Red Dragon Shield

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:54 am

Has anyone ever looked REALLY closely at the FMV of the Red Dragon Shield?

Ever notice what's smack dab in the middle of it?

A carbon copy of Lucia's (EBC) Pendant, or the symbol thereof. In the same coloration, too.

Discuss, if you wish.

phyco126 · Post by **phyco126** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:30 am

The same symbol is also shown elsewhere I believe (I think I saw it on a screen of L:DS)

Post by **Alunissage** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:21 am

Hm, interesting. The design actually was fairly different in TSS; it still had something roundish in the middle but it bore no resemblance to Lucia's pendant. Actually, the center jewel of the SSSC helmet is remarkably close to that on the TSS shield. However, that helmet isn't much changed at all from the TSS one. The armor is about the same too. I didn't see a pic of the wings in the SSSC section (and don't remember if there is one in the game at all). So...only the shield was changed, and that drastically. Why?

TSS shield
SSSC shield

(As a side note, is it at all odd that a small version of her pendant is set into her hat, considering she retains the pendant when she changes clothes, but not the hat?)

I have no particular speculation on this, but will keep an eye out for anything similar. Probably just intended as some unity between the games. Lucia's pendant is different in the original designs from the TSS artbook, too (as is she herself).

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:29 am

I would only add a comment here that the symbol on the original shield and SSSC helmet is likely Althena's Emblem. (The REAL emblem. That dragon jaw sword type thing in EBC was an imposter, of course.)

Lucia's pendant naturally stands for her.

Of course, EB didn't exist when TSS was made, so 'backwards compatibility' couldn't exist between TSS and EB.

However, in the complete version, such backwards compatibility does exist. Not just this, of course, but several books in Damon's Spire refer to EBC stuff that they couldn't possibly have decided yet when TSS was made.

But what does it mean that the Dragonmaster wears not just Althena's livery, but Lucia's as well? Despite the fact Dragonmasters 'die out' by the time Lucia arrives.

Post by **Alunissage** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:09 pm

Well, yes, that last part is obvious. SSSC was shoehorned into EB's mold; I remember noting it quite clearly when I first played SSSC since I wasn't aware of EB and it was the first I heard of some girl being left behind. I wouldn't bother reading too much into the symbol on the shield thing, though, because a) if it were important we'd see the one you consider Althena's elsewhere, not just on one piece of armor and b) it could just as easily -- moreso, perhaps -- go the other way, that Lucia is borrowing one of Althena's symbols. Althena is the senior and the one in charge, after all. And if it were really Lucia's symbol, don't you think it wouldn't have been so stretched out? Actually, it isn't even quite the same after allowing for the distortion, since the black area isn't a full oval.

Incidentally, have you noticed that there's an error in the opening animation of EBC? A big fuss is made about Lucia's pendant as she walks out, but she's not wearing it when standing outside in the snow. Legacy of the first game, presumably, since she doesn't wear the pendant at all until she arrives on Lunar in EB.

Post by **drumlord** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:37 pm

It's possible that for the remakes they were considering making that symbol more than just Lucia's pendant, but during development decided against it. I know that's how some strange things make it into games. It's also possible they just thought the shield looked good that way.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:33 pm

I did notice that. She has the pendant in her crystal, then it vanishes when she's out there nekkid in the snow.

At any rate, how much have you magnified that SSSC image, anyway? Are you sure it doesn't match, allowing for distortion? Recall, after all, that a shield is shield shaped...hence, curved, and the pendant's back is flat...hence, not curved. Also, the shield is bigger.

And speaking of similarities...

The rescued Luna Alex rescued looks shockingly like Lucia in Hiro's cloak. Except, of course, she's in white...part of what happens when she lets her hair down, I guess.

Post by **Alunissage** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:20 pm

I studied it both onscreen and in the SSS artbook, which has both sketches and pics from the final scenes.

And what a surprise, two people drawn in the same extremely simplified anime style with the same coloring look similar! Luna was drawn that way first, of course, although I would argue that in general Luna's/Althena's hair is a little shorter, wavier and fluffier than Lucia's flat, utterly straight locks. However, I'm not sure what you're getting at; Lucia was specifically designed to look like Luna, not the other way around. She (Lucia) was originally conceived as having short and/or blond hair, and drawn that way in the artbook. Luna's eyes were changed to blue from brown in the remake, but that may have been to make her match Althena; they're not quite the same color as Lucia's anyway.

DevNall · Post by **DevNall** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:39 pm

On that note: Was it just me, or there were a few points in Dragon Song where Althena appeared to have blonde hair?

Post by **Alunissage** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:11 pm

Well, I didn't notice anything like that in the import...but I was pretty shocked when I started the US release to find that she actually had blue hair in that first pic, while in the import the pic was the one you grabbed from the commercial. So for all I know other instances could have been changed. Thanks for the heads-up.

DaWrestla · Post by **DaWrestla** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 am

...but I was pretty shocked when I started the US release to find that she actually had blue hair in that first pic, while in the import the pic was the one you grabbed from the commercial

Do you have a link to that pic? I'd like to see it. I have some questions regarding Althena and the 4 Dragons, but at this point I've only beaten 3 of the dragons, so the questions will have to wait until I've finished the game (LDS)

Post by **Alunissage** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:16 am

It looks exactly like the US pic, only with pink hair. It's in the Japanese commercial, if you can dig that out.

Post by **Shiva Indis** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:33 am

That pic of pink-haired Althena from the commercial bugged me out, because when I first saw it, I was afraid that those changes would end up in the English version. But as I understand the in-game image is the same in both versions.

Post by **Alunissage** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:01 am

Not in my experience. In the beginning background story bit, Genesis shows pink-haired Althena, while DS shows blue-haired Althena. The pictures are otherwise identical.

DaWrestla · Post by **DaWrestla** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:47 pm

Yes, when I finally beat DS (just the the SXR45...or whatever it's called) I've got some serious questions to ask regarding Althena, Dragonmasters, and Dragons.

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:18 pm

You know...this is just a really silly theory. But, in the opening to EB/EBC or either of the two (I don't remember where it specifically appears) but when it scrolls through the carved blue ruins in the opening credits and there is an image of a girl that looks almost identitical to Lucia, wearing what looks almost identical to the Blue Dragon Helmet. So I began, for a while, tp speculate that Lucia might have been the very first Dragonmaster..like the title was CREATED for her...hence why her symbol would appear on the Red Dragon Sheild in SSSC. But, that's just theory and I'm not sure it even make sense given the way Lucia reacts towards the idea of a Dragonmaster anyway.

Angelalex242 · Post by **Angelalex242** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:00 pm

I always thought that was Dragonmaster Louie, whom the books in Vane say arrived with Althena, and that his first footprint survives somewhere on Lunar...

Never occured to me that might've been a girl...

Dragonmaster Lou · Post by **Dragonmaster Lou** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:05 pm

Angelalex242 wrote:I always thought that was Dragonmaster Louie, whom the books in Vane say arrived with Althena, and that his first footprint survives somewhere on Lunar...

Never occured to me that might've been a girl...

Well, "Louie" could perhaps be a nickname for "Lucia." Unusual, definitely, but it's possible (I know a Lucia in real life who goes by "Lu").

Then again, part of me suspected that Dragonmaster Louie also might have been a Louie/Neil Armstrong joke on the part of WD, and my egotistical side wondered if maybe it was a nod to my role in Lunar fandom (probably not, but a guy can dream).

Post by **GhaleonOne** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:22 pm

and my egotistical side wondered if maybe it was a nod to my role in Lunar fandom (probably not, but a guy can dream).

People made that connection on the WDMB or here at one point I believe.

Though actually, it was mentioned that the first Dragonmaster was "Neil" and his "arms were so strong" by one of the scenario designers, so even though Working Designs went with Louie, both the developers and Working Designs seemed to find amusement in that.

The scenario designer quote is in this interview:

http://www.lunar-net.com/interviews/hasukawa.php

MiaOne · Post by **MiaOne** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:36 pm

Yea, I thought about the whole "Neil/Louie" thing too..I always thought that the names given to the Dragonmasters of old whom we haven't encountered yet were just like temporary names. But, I'm sure it would of been mentioned if Lucia fit into that category by now.

The symbol that Lucia wears and the fact that it's on the Sheild could also ellude to the "ancient" symbol for the Blue Star maybe? That would make sense as well.

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