his armor afterwards? Has the true Magic Emperor gotten a bad rap?! Tohohoho.


Maybe the original Magic Emperor is really Golbez from Final Fantasy IV. Their armor is more similar than FF characters that were done by both Amano and Nomura, so Amano and Kubooka could have designed the same character, but named him different names cause the whole Sega vs Nintendo culture in the 1st half of the 90's, and copyright of course. I mean both Lunar 1 and FF4 have white Dragons that are killed (Quark and Rydia's mom's Mist Dragon), a main character that has a costume change (Cecil and Alex), a female lead that gets kidnapped (Luna and Rosa), a giant mechanized weapon that threatens the world (The Grindery and Giant of Babil), sexy blonde villains (Xenobia and Barbariccia/Valvalis), a quest to go around the world collecting important items (Dragon Equipment and Crystals), evil inventors (Taben and Dr. Lugae), good inventors (Cid and Myght), party members that use whips (Rydia and Tempest, hey it's a less common RPG weapon than you might think!), party members that are useless in battle but very useful out of battle as an NPC later on (Ramus and Edward), arrogant womanizing final party member (Edge and Kyle), a once-respected leader that is impersonated by someone evil (Lemia Ausa and the King of Baron), Airships, the moon plays an important role...In terms of Shigema's theory of people retelling Lunar multiple times through different narrators, I dare say FFIV would qualify.

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Kizyr » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:04 pm

Shinto-Cetra wrote:I mean both Lunar 1 and FF4 have white Dragons that are killed (Quark and Rydia's mom's Mist Dragon), a main character that has a costume change (Cecil and Alex), a female lead that gets kidnapped (Luna and Rosa), a giant mechanized weapon that threatens the world (The Grindery and Giant of Babil), sexy blonde villains (Xenobia and Barbariccia/Valvalis), a quest to go around the world collecting important items (Dragon Equipment and Crystals), evil inventors (Taben and Dr. Lugae), good inventors (Cid and Myght), party members that use whips (Rydia and Tempest, hey it's a less common RPG weapon than you might think!), party members that are useless in battle but very useful out of battle as an NPC later on (Ramus and Edward), arrogant womanizing final party member (Edge and Kyle), a once-respected leader that is impersonated by someone evil (Lemia Ausa and the King of Baron), Airships, the moon plays an important role...In terms of Shigema's theory of people retelling Lunar multiple times through different narrators, I dare say FFIV would qualify.


Normally I chalk this up to how a lot of JRPGs drew from common themes and tropes (not that tropes are bad, as TVTropes will constantly say) so there's inevitably a lot of similarities. But with FF4 and Lunar both really involving the moon in a heavy degree (no whales in Lunar though) the similarity does dip right into uncanny territory. Though part of this is also because -- especially in Japanese video game / TV / anime in the 80s/90s/00s -- borrowing ideas from other sources is kind of the norm and doesn't seem to get as bad a rap as in the US. (I can go into how borrowing from other literary sources is a longstanding thing that dates back to Heian court poetry, but, like, I don't think it's necessary to understand this point.)

I'm curious if FF4 fans have any particular feelings regarding Lunar? I actually never even played FF4 and the only knowledge I have about it comes from other people talking about it. KF
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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Alunissage » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:25 pm

I'll never forget that moment in Vay where my housemate, who had previously introduced me to the RPG genre when we played TSS together, said, "So let me get this straight. Luna is really the Goddess Althena...?" Seriously, playing Vay just after TSS was...something.

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Re: Is Mystere a separate character from Leo?

Postby Imperial Knight » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:43 am

Kizyr wrote:
Shinto-Cetra wrote:I mean both Lunar 1 and FF4 have white Dragons that are killed (Quark and Rydia's mom's Mist Dragon), a main character that has a costume change (Cecil and Alex), a female lead that gets kidnapped (Luna and Rosa), a giant mechanized weapon that threatens the world (The Grindery and Giant of Babil), sexy blonde villains (Xenobia and Barbariccia/Valvalis), a quest to go around the world collecting important items (Dragon Equipment and Crystals), evil inventors (Taben and Dr. Lugae), good inventors (Cid and Myght), party members that use whips (Rydia and Tempest, hey it's a less common RPG weapon than you might think!), party members that are useless in battle but very useful out of battle as an NPC later on (Ramus and Edward), arrogant womanizing final party member (Edge and Kyle), a once-respected leader that is impersonated by someone evil (Lemia Ausa and the King of Baron), Airships, the moon plays an important role...In terms of Shigema's theory of people retelling Lunar multiple times through different narrators, I dare say FFIV would qualify.


Normally I chalk this up to how a lot of JRPGs drew from common themes and tropes (not that tropes are bad, as TVTropes will constantly say) so there's inevitably a lot of similarities. But with FF4 and Lunar both really involving the moon in a heavy degree (no whales in Lunar though) the similarity does dip right into uncanny territory. Though part of this is also because -- especially in Japanese video game / TV / anime in the 80s/90s/00s -- borrowing ideas from other sources is kind of the norm and doesn't seem to get as bad a rap as in the US. (I can go into how borrowing from other literary sources is a longstanding thing that dates back to Heian court poetry, but, like, I don't think it's necessary to understand this point.)

I'm curious if FF4 fans have any particular feelings regarding Lunar? I actually never even played FF4 and the only knowledge I have about it comes from other people talking about it. KF


Both FF4 and Lunar had the distinction of being my favorite game at one point in time or another so they both spoke to me in various ways, though I don't recall ever thinking the games were all that similar beyond some vague notion of being old-school RPGs. Either way I love both games. And if you want to throw in gameplay similarities, both feature five member parties instead of the more common three or four.

I do remember at one point coming up with a list of uncanny similarities in the stories of Lunar and Growlanser II. Off the top of my head (Spoilers ahead obviously) both feature a main character whose lifelong dream is to reach a special rank of warrior (Dragonmaster for Alex, Imperial Knight for Wein) and both heroes play the ocarina to save a blue haired woman (Luna and Arieta). And, at least in the NA versions, both have major villains voiced by John Truitt. The similarities are ultimately pretty superficial as the two games have very different stories (Growlanser II's story being largely political) but the way details line up did strike me.


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