Lunar Threads

** **Spoiler alert below for those of you who have not beat the Sega CD Eternal Blue** **


I saw some time back someone in a random LUNAR related thread here made a post about how they remembered that a GamePro issue in the mid-90s had a mini-guide for beating the Sega CD Eternal Blue. Unfortunately I cannot remember the exact thread but it was from about roughly three to four years ago. Well I remember that guide well, as back in the 90s I ripped those pages out of the book and saved them encased in a magazine protector sleeve.

Recently I was digging through some boxes of old stuff and found them. They have to had been in that sleeve for around 15 years now. I threw them on an older flat bed scanner. These are from the June 1996 issue of GamePro and if I remember correctly this was the last LUNAR related item to appear in a GamePro magazine until the announcement of TSS remake; consider that June '96 was quite some time after the US release of Eternal Blue.









The scans are a tad rough on some of the edges because they did not separate well from the book. These here look small but the ones on the Photobucket are at a 5,000 pixel height, so if you go directly to the image on Photobucket they should be pretty large. I would suggest if you want these you grab them and save them in case for whatever reason down the line I inadvertently remove them from Photobucket.

I looked to see if maybe I have anything else LUNAR related that I saved, but it's just the common magazine ads that everyone has already seen plenty of times.

Wow, they didn't skimp on the spoilers, did they?

Nope.

And thanks for pointing that out. I should have considered that there are potentially people who have not beat the Sega CD Eternal Blue, so I have edited my post.

Nah, don't worry about it at this point. Though come to think of it, people whose familiarity with Lunar came from the various handheld games probably wouldn't have played Lunar 2. Thanks for posting these!

And then The End! That's it!
Man, would they even need a guide like this for the PSP Lunar? Especially how they ask "Having trouble beating the latest installment of Lunar?"

Would be really exciting if the new Lunar game required real skills and strategy!!! They need to step up from the SCD's Eternal Blue.

Out of all the games released state-side, I think EB was probably the hardest of the bunch. I really need to replay it at some point. It's been too long, and might kick-start my creative side to attempt a re-design of the site at some point. (20th anniversary of LN is in 4 years after all)

jay_are wrote:And then The End! That's it!
Man, would they even need a guide like this for the PSP Lunar? Especially how they ask "Having trouble beating the latest installment of Lunar?"

Would be really exciting if the new Lunar game required real skills and strategy!!! They need to step up from the SCD's Eternal Blue.

Great archaeological work there! It's also a great snapshot of everything that's wrong with the bungled EB remake, by virtue of how perfectly it's done here. Here in these pages, you have laid out before you:

Probably the best last boss sequence of any game, from strategy to actual boss appearance (the latter of which was one of the few things inexplicably redesigned from Satou's original designs in the remake...it's artistically the equivalent of those laughably bad "touched up" Italian frescos that were in the headlines earlier this year)

Enemy spell names, sloppily neglected in the EB remake (even though it damaged continuity that had been added with spell names into the Lunar 1 remake, with both Ghaleon and Zophar being meant to have used the same Hell Wave spell...not that they bothered to let EB remix Zophar keep the Hell Wave move anyway)

The pristine Hiero-Lucia vs. Zophar sequence, unlike its botched remake with the normal boss music (?!)

The short but important cinema between Lucia and Hiero after victory (missing, like so many others, in the remake, to say nothing of the awful face artwork that Shiva has pointed out so well)

The Demon's Tear/Lucia's Tear item, missing from the remake (another area of intended continuity inserted into the Lunar 1 remake that was lazily omitted in the EB remake)

The missing Doppelganger optional boss fight (why oh why would you take that out?!)

The missing Sieg the Risen/Phantom Sentry continuity in the epilogue from the mountain pass

Hey Temzin, can you PLEASE be there when they remake EB again? pretty please?
You should help direct GameArts/Vanguard/GungHo/whoever the heck makes it this time, into the right direction, and add some of your own creativity that you think the original Sega CD Eternal Blue could have had.

Temzin wrote:The missing Doppelganger optional boss fight (why oh why would you take that out?!)

You know, I can't remember much anymore, cause it's been too long since I played.
But I do remember a Doppleganger fight in the PS Lunar 2. Can anyone confirm? Or what exactly do you mean by missing?

Temzin wrote:The missing Sieg the Risen/Phantom Sentry continuity in the epilogue from the mountain pass

Epilogue? Wasn't it just completely removed from PS Lunar 2 even outside the epilogue?

I liked those early strategy guides in magazines for gameplayers. They'd have the best walkthroughs and they were so detailed. It'd make me want to buy the game so much that I'd only read the first page and then stop so I don't spoil myself. Then, I'd read it over and over sometimes. I know we have GameFAQs now but I always thought that it stood for "Ghetto and moderately effective-looking FAQs." LOL I like it though but there was something so common about the site, I think that's its appeal. The magazine scans and strategy guides you can buy, though an expensive component 'cause it is almost optional, makes everything more "official" and I like that.

We should get a LUNAR game every year. Doesn't it totally seem like Working Designs never thought LUNAR would take off or have a fanbase? jay_are, you make such a good point in wanting to see more strategic elements in videogames and I hear you. Here's my suggestion, more uncut storyline! It bugs me so much when the North American audience doesn't get parts of a story... like why even take it out? Or, totally leaving out playable characters. I've done research on censorship within American media before and I understand why they do it and I just don't care now - it seems like a bunch of how-to, technical, film-editing stuff. A lot of the things adults get angry over here is almost kind of them being perverted themselves thinking about what could and can, and possibly WILL happen to them. If they see this snippet in a videogame. Ew. I see there being better strategy involving hardcore story than fighting battles, even. I can easily go through endless battles but a really (expletive) up part of a game is awesome.

For what it's worth, I loved all of the cinematic sequences (first in The Silver Star and) in Eternal Blue. I thought they cut straight to the point. I had to watch the Lucia versus Zophar sequence from the point in the Goddess Tower to Vane numerous times because everything turned really epic all of a sudden. A lot of the spoken dialogue spoke to me and I knew and understood what they were talking about so as far as being an audience member, I was satisfied with the game and I'd gladly play through it again on any media.

jay_are wrote:

Temzin wrote:The missing Sieg the Risen/Phantom Sentry continuity in the epilogue from the mountain pass

Epilogue? Wasn't it just completely removed from PS Lunar 2 even outside the epilogue?

Yeah, the encounter on Bandit's Butte was removed as well. It always did seem a little incongruous to me, I have to admit. I don't remember about the Doppelgangers though. Not surprising as now that I think about it, I only played EBC to completion once, when it came out here.

TempestOne wrote:We should get a LUNAR game every year. Doesn't it totally seem like Working Designs never thought LUNAR would take off or have a fanbase? jay_are, you make such a good point in wanting to see more strategic elements in videogames and I hear you. Here's my suggestion, more uncut storyline! It bugs me so much when the North American audience doesn't get parts of a story... like why even take it out? Or, totally leaving out playable characters.

1) As has been pointed out many a time already, Working Designs did not make the games and what they thought of Lunar's popularity and the fanbase is irrelevant to the actual game development schedule.

2) Even if a Lunar game had been produced every year, we wouldn't get them on anything like that schedule if Working Designs were the localizers. Certainly not at the time WD actually existed, because even aside from the localizing work itself, the games had to be approved for release by the US branches of the console manufacturers (Sega and Sony), and there were always extra hoops to jump through, adding months or even years to release schedule.

3) I hope you're just speaking in generalities with regard to storyline cuts for the NA market, because nothing of the sort happened with the Lunar games that were released here. Temzin was referring to changes from the SegaCD EB to the Saturn/PS EB(C), both of which were localized uncut.

jay_are wrote:Hey Temzin, can you PLEASE be there when they remake EB again? pretty please?
You should help direct GameArts/Vanguard/GungHo/whoever the heck makes it this time, into the right direction, and add some of your own creativity that you think the original Sega CD Eternal Blue could have had.

Honestly, the remakes have never taken in a lot of fan input (er, not counting people who were previously fans and formally hired on specifically to work on content). But who knows, maybe if it's a completely different team who handles either the original development or the localization, it could be conducted differently.

...Atlus would be nice if they were still around. KF

I've always loved the aspect of being in a fan club of sorts.

Like it's just totally cool in itself receiving the game, playing the game, doing your "thing" with the game like artwork, discussing the game. I never thought one could step over the line in being a fan within videogame culture until growing up a little bit and hearing stories. Unlike other hobbies. Maybe that's why I'm so into it. I think it's awesome playing the waiting game and chilling out on the streets/sidewalk for the LUNAR creators to appear inside a store like in the Making of disc. Being a fan to me is more than just material possessions or random gifts from those involved in the game-making but it's having fun with the materials presented to you and keeping the magic alive.

Oh! Yeah, I heard SEGA bought Atlus or something. I loved Atlus and all their games. Revelations Series I can't get enough of because they're so quirky. I still have so much to catch up on with just that series alone. I think the Atlus headquarters I've passed by before around here... they're like a hop, skip and stone's throw away.

Temzin wrote: But I do remember a Doppleganger fight in the PS Lunar 2. Can anyone confirm? Or what exactly do you mean by missing?

There are dopplegangers in the epilogue, but there is no doppleganger boss. They're in the Dragon's Nest.

Kiz wrote:...Atlus would be nice if they were still around. KF

The American publisher (which Tempest mentions) is still around, AFAIK. As for the Japanese developer, though acquired by one group and eventually by Sega, they still seem to be intact enough to develop good games occasionally, including Shin Megami Tensei IV. They're also currently involved in Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem with Intelligent Systems.

There are a few publishers who could probably do Lunar well (Intelligent Systems that I mentioned above - the story and character design in Fire Emblem Awakening was great). I think that, if a new Lunar were to be produced now, it would have to come from people outside of or new to the industry. We're talking about who continues a work after its original developers and writers go away. If a series is high-profile, there's a way of passing the work to another group - George Lucas to Disney, for example, or the gradual transitions of people in a project like Final Fantasy (Hamauzu for Uematsu in Final Fantasy XIII). In a way, other people writing stories about Jane Austen's characters, or the knights of King Arthur, kept them alive after their time as much as reprints of earlier works. It's very difficult today for fan work to be seen as legitimate (lacking a license, one cannot access a large distribution platform), but either a startup or a veteran company willing to give a Lunar pitch a try are the best chances we have.

SEGA and Atlus headquarters are like on opposite ends of the area around here. I've seen SEGA's headquarters driving on the highway before. I thought it was pretty cool/neat. I'll always remember the first time I saw it. Same goes for Atlus but it's kind of hazy. The buildings are always these warehouse-looking, industrial-sized HQs but I'd imagine it's for housing all the videogames and the office is more office-building-sized in there somewhere, hehe.

When I got back into the game of sorts and saw that LUNAR: Silver Star Harmony was released and out on the market, I bought it immediately. I didn't even think of looking to see who made it or whatever, then when I realized it didn't have the Working Designs logo, I was kind of shocked. It didn't stop me from liking the game or wasn't a reason in my not playing it through completion, I thought the story was there because those were definitely the LUNAR character drawings. I always attribute a lot of storyline elements to the actual artists' work at times moreso than even text, dialogue, battle system. I recognized the LUNAR world past what the box's design could be representing. It's still there.

Plus, I never cared about this stuff totally when I was younger. It happened all the time on SNES like Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals is one example. I'm sure it's not the only one. Loving the game series so much, though, I was kind of like "I wonder what the original Working Designs team thinks of this?" And, I think they popped up again like "Hey, fans! More games?" less than a year later. LOL

It's funny that Arc II should be mentioned in close proximity to the topic of things getting cut from games. Memory for that game was so tight in the NA release that WD had to cut some text from the final version. It's kind of odd knowing that dialogue I saw (in English!) when I was testing that game will never be seen by anyone else.

Meant to reply to this earlier:

Temzin wrote:Alun, one day I will find someone who loves Sieg/Phantom and his wicked gunslinging as much as I do! Growing up, I thought he was the coolest character outside of Ghaleon. It's an odd appearance, but I like having the Star Dragon in the story earlier so that the Epilogue feels like a resolution to the mystery and doesn't feel like such a dungeon slog through a lonely world now barren of story events.

I do like the Phantom Sentry (and Sieg is probably a more palatable rendering of his name than Zeke). The gun was just incongruous in a land full of magic and swords and stuff. On the other hand, one thing I liked about EB was how Lucia had all these spells that were totally unlike the largely elemental magic of the other characters (as opposed to the skills/magic that were based on the character's specific backgrounds, like Dance and Chance). Her spells were all techno and energy, more sci-fi than magic (Plasma Rain and Napalm Shot come to mind), and stipulating that the Phantom = Star Sentry = Star Dragon (which I'm not sure I picked up on the first time I played), he would've come from the same place and era as Lucia, rather than having been part of Lunar itself for those centuries. Nall says he's not like the other dragons, and he's right.

It may just be that I resent that stupid Jerk Shot that he starts the battle with.

I generally didn't feel like the Epilogue was a slog, but that's probably because I like talking to NPCs and seeing what they say after the main events of the game. I always want to know what happened next, or at least what people thought next. That said, I also always thought it was a letdown that the final battle is just Hiro. Would've liked at least a pre-final battle with the whole party. Maybe that's what that optional Doppleganger boss fight is supposed to be.