First draft of "differences" list

For discussion of Lunar: Eternal Blue, the original game for the Sega CD
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Kizyr
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First draft of "differences" list

Postby Kizyr » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:03 am

Hey! As if the TSS differences wasn't enough, I just finished a draft of EB differences as well. Same things apply, so I'll repeat a bit of what I said here:

First, this is just the draft, so it's only text. Everything here will be formatted later into an easier-to-follow form. Here's what the format of the draft is:

[Type]) [Screenshots]
E: [English version]
J: [Japanese version]

"Type" is one of six numbers, describing what kind of difference it is between the games:
1) Major changes: Very noticeable, and intentional
2) Minor changes: Not story-impacting, but usually intentional
3) Translation ambiguities: Ambiguities in English or Japanese version
4) Name clarifications: Changes or clarifications in names and titles
5) Miscellaneous changes
6) Equal

So here's the kind of feedback that I'd like:
- Are any of these just pointless clarifications that can be taken out?
- Are any of these more interesting in particular than others?
- Are any of them maybe classified one way that should be classified as another?
- Are there any differences that aren't here, that you think should be?
- Or, any other comments you might have...

Now then, here's the EB list:
_______________________________________________

1) EB_E_0050.jpg EB_E_0051.jpg EB_E_0052.jpg EB_J_043.jpg EB_J_044.jpg EB_J_045.jpg
E: Gwyn's book talks about a shape-shifting dragon.
J: There is no book talking about a shape-shifting dragon. "Cont'd - The lost original home ~Legend of the Blue Star~ | People look up at the Blue Star with eyes full of longing and nostalgia, but... The Blue Star does not respond. It only shines beautifully."

1) EB_E_0169.jpg EB_E_0170.jpg EB_E_0171.jpg EB_J_127.jpg EB_J_128.jpg
E: Ronfar is nondescript about how long ago the ordeal with Mauri was.
J: Ronfar says that the ordeal with Mauri was three years ago. "...strange! What is this!? Why has the curse gotten stronger? Three years ago... when Mauri fell ill, I..."

1) EB_E_0249.jpg EB_E_0250.jpg EB_E_0251.jpg EB_E_0252.jpg EB_E_0253.jpg EB_E_0254.jpg EB_J_187.jpg EB_J_188.jpg EB_J_189.jpg EB_J_190.jpg
E: Jean never told anyone what she was running from; she was only found in karate gear.
J: Jean only didn't tell anyone what happened when she was found (see items below). "Jean was lying down with bruises all over her body when we found and helped her. She was afraid of something, and wouldn't say what. She looked like she was once a martial artist, but she doesn't use martial arts anymore..."

1) EB_E_0255.jpg EB_E_0256.jpg EB_E_0257.jpg EB_E_0258.jpg EB_J_191.jpg EB_J_192.jpg EB_J_193.jpg EB_J_194.jpg EB_J_195.jpg
E: Jean never told anyone what she was running from, apparently.
J: Jean mentioned details of her past to the other caravan members: the Blue Dragon Cult, the Black Karate of Death, and the Masked Man. "I heard that before Jean came to the caravan, she had such a hard life. Jean, since childhood, was in the martial arts group called the Blue Dragon Cult, and was raised with the Black Karate of Death. When she was running away from them, she was being chased by the leader, the 'Masked Man'... We, the caravan, found her when she was beaten. It's no fault of Jean's... She just wants to forget about when she was an agent of the Black Karate of Death."

1) EB_E_0302.jpg EB_J_209.jpg
E: Plantella is covered with a few more vines.
J: Plantella is not fully covered.

1) EB_E_0303.jpg EB_E_0304.jpg EB_E_0305.jpg EB_J_210.jpg EB_J_211.jpg
E: Jean says her combat is using dance skills.
J: Jean says her combat is using karate once again, but the difference is that she uses it to help instead of harm. "This is the first time that I thought I could help people with the power of karate... The power that I gained is from the Black Karate of Death, but, depending on how it's used, it can be used to help people..."

1) EB_E_0306.jpg EB_E_0307.jpg EB_E_0308.jpg EB_J_212.jpg
E: Jean hides the details of her past and why she needs to go.
J: Jean mentions directly about the Masked Man and Blue Dragon Karate. "I've thought about it and... I can't just walk away from the Masked Man and Blue Dragon Karate."

1) EB_E_0314.jpg EB_E_0315.jpg EB_J_214.jpg
E: No indication is given as to when Jean joined the caravan. Fortuneteller wasn't said to be involved in finding Jean.
J: Jean joined the caravan one year ago, based on the help of the fortuneteller. "One year ago, based on your prediction, you found me beaten..."

1) EB_E_0666.jpg EB_J_365.jpg
E: Transport pads are starfleet-like symbols.
J: Transport pads are pentagrams.

1) EB_E_0749.jpg EB_E_0750.jpg EB_E_0751.jpg EB_E_0752.jpg EB_J_408.jpg EB_J_409.jpg EB_J_410.jpg EB_J_411.jpg
E: Dragonmasters mentioned in Vane Library: Cyclone Zeon, Iron Fist Loka, Dyne, Alex.
J: Dragonmasters mentioned in Vane Library include also the 'Gold and Silver Sisters Asty and Liza' (these were changed to Alicia and Lina/Laticia in the remake). "Heroes and Dragonmasters | Among the Dragonmasters of history stand out a few of notable popularity. Cyclone Zeon, Iron Fist Loka... the Gold and Silver Sisters Asty and Liza, one of the Four Heroes who fought the Black Dragon, Dyne, and... the last Dragonmaster, Alex..."

1) EB_E_0796.jpg EB_E_0797.jpg EB_J_456.jpg EB_J_457.jpg EB_J_458.jpg EB_J_459.jpg
E: Vane Library book is on killing Barney.
J: Vane Library book is about the first Dragonmaster, Dragonmaster Louie. "History of Dragonmasters | Together with the Goddess Althena, the first Dragonmaster came to this land from the Blue Star, Dragonmaster Louie. His first step is still left somewhere on this land..." - "Whoa... We should go look for that one day, Hiro. I'd like to see it..."

1) EB_E_1373.jpg EB_J_761.jpg
E: Transport pads are starfleet-like symbols.
J: Transport pads are pentagrams.

1) EB_E_1683.jpg EB_E_1684.jpg EB_J_857.jpg
E: Reference in Vane Library to Meryod having burned down.
J: No mention of Meryod, no mention of rednecks. "It looks like the worldwide Althena's Cult was working to revive Zophar."

1) EB_E_1774.jpg EB_E_1775.jpg EB_E_1776.jpg EB_E_1777.jpg EB_E_1778.jpg EB_E_1779.jpg EB_E_1780.jpg EB_E_1781.jpg EB_E_1782.jpg EB_E_1783.jpg EB_E_1784.jpg EB_E_1785.jpg EB_E_1786.jpg EB_E_1787.jpg EB_J_884.jpg EB_J_885.jpg EB_J_886.jpg EB_J_887.jpg EB_J_888.jpg EB_J_889.jpg EB_J_890.jpg EB_J_891.jpg EB_J_892.jpg EB_J_893.jpg
E: Luna's letter to Hiro at the end sounds like Luna knew about Hiro from the beginning.
J: Luna's letter to Hiro at the end never mentions Hiro by name, but is addressed to a 'still-unseen person'. "...My name is Luna. This letter is meant for a person I still have not seen, in the distant future. I once was known as the Goddess Althena. But, I chose life as a human, and desired happiness as a human. But if I have one regret, that is... Lucia... Lucia is all alone. I wish for her to live not just for the Blue Star... but to live for herself... I want to show Lucia the warmth, kindness, and greatness of humanity. But, I can no longer do that. That is why... I must leave that to you, who I have not seen. Somehow, for Lucia..."

1) EB_E_1928.jpg EB_E_1929.jpg EB_E_1930.jpg EB_E_1931.jpg EB_J_941.jpg EB_J_942.jpg EB_J_943.jpg EB_J_944.jpg
E: Ghaleon was worried about Hiro and Lucia falling in love.
J: Ghaleon said that Hiro and Lucia falling in love would 'cause miracles'. "Ghaleon was worried about a boy named Hiro and a girl named Lucia. If the boy has feelings for the girl, then miracles can happen, but... that might not be enough! He was very said about it." - "Ghaleon... all along he know that Lucia..."

1) EB_E_2012.jpg EB_J_967.jpg EB_J_968.jpg
E: Throughout the game, Jean is unforgiving of Lunn.
J: Jean seems to forgive Lunn. "I'm sure you can [retrain yourself], teacher... But I believe in what Hiro is accomplishing..."

2) EB_E_0028.jpg EB_J_026.jpg
E: Althena created the priesthood to govern in her absence.
J: Althena created Althena's Cult when she was reborn. Note that the same word [althena-shindan] is translated usually as 'Althena's Cult', but occasionally as 'Althena's Guard' instead. "But, to govern this world, Althena was reborn and created Althena's Cult!"

2) EB_E_0094.jpg EB_E_0095.jpg EB_J_077.jpg
E: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but not as blunt as in Japanese version throughout the game.
J: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but a lot more blunt with being Hiro's lover / girlfriend / future bride throughout the game. "I'm Ruby! And I'm Hiro's girlfriend!"

2) EB_E_0117.jpg EB_E_0118.jpg EB_J_092.jpg EB_J_093.jpg
E: Leo doesn't refer to the Destroyer as Lucia, directly, until you reach Dalton.
J: Leo refers to the Destroyer as the Destroyer Lucia from the beginning. "The Destroyer Lucia!" - "Destroyer... Lucia!? But then that means..."

2) EB_E_0122.jpg EB_E_0123.jpg EB_J_096.jpg EB_J_097.jpg
E: Ruby tricks Leo into running into the Blue Spire.
J: Hiro tricks Leo into running into the Blue Spire. "Well then! The Destroyer Lucia must be in the tower!!" - "Leo totally believed you, Hiro. Cool!"

2) EB_E_0180.jpg EB_J_136.jpg
E: The mayor of Larpa charges you 500S for the information Lucia got.
J: The mayor of Larpa charges you 30S for the information Lucia got.

2) EB_E_0209.jpg EB_E_0210.jpg EB_J_157.jpg EB_J_158.jpg
E: The guards on the Destiny have slightly different lines.
J: The guards on the Destiny have the same lines. "Who are you? I won't let you pass!"

2) EB_E_0217.jpg EB_E_0218.jpg EB_E_0219.jpg EB_J_164.jpg EB_J_165.jpg EB_J_166.jpg
E: Leo considers talking with Lucia and perhaps staying her execution.
J: Leo rejects the idea of talking with Lucia and changing Althena's orders. "...I know what you said, but why can't se just take that girl to meet with the Goddess Althena, Lord Leo?" - "I have certainly considered that. But, I cannot freely change the Goddess Althena's orders just by my own judgment..."

2) EB_E_0223.jpg EB_J_169.jpg EB_J_170.jpg EB_J_171.jpg
E: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but not as blunt as in Japanese version throughout the game.
J: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but a lot more jealous of Lucia throughout the game. "That's right! ...no, Hiro, you couldn't be interested in Lucia!? No!! Lucia, listen up! I'm the one who's gonna become Hiro's bride."

2) EB_E_0275.jpg EB_E_0276.jpg EB_E_0277.jpg EB_J_207.jpg
E: The bird pulling the caravan can talk.
J: The bird pulling the caravan doesn't talk.

2) EB_E_0292.jpg EB_E_0293.jpg EB_E_0294.jpg EB_E_0295.jpg EB_E_0296.jpg EB_J_208.jpg
E: Jean only asks Hiro and the others to show her to the secret passage in the forest to help the others.
J: Jean mentions how she swore never to use karate again, but implies that she may have to. "I swore never to use karate again... But, if I want to help my friends..."

2) EB_E_0461.jpg EB_E_0462.jpg EB_E_0463.jpg EB_E_0464.jpg EB_J_271.jpg EB_J_272.jpg EB_J_273.jpg
E: Ghaleon made the garden for the fairies/pixies because the world will be destroyed soon.
J: Ghaleon made the garden for the fairies/pixies because they're almost extinct. "We are almost extinct, Ghaleon said. Ghaleon brought us to this place. That's why [we say] Ghaleon helped the pixies <3." - "He helped these pixies...? Does this mean Ghaleon isn't such a bad guy?"

2) EB_E_0497.jpg EB_E_0498.jpg EB_E_0499.jpg EB_E_0500.jpg EB_J_286.jpg
E: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is Ronfar's literal grandfather.
J: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is no one in particular. Ronfar calls him 'gramps' as in a colloquial reference to an old man, not as his literal grandfather. "Hey, gramps, we can hear you from the bottom of the earth. Knock it off with that gloomy voice."

2) EB_E_0530.jpg EB_E_0531.jpg EB_E_0532.jpg EB_J_300.jpg EB_J_301.jpg
E: The father of the current Ramus is named Grant.
J: Ramus' grandfather is also named Ramus; no one mentions another name for him. "When I was a child, Ramus' store was many times bigger than it is now. But the current young owner's old man [implies grandfather] was worthless..."

2) EB_E_0538.jpg EB_E_0539.jpg EB_E_0540.jpg EB_E_0541.jpg EB_J_305.jpg
E: None of the kids in Meribia mention Nall's name; it's not until you reach Taben's Peak that you hear of Nall.
J: The kids in Meribia occasionally mention Nall by name. "I have to do this for my dear Nall, and my close friends... Sniff, sniff..."

2) EB_E_0553.jpg EB_E_0554.jpg EB_J_312.jpg EB_J_313.jpg
E: Every 10th boy in Ramus' family is named Ramus.
J: All the owners of Ramus' store are named Ramus. "He calls Ramus 'junior' because the owners of Ramus' store are all named Ramus. The grandfather is Ramus, and so his grandson is called Ramus Junior."

2) EB_E_0609.jpg EB_J_334.jpg
E: Lucia can't stand being around the children at Taben's Peak at first.
J: Lucia is just confused around the children at Taben's Peak at first. "Playing with children... I don't know how I'm supposed to do this... I'm worried..."

2) EB_E_0651.jpg EB_E_0652.jpg EB_E_0653.jpg EB_J_355.jpg EB_J_356.jpg EB_J_357.jpg
E: Nall mentions the White Dragon Wings having lost a bit of power in the last half-century.
J: Nall doesn't mention any loss-in-power in the White Dragon Wings. "These White Dragon Wings have the power to return you to the surface from the back of a cave. You can use it however many times you'd like. Heh, convenient, isn't it? Although, there are places where the ground's power is distorted and you can't use them."

2) EB_E_0684.jpg EB_E_0685.jpg EB_J_372.jpg
E: Girl in Vane is looking for its 'spank shops'.
J: Girl in Vane likes the romantic feeling of Vane's history. "The Magic Guild from a forgotten era... Oh how romantic!"

2) EB_E_0710.jpg EB_E_0711.jpg EB_E_0712.jpg EB_E_0713.jpg EB_E_0714.jpg EB_J_386.jpg EB_J_387.jpg EB_J_388.jpg EB_J_389.jpg EB_J_390.jpg
E: Lemina implies Nash and Mia's romantic involvement in history, and addresses her diary as 'Lee Lee'.
J: No mention of Nash and Mia in Lemina's diary, and no name for her diary. "There isn't a single newcomer, and there's no power [from the Guild] just because it's old... I hate how the Magic Guild is this way! Of course I'll work hard to restore the glory of long ago, and if I do that, then mother will be pleased. Until then, I'll keep saving without wasting anything, and someday... I'll be able to close the big hole in the mansion roof and stop the rain!"

2) EB_E_0738.jpg EB_E_0739.jpg EB_E_0740.jpg EB_J_400.jpg
E: Guy who sounds like he's from English TSS's Meryod is in the Vane Library.
J: No mention of Meryod, no mention of rednecks. "I'm not that smart, so I fall asleep with books that have a lot of words, but..."

2) EB_E_0779.jpg EB_E_0780.jpg EB_E_0781.jpg EB_J_438.jpg EB_J_439.jpg
E: Vane Library book mentions Love Potion #9.
J: Vane Library book mentions cooking recipes. "Hey, Hiro, I want to try some of the Sand Shark Sashimi! [lit. Dolphin Face Sashimi] Hey, why do you look so disgusted, Hiro?"

2) EB_E_0785.jpg EB_E_0786.jpg EB_E_0787.jpg EB_J_443.jpg EB_J_444.jpg EB_J_445.jpg EB_J_446.jpg
E: Vane Library book theorizes the lights in the sky are visitors from the Blue Star.
J: Vane Library book theorizes about a Blue Star-Flying Saucer link. "The Secret of the Blue Star!? | I know it! On the Blue Star are takeoff points for mysterious flying saucers! And, could that be where they are looking down on us!? More in the next issue!!!" - "Huh...?"

2) EB_E_0803.jpg EB_E_0804.jpg EB_E_0805.jpg EB_J_462.jpg EB_J_463.jpg EB_J_464.jpg EB_J_465.jpg
E: Vane Library book is about the events preceding Vane's fall.
J: Vane Library book is about the general history of the Magic Guild, even up to Lemina. "Story of the Magic Guild | The Magic City of Vane, and the Magic Guild. Their glory and history." - "All the events that occured in the Magic Guild are written in this book. In the near future, even my name, Lemina, will be written in it as the Premier who restored the Magic Guild <3."

2) EB_E_0948.jpg EB_J_548.jpg
E: Lucia doesn't sense Althena's presence when you reach Pentagulia.
J: Lucia does sense Althena's power when you reach Pentagulia. "Definitely, I feel Althena's Power coming from this city..."

2) EB_E_1070.jpg EB_E_1071.jpg EB_E_1072.jpg EB_J_621.jpg EB_J_622.jpg EB_J_623.jpg
E: Jean figures out that Lunn is the leader of the Blue Dragon Cult, although at the last second.
J: Lunn tells Jean herself that he is the leader of the Blue Dragon Cult. "You are still the obedient child, never doubting anything, just like long ago. You still do not know, Jean. The Masked Man you seek is me!" - "It's... you, Lunn!? You must be joking..."

2) EB_E_1100.jpg EB_E_1101.jpg EB_E_1102.jpg EB_J_629.jpg EB_J_630.jpg EB_J_631.jpg
E: Ronfar says that both Leo and Mauri's lives are in danger if the Cult knew about him helping them.
J: Ronfar only says that Leo swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. "Leo is a knight who swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. If he didn't disguise himself like that, then he would have lost his position. That guy's pretty clumsy. But, he has good in him..."

2) EB_E_1219.jpg EB_E_1220.jpg EB_J_699.jpg
E: One guy in Horam complains about being ejected from the Fat Boy Dojo.
J: One guy in Horam talks about how Horam has been a town of martial arts since long ago. "The martial arts have thrived in the town of Horam since long ago..."

2) EB_E_1299.jpg EB_E_1300.jpg EB_J_730.jpg EB_J_731.jpg
E: The Blue Dragon asks if Lucia's arrival means Althena has left.
J: The Blue Dragon greets Lucia as the one who controls the Blue Star, and mentions the Dragons' role in keeping the world in balance. "Ah, so it is you, Lucia, the one who controls the Blue Star, who has revived me... But... we Dragons have the duty to protect the balance of this world."

2) EB_E_1323.jpg EB_E_1324.jpg EB_E_1325.jpg EB_J_745.jpg EB_J_746.jpg
E: The old man near Zaback's entrance is Lemina's literal grandfather.
J: The old man near Zaback's entrance is no one in particular. Lemina calls him 'grandfather', but this isn't literal. "Grandpa..." - "Ah, please do not worry about me, young girl. You are too kind."

2) EB_E_1400.jpg EB_E_1401.jpg EB_E_1402.jpg EB_E_1403.jpg EB_E_1404.jpg EB_E_1405.jpg EB_J_771.jpg EB_J_772.jpg
E: The Black Dragon talks about Althena's Plan.
J: The Black Dragon only talks about what Althena dreamed of, and specifies Lucia's conflict as part of that dream. "The pain you feal in your heart is precisely the key to realizing the dream that Althena desired." - "The dream that... Althena desired... What are you talking about, Black Dragon? I don't understand."

2) EB_E_1510.jpg EB_E_1511.jpg EB_J_806.jpg EB_J_807.jpg
E: Ghaleon suggests Lucia give him the secret of the Blue Spire's true power.
J: Ghaleon only indicates that he knows about the Blue Spire's true power. "You can't save Hiro now. But if that is your one wish, then the Blue Spire's true power..." - "...!? The Blue Spire's true power? Ghaleon, how do you know about that!?"

2) EB_E_1545.jpg EB_E_1546.jpg EB_E_1547.jpg EB_E_1548.jpg EB_J_813.jpg EB_J_814.jpg EB_J_815.jpg
E: Inside the Blue Spire, Lucia says that restoring the Blue Star is the reason for her being.
J: Inside the Blue Spire, Lucia says that restoring the Blue Star is the reason for Lunar's existence. "...This is gathering the world's magic power to restore the cold Blue Star. That is the Blue Spire's purpose... and... the reason for this world's existence..." - "...what!? You mean that Lunar only exists for the Blue Star?"

2) EB_E_1956.jpg EB_E_1957.jpg EB_E_1958.jpg
E: Jean admits to being 'a little lovesick'.
J: Nothing about Jean being 'lovesick'.

2) EB_E_1980.jpg EB_E_1981.jpg EB_E_1982.jpg EB_J_957.jpg
E: Leo asks to look out for his 'Lords of Valor' beefcake calendar when it comes out.
J: Leo is humble about his pursuit to justice. "But, I still need to learn much in order to truly understand the meaning of justice..."

3) EB_E_0000.jpg EB_J_000.jpg
E: Althena not referred to as goddess of anything in particular in intro.
J: Althena referred to as Goddess of Creation in intro. "Long, long ago, the Goddess of Creation, Althena, blessed the land of death with great magic power and turned it into a land abundant with green."

3) EB_E_0062.jpg EB_E_0063.jpg EB_J_052.jpg EB_J_053.jpg
E: Althena is reborn every few hundred years.
J: Althena used to be reborn many centuries ago. "Many hundreds of years ago... The Goddess of Love and Beauty, Althena, would be reborn [periodically]. When she was reborn, she would guide the world and its people, and govern everything."

3) EB_E_0439.jpg EB_J_257.jpg
E: Lucia says something about 'his former self' after viewing the record at the ruins.
J: Lucia only comments on the image that looked like Althena after viewing the ruins' record. "That figure... could it be Althena...!? What does this mean?"

3) EB_E_0761.jpg EB_E_0762.jpg EB_E_0763.jpg EB_J_419.jpg EB_J_420.jpg EB_J_421.jpg
E: Vane Library book has Alex marrying Luna.
J: No mention of Alex marrying Luna in Vane Library. "The Last Dragonmaster | Long, long ago, a boy named Alex was born. He dreamed of becoming Dragonmaster, and wanting to set off on a journey, one day, went to the White Dragon Cave..."

3) EB_E_0826.jpg EB_E_0827.jpg EB_J_472.jpg
E: The beads in Azado cost 1000S.
J: The beads in Azado cost 1000S and are effective for 10 days. "To buy the beads, you need to pay 1000S every 10 days."

3) EB_E_0921.jpg EB_E_0922.jpg EB_E_0923.jpg EB_J_531.jpg EB_J_532.jpg
E: The menu on the Destiny sounds generally unappetizing.
J: The menu on the Destiny is based on the random-battle monsters. "Morning: Roast Fatal Hopper. Noon: Slime. Night: Escargot Meunière. If we fight a Buzzard Beak then we might have steak tonight. Dining Corps."

3) EB_E_1474.jpg EB_E_1475.jpg EB_J_788.jpg EB_J_789.jpg
E: The man at Raculi's entrance is Ronfar's [other] grandfather.
J: The man at Raculi's entrance may be Ronfar's literal grandfather, or just another old man. "Eh...? You're that brat Ronfar! You look well." - "So you remember me. Great, old man."

3) EB_E_1677.jpg EB_E_1678.jpg EB_E_1679.jpg EB_J_852.jpg
E: Jean says that the fight with Zophar is the last time she'll use Blue Dragon Karate.
J: Jean says that this will be the last fight in which she intends on using martial arts. "I intend for this to be the last fight of Jean the martial artist..."

3) EB_E_2045.jpg EB_E_2046.jpg EB_J_979.jpg
E: Nall mentions that the Star Dragon guards the way between Lunar and the Blue Star.
J: Nall adds that the Star Dragon is unlike the Four Dragons. "The Star Dragon! He's not like the other Dragons. He has the power to connect star with star."

3) EB_E_2192.jpg EB_E_2193.jpg EB_E_2194.jpg EB_E_2195.jpg EB_J_A20.jpg EB_J_A21.jpg EB_J_A22.jpg EB_J_A23.jpg EB_J_A24.jpg EB_J_A25.jpg
E: The Star Dragon says there are still 'many years' left until the Blue Star can be visited again.
J: The Star Dragon implies that the time to visit the Blue Star is still far away. "Hm hm hm... You do not know me, Red Dragon? I am... the Star Dragon... I control the bridge which ties the Blue Star to Lunar... The Blue Star that you seek is still in the midst of a long slumber for its rebirth... It is still a long time until the day when it is revived... I cannot allow anyone to set foot on the Blue Star [until then]..."

4) EB_E_0106.jpg EB_J_084.jpg
E: The group behind the [false] Althena is named Althena's Cult.
J: The group behind the [false] Althena is named, more literally, 'Althena's Divine Party'--'Althena-shindan'. Note that this same word is usually translated as 'Althena's Cult', but in a few places is also translated as 'priesthood' or 'Althena's Guard'.

4) EB_E_0145.jpg EB_E_0146.jpg EB_J_114.jpg EB_J_115.jpg
E: Leo signed his letter to Ronfar as 'LM'.
J: Leo signed his letter to Ronfar only as 'Your Friend'. "Ronfar, I came by to speak with you, but it seems you are out... I will return after my work. Your friend."

4) EB_E_0193.jpg EB_E_0194.jpg EB_E_0195.jpg EB_E_0196.jpg EB_J_144.jpg EB_J_145.jpg
E: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Saint Lunn, Grand Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri.
J: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Blue Karate-Master Lunn [rainasu], Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri. Karate-Master is 'kensei', literally 'holy fist'.

4) EB_E_0236.jpg EB_J_180.jpg
E: Name of the forest north of Dalton is the Illusion Woods.
J: Name of the forest north of Dalton is the 'Lance Woods'.

4) EB_E_0325.jpg EB_J_217.jpg
E: North of Takkar is Secret Room #2.
J: North of Takkar is 'Bandit Hideout'

4) EB_E_0326.jpg EB_J_218.jpg
E: Major healing item is called Dover Nut.
J: Major healing item is called Healing Seed.

4) EB_E_0327.jpg EB_J_220.jpg
E: The village of inns is called Takkar Village.
J: The village of inns is called Temis [temisu] Village

4) EB_E_0366.jpg EB_J_229.jpg
E: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Phantom Sentry.
J: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Zeke the Risen [jiiku za raizun].

4) EB_E_0660.jpg EB_J_361.jpg
E: Lemina calls herself 'Junior Premier'.
J: Lemina never uses anything corresponding to 'Junior' when she refers to herself as the 'Premier' of the guild. "What are you trying to hide? I am Lemina, Premier of the Magic Guild."

4) EB_E_0998.jpg EB_J_586.jpg
E: The Masked White Knight is named Mystere!
J: The Masked White Knight does not have a name! "I... I am not Leo! I am... I am... yes... You may call me the Masked White Knight."

4) EB_E_1185.jpg EB_E_1186.jpg EB_J_677.jpg
E: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to as 'Dragon Aura'.
J: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to only as 'Power of Dragon'. "Each of the sealed Dragon Powers is guarded by one of Althena's Cult's Four Heroes."

4) EB_E_1203.jpg EB_J_689.jpg
E: The Dragonship is called the Destiny.
J: The Dragonship is called the Valgan.

4) EB_E_1217.jpg EB_E_1218.jpg EB_J_697.jpg EB_J_698.jpg
E: The area south of Horam is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area south of Horam is called the Dix Mountainous Area. The 'Marius Zone' from the first Lunar game was called something different. "This is the Martial Arts Town of Horam. This is the Westernmost town in West Katarina. South of West Katarina is the Dix Mountainous Area..."

4) EB_E_1340.jpg EB_E_1341.jpg EB_E_1342.jpg EB_J_753.jpg
E: The area around Zaback is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area around Zaback is called the Dix Mountainous Area. "There are places where treasure lies around the Dix Mountainous Area here and the Minea Sea to the east."

4) EB_E_1440.jpg EB_J_779.jpg
E: The Tears of Althena in Serak Palace are first referred to as the Aura of Althena, although they're referred to as the Tears of Althena everywhere else.
J: The Tears of Althena in Serak Palace are always referred to as Althena's Tears. "...Ronfar, do the Tears of Althena really exist?"

4) EB_E_1571.jpg EB_J_823.jpg
E: Item in Goddess' Tower called Immortal Bow.
J: Item in Goddess' Tower called 'God Gun'.

4) EB_E_1742.jpg EB_J_876.jpg
E: Item in Zophar's Keep called Angel Armor.
J: Item in Zophar's Keep called Dragon Angel Armor.

4) EB_E_1864.jpg EB_J_918.jpg
E: Epilogue is called the Epilogue when you restore the save.
J: Epilogue is called 'Hiro's Home' when you restore the save.

4) EB_E_2040.jpg EB_J_976.jpg
E: Added in 'Legendary' when you get the Sword of Althena from Nall.
J: When you get the Sword of Althena, it's only called the Sword of Althena.

4) EB_E_2139.jpg EB_J_997.jpg
E: Find Lucia's Tear at Dragon's Nest.
J: Find Devil's Tear at Dragon's Next.

4) EB_E_2151.jpg EB_J_A03.jpg
E: Fight Phantom Sentry in the Sunken Tower (same as at Bandit's Butte).
J: Fight Zeke the Risen [jiiku za raizun] in the Sunken Tower (same as at Bandit's Butte).

5) EB_E_0011.jpg EB_E_0012.jpg EB_J_011.jpg EB_J_012.jpg
E: Saving requires MEXP.
J: Saving does not require MEXP.

5) EB_E_2004.jpg EB_J_962.jpg
E: Ronfar's topmost group-healing spell is 45MP (22MP with ring). Icons for single and group healing spells are switched.
J: Ronfar's topmost group-healing spell is 17MP. Icons for single and group healing spells are switched.

5) EB_E_2160.jpg EB_J_A09.jpg
E: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower isn't equippable, only usable in battle.
J: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower can be equipped on Jean, and is usable in battle.

6) EB_E_0177.jpg EB_J_131.jpg
E: Guy was taking a leak in the ally while Lucia saw.
J: Guy was taking a leak in the ally while Lucia saw.

6) EB_E_1501.jpg EB_E_1502.jpg EB_E_1503.jpg EB_E_1504.jpg EB_J_799.jpg EB_J_800.jpg EB_J_801.jpg
E: Ghaleon means to attack Lucia, when Hiro gets in the way.
J: Ghaleon means to attack Lucia, when Hiro gets in the way. "And after that, I will recreate this world the way it should be, thanks to my god Zophar. And the ones I should destroy shall be the Goddess Althena, and... you, Lucia!"
~Kizyr
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Postby Alunissage » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:41 am

Wow, tons to say here. Expect a long response from me laterl

As a side note, several spell costs and item prices were changed, as documented in JWL's list. Although it makes sense to document that one of Ronfar's in this list since it involves a change of icon, I think it'll be most efficient to show other numerical differences as a table. (He also found at least one checkpoint had been changed, but I shudder at the thought of trying to find and compare all of those.)

Off the top of my head, two or three differences that come to mind are music. The Star Dragon Tower, obviously, and also a couple other changes JWL documented. I think I have the sound clips for those too.

Just wait until we get to the SCD/remake differences! :P

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:29 am

these are some pretty epic threads.

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Postby Alunissage » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:05 am

Okay, this is really long, but I did keep myself from commenting on every single item.

1) EB_E_0050.jpg EB_E_0051.jpg EB_E_0052.jpg EB_J_043.jpg EB_J_044.jpg EB_J_045.jpg
E: Gwyn's book talks about a shape-shifting dragon.
J: There is no book talking about a shape-shifting dragon. "Cont'd - The lost original home ~Legend of the Blue Star~ | People look up at the Blue Star with eyes full of longing and nostalgia, but... The Blue Star does not respond. It only shines beautifully."

I like this, though I'm not sure I'd call it a major change. I thought the shape-shifting part of Nall's character was dumb enough even without one of the books going along with it.

1) EB_E_0169.jpg EB_E_0170.jpg EB_E_0171.jpg EB_J_127.jpg EB_J_128.jpg
E: Ronfar is nondescript about how long ago the ordeal with Mauri was.
J: Ronfar says that the ordeal with Mauri was three years ago. "...strange! What is this!? Why has the curse gotten stronger? Three years ago... when Mauri fell ill, I..."

That makes his putative age of 17 even more ridiculous, if that's possible.

1) EB_E_0249.jpg EB_E_0250.jpg EB_E_0251.jpg EB_E_0252.jpg EB_E_0253.jpg EB_E_0254.jpg EB_J_187.jpg EB_J_188.jpg EB_J_189.jpg EB_J_190.jpg
E: Jean never told anyone what she was running from; she was only found in karate gear.
J: Jean only didn't tell anyone what happened when she was found (see items below). "Jean was lying down with bruises all over her body when we found and helped her. She was afraid of something, and wouldn't say what. She looked like she was once a martial artist, but she doesn't use martial arts anymore..."

I guess you mean that she didn't tell the caravan what she was running from at the time they found her but did tell them later. It took me a while to parse that, though.

1) EB_E_0302.jpg EB_J_209.jpg
E: Plantella is covered with a few more vines.
J: Plantella is not fully covered.

I'd hazard a guess that this was also Sega of America's requirement, but don't know.

1) EB_E_0303.jpg EB_E_0304.jpg EB_E_0305.jpg EB_J_210.jpg EB_J_211.jpg
E: Jean says her combat is using dance skills.
J: Jean says her combat is using karate once again, but the difference is that she uses it to help instead of harm. "This is the first time that I thought I could help people with the power of karate... The power that I gained is from the Black Karate of Death, but, depending on how it's used, it can be used to help people..."

Makes sense if the skills have already been mentioned to the caravan and thus to the player, but given that the name of that set of magic is "Dance" and she uses her fans to attack, it's more logical for her to say that she adapted her dance moves to combat, as in the E version. (This reminds me that I've never levelled up Dance enough to get Dopple Dance before getting her Karate skills, and I really should to see what it looks like.)

1) EB_E_0314.jpg EB_E_0315.jpg EB_J_214.jpg
E: No indication is given as to when Jean joined the caravan. Fortuneteller wasn't said to be involved in finding Jean.
J: Jean joined the caravan one year ago, based on the help of the fortuneteller. "One year ago, based on your prediction, you found me beaten..."

I played this recently enough that I should remember, but is there a caravan fortune-teller in the E game?

1) EB_E_0749.jpg EB_E_0750.jpg EB_E_0751.jpg EB_E_0752.jpg EB_J_408.jpg EB_J_409.jpg EB_J_410.jpg EB_J_411.jpg
E: Dragonmasters mentioned in Vane Library: Cyclone Zeon, Iron Fist Loka, Dyne, Alex.
J: Dragonmasters mentioned in Vane Library include also the 'Gold and Silver Sisters Asty and Liza' (these were changed to Alicia and Lina/Laticia in the remake). "Heroes and Dragonmasters | Among the Dragonmasters of history stand out a few of notable popularity. Cyclone Zeon, Iron Fist Loka... the Gold and Silver Sisters Asty and Liza, one of the Four Heroes who fought the Black Dragon, Dyne, and... the last Dragonmaster, Alex..."

Strange, I wonder why that would be shortened. I'd consider this important, with the sister Dragonmasters mentioned this early on.

1) EB_E_0796.jpg EB_E_0797.jpg EB_J_456.jpg EB_J_457.jpg EB_J_458.jpg EB_J_459.jpg
E: Vane Library book is on killing Barney.
J: Vane Library book is about the first Dragonmaster, Dragonmaster Louie. "History of Dragonmasters | Together with the Goddess Althena, the first Dragonmaster came to this land from the Blue Star, Dragonmaster Louie. His first step is still left somewhere on this land..." - "Whoa... We should go look for that one day, Hiro. I'd like to see it..."

Isn't the first dragonmaster Louie mentioned in the E game, or is it only the remake? And I do find it amusing that the Neil/Louie error (if it is one) was made on the J side and not some weird WD joke or mistake. Will want to cross-reference to Hasukawa's interview on that. It's also interesting phrasing, Does that imply that it was also Althena's first visit to Lunar, or just that Louie's first visit was made in her company (as one would expect since it sounds like no humans would have gone there without her)? If the former, that would open up some interesting thoughts about Althena having a Dragonmaster before the exodus and even before she transformed the land -- that is, before she'd need one, apparently. While that would resolve the apparent conflict between the first dragonmaster transforming the world as noted in TSS and the EB prologue that I noted in the other thread, it does raise the question of why she created (anointed?) a dragonmaster while the Blue Star was still populated. Unless it's more like a garden of Eden thing... she transformed part of Lunar on her own before "time and circumstance" forced her to turn her vacation home over to humans, and one of those humans helped her transformed the rest of it, or enough of the rest of it.


1) EB_E_1683.jpg EB_E_1684.jpg EB_J_857.jpg
E: Reference in Vane Library to Meryod having burned down.
J: No mention of Meryod, no mention of rednecks. "It looks like the worldwide Althena's Cult was working to revive Zophar."

When does this occur in the game? I know the pics will make it clear, but is a person saying this or a book? Either way, it would be pretty strange if that line occurs when you first go to Vane, and stranger still if it's a book whose text changes to this later.

1) EB_E_1774.jpg
E: Luna's letter to Hiro at the end sounds like Luna knew about Hiro from the beginning.
J: Luna's letter to Hiro at the end never mentions Hiro by name, but is addressed to a 'still-unseen person'. "...My name is Luna. This letter is meant for a person I still have not seen, in the distant future. I once was known as the Goddess Althena. But, I chose life as a human, and desired happiness as a human. But if I have one regret, that is... Lucia... Lucia is all alone. I wish for her to live not just for the Blue Star... but to live for herself... I want to show Lucia the warmth, kindness, and greatness of humanity. But, I can no longer do that. That is why... I must leave that to you, who I have not seen. Somehow, for Lucia..."

I much prefer the latter. Since Althena is not an omniscient/omnipotent type of deity, it irritated me no end that she would have foreseen his actual name -- if she did, why not mention it in her video message to Lucia and make that much more of an impact?

1) EB_E_1928.jpg EB_E_1929.jpg EB_E_1930.jpg EB_E_1931.jpg EB_J_941.jpg EB_J_942.jpg EB_J_943.jpg EB_J_944.jpg
E: Ghaleon was worried about Hiro and Lucia falling in love.
J: Ghaleon said that Hiro and Lucia falling in love would 'cause miracles'. "Ghaleon was worried about a boy named Hiro and a girl named Lucia. If the boy has feelings for the girl, then miracles can happen, but... that might not be enough! He was very said about it." - "Ghaleon... all along he know that Lucia..."

said -> sad, I presume. That <strike>sad</strike> said, I think either of these makes sense, really. Hiro and Lucia falling in love makes Lucia more human, but also hands Zophar the key to her manipulation

1) EB_E_2012.jpg EB_J_967.jpg EB_J_968.jpg
E: Throughout the game, Jean is unforgiving of Lunn.
J: Jean seems to forgive Lunn. "I'm sure you can [retrain yourself], teacher... But I believe in what Hiro is accomplishing..."

Urgh. I'm totally in favor of her staying unforgiving and suspicious. The J line sounds like he was just misguided, rather than the sadistic and probably sexually abusive bastard he's implied to be.

2) EB_E_0028.jpg EB_J_026.jpg
E: Althena created the priesthood to govern in her absence.
J: Althena created Althena's Cult when she was reborn. Note that the same word [althena-shindan] is translated usually as 'Althena's Cult', but occasionally as 'Althena's Guard' instead. "But, to govern this world, Althena was reborn and created Althena's Cult!"

The J reading makes more sense, because clearly in the EB time she is not (known to be) absent, and the Cult is a construction to further the revival of the being whose minion Fake Althena is. TSS Althena had a priesthood, but they weren't governing and bore no resemblance to the Cult... another reminder of the annoying SSS changes, grumble mumble.

2) EB_E_0117.jpg EB_E_0118.jpg EB_J_092.jpg EB_J_093.jpg
E: Leo doesn't refer to the Destroyer as Lucia, directly, until you reach Dalton.
J: Leo refers to the Destroyer as the Destroyer Lucia from the beginning. "The Destroyer Lucia!" - "Destroyer... Lucia!? But then that means..."

This is interesting. In the demo of EBC, one of the guards in Larpa who prevents you from leaving town refers to Lucia by name, even though her name wasn't mentioned to Leo at the Blue Spire. This was fixed in the final (possibly because I emailed about it), but the origin of the error could be in the Japanese version, if Leo already knows her name in that game as well. Makes more sense if he doesn't know anything about her, since he's so easily conned into running into the tower.

2) EB_E_0122.jpg EB_E_0123.jpg EB_J_096.jpg EB_J_097.jpg
E: Ruby tricks Leo into running into the Blue Spire.
J: Hiro tricks Leo into running into the Blue Spire. "Well then! The Destroyer Lucia must be in the tower!!" - "Leo totally believed you, Hiro. Cool!"

I like this change. Ruby is far from my favorite character, but I'm glad to see her thinking quickly there and defending Lucia. On the other hand, it seems odd that Leo would believe her so easily when he talked down to her when he previously met her.

2) EB_E_0180.jpg EB_J_136.jpg
E: The mayor of Larpa charges you 500S for the information Lucia got.
J: The mayor of Larpa charges you 30S for the information Lucia got.

Do we actually lose this money, or does the dialogue only say we do?

2) EB_E_0217.jpg EB_E_0218.jpg EB_E_0219.jpg EB_J_164.jpg EB_J_165.jpg EB_J_166.jpg
E: Leo considers talking with Lucia and perhaps staying her execution.
J: Leo rejects the idea of talking with Lucia and changing Althena's orders. "...I know what you said, but why can't se just take that girl to meet with the Goddess Althena, Lord Leo?" - "I have certainly considered that. But, I cannot freely change the Goddess Althena's orders just by my own judgment..."

Again, I like this change, making Leo have more actual authority and being less of a lackey. (typo: se -> he)

2) EB_E_0223.jpg EB_J_169.jpg EB_J_170.jpg EB_J_171.jpg
E: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but not as blunt as in Japanese version throughout the game.
J: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but a lot more jealous of Lucia throughout the game. "That's right! ...no, Hiro, you couldn't be interested in Lucia!? No!! Lucia, listen up! I'm the one who's gonna become Hiro's bride."

Don't you have this one twice?

2) EB_E_0275.jpg EB_E_0276.jpg EB_E_0277.jpg EB_J_207.jpg
E: The bird pulling the caravan can talk.
J: The bird pulling the caravan doesn't talk.

Presumably just to make a chocobo joke.

2) EB_E_0292.jpg EB_E_0293.jpg EB_E_0294.jpg EB_E_0295.jpg EB_E_0296.jpg EB_J_208.jpg
E: Jean only asks Hiro and the others to show her to the secret passage in the forest to help the others.
J: Jean mentions how she swore never to use karate again, but implies that she may have to. "I swore never to use karate again... But, if I want to help my friends..."

Goes with the other change of her backstory not being told. After all, she doesn't use karate; she uses her dance moves.

2) EB_E_0461.jpg EB_E_0462.jpg EB_E_0463.jpg EB_E_0464.jpg EB_J_271.jpg EB_J_272.jpg EB_J_273.jpg
E: Ghaleon made the garden for the fairies/pixies because the world will be destroyed soon.
J: Ghaleon made the garden for the fairies/pixies because they're almost extinct. "We are almost extinct, Ghaleon said. Ghaleon brought us to this place. That's why [we say] Ghaleon helped the pixies <3." - "He helped these pixies...? Does this mean Ghaleon isn't such a bad guy?"

As with TSS, it makes one wonder what happened to them in the time between the two games. While this makes more sense with his taking care of them in TSS, it raises the question of how they survived that long if he was important to their survival back then. So this J line may work better with the TSS_E version of his being their captor then.

2) EB_E_0497.jpg EB_E_0498.jpg EB_E_0499.jpg EB_E_0500.jpg EB_J_286.jpg
E: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is Ronfar's literal grandfather.
J: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is no one in particular. Ronfar calls him 'gramps' as in a colloquial reference to an old man, not as his literal grandfather. "Hey, gramps, we can hear you from the bottom of the earth. Knock it off with that gloomy voice."

Yeah, with this and Lemina's "grandfather" in Zaback, I always thought WD was overly literal. Ronfar having a grandfather in Raculi makes more sense, though.

2) EB_E_0530.jpg EB_E_0531.jpg EB_E_0532.jpg EB_J_300.jpg EB_J_301.jpg
E: The father of the current Ramus is named Grant.
J: Ramus' grandfather is also named Ramus; no one mentions another name for him. "When I was a child, Ramus' store was many times bigger than it is now. But the current young owner's old man [implies grandfather] was worthless..."

I'm confused. Are we talking about his father or his grandfather? Because the J line suggests he's talking about himself (if he's the one talking, anyway). Of course, in English one's "old man" refers to one's father. Also, I don't remember a name of "Grant" but maybe I just need to recheck my notes.

2) EB_E_0538.jpg EB_E_0539.jpg EB_E_0540.jpg EB_E_0541.jpg EB_J_305.jpg
E: None of the kids in Meribia mention Nall's name; it's not until you reach Taben's Peak that you hear of Nall.
J: The kids in Meribia occasionally mention Nall by name. "I have to do this for my dear Nall, and my close friends... Sniff, sniff..."

What, kids on the streets of Meribia are doing that? Oh, right, they were sent to suss out the hiding place. But it definitely would dilute the impact of seeing Nall the flying cat if his name's already been given.

2) EB_E_0553.jpg EB_E_0554.jpg EB_J_312.jpg EB_J_313.jpg
E: Every 10th boy in Ramus' family is named Ramus.
J: All the owners of Ramus' store are named Ramus. "He calls Ramus 'junior' because the owners of Ramus' store are all named Ramus. The grandfather is Ramus, and so his grandson is called Ramus Junior."

Which wouldn't make sense unless the father kicked the bucket early. Which maybe he did, since he's not mentioned. It'd make more sense for all of them to be named Ramus than for Hiro and company to just happen to encounter that one generation in ten.

2) EB_E_0651.jpg EB_E_0652.jpg EB_E_0653.jpg EB_J_355.jpg EB_J_356.jpg EB_J_357.jpg
E: Nall mentions the White Dragon Wings having lost a bit of power in the last half-century.
J: Nall doesn't mention any loss-in-power in the White Dragon Wings. "These White Dragon Wings have the power to return you to the surface from the back of a cave. You can use it however many times you'd like. Heh, convenient, isn't it? Although, there are places where the ground's power is distorted and you can't use them."

Given their transporting use in TSS, though, this seems a reasonable change to make to stave off whining fans.

2) EB_E_0710.jpg EB_E_0711.jpg EB_E_0712.jpg EB_E_0713.jpg EB_E_0714.jpg EB_J_386.jpg EB_J_387.jpg EB_J_388.jpg EB_J_389.jpg EB_J_390.jpg
E: Lemina implies Nash and Mia's romantic involvement in history, and addresses her diary as 'Lee Lee'.
J: No mention of Nash and Mia in Lemina's diary, and no name for her diary. "There isn't a single newcomer, and there's no power [from the Guild] just because it's old... I hate how the Magic Guild is this way! Of course I'll work hard to restore the glory of long ago, and if I do that, then mother will be pleased. Until then, I'll keep saving without wasting anything, and someday... I'll be able to close the big hole in the mansion roof and stop the rain!"

I thought she signed her diary Lee Lee. That is, it's her nickname for herself. Of course, she could only save without wasting anything in the J game... :P (And she could control the weather by repairing the roof? Is that like carrying an umbrella so it won't rain?)

2) EB_E_0738.jpg EB_E_0739.jpg EB_E_0740.jpg EB_J_400.jpg
E: Guy who sounds like he's from English TSS's Meryod is in the Vane Library.
J: No mention of Meryod, no mention of rednecks. "I'm not that smart, so I fall asleep with books that have a lot of words, but..."

That would have been irresistible to make into a Meryod hick, though.

2) EB_E_0779.jpg EB_E_0780.jpg EB_E_0781.jpg EB_J_438.jpg EB_J_439.jpg
E: Vane Library book mentions Love Potion #9.
J: Vane Library book mentions cooking recipes. "Hey, Hiro, I want to try some of the Sand Shark Sashimi! [lit. Dolphin Face Sashimi] Hey, why do you look so disgusted, Hiro?"

Aww, I like having the refs to the monsters, here and on the Destiny. It makes the monster-infested parts of the game more integrated into the setting, rather than being solely an obstacle for the player to get through to get to the next story bit.

2) EB_E_0785.jpg EB_E_0786.jpg EB_E_0787.jpg EB_J_443.jpg EB_J_444.jpg EB_J_445.jpg EB_J_446.jpg
E: Vane Library book theorizes the lights in the sky are visitors from the Blue Star.
J: Vane Library book theorizes about a Blue Star-Flying Saucer link. "The Secret of the Blue Star!? | I know it! On the Blue Star are takeoff points for mysterious flying saucers! And, could that be where they are looking down on us!? More in the next issue!!!" - "Huh...?"

A good example for people who think all the oddball humor in the games is WD's doing.

2) EB_E_0803.jpg EB_E_0804.jpg EB_E_0805.jpg EB_J_462.jpg EB_J_463.jpg EB_J_464.jpg EB_J_465.jpg
E: Vane Library book is about the events preceding Vane's fall.
J: Vane Library book is about the general history of the Magic Guild, even up to Lemina. "Story of the Magic Guild | The Magic City of Vane, and the Magic Guild. Their glory and history." - "All the events that occured in the Magic Guild are written in this book. In the near future, even my name, Lemina, will be written in it as the Premier who restored the Magic Guild <3."

I've little to say about this except to point out the typo in 'occurred.'

2) EB_E_0948.jpg EB_J_548.jpg
E: Lucia doesn't sense Althena's presence when you reach Pentagulia.
J: Lucia does sense Althena's power when you reach Pentagulia. "Definitely, I feel Althena's Power coming from this city..."

That's interesting. That line would have helped with the idea that Althena is merely captive in the tower rather than no longer existing, but I suppose it emphasizes the hollow sham that Pentagulia is for her not to sense Althena... not that it needed that emphasis, really.

2) EB_E_1070.jpg EB_E_1071.jpg EB_E_1072.jpg EB_J_621.jpg EB_J_622.jpg EB_J_623.jpg
E: Jean figures out that Lunn is the leader of the Blue Dragon Cult, although at the last second.
J: Lunn tells Jean herself that he is the leader of the Blue Dragon Cult. "You are still the obedient child, never doubting anything, just like long ago. You still do not know, Jean. The Masked Man you seek is me!" - "It's... you, Lunn!? You must be joking..."

Doesn't she only figure it out after he says "Jean, you always were my best student"? That's pretty much telling her straight out. It still seems incongruous to me that she recognizes his voice only then when she's heard it several times before.

2) EB_E_1100.jpg EB_E_1101.jpg EB_E_1102.jpg EB_J_629.jpg EB_J_630.jpg EB_J_631.jpg
E: Ronfar says that both Leo and Mauri's lives are in danger if the Cult knew about him helping them.
J: Ronfar only says that Leo swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. "Leo is a knight who swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. If he didn't disguise himself like that, then he would have lost his position. That guy's pretty clumsy. But, he has good in him..."

Odd that he says Leo's clumsy... we only see that side of him in the epilogue when he's running through Takkar as Mystere. And in Lunatic Parade (the manga).

2) EB_E_1299.jpg EB_E_1300.jpg EB_J_730.jpg EB_J_731.jpg
E: The Blue Dragon asks if Lucia's arrival means Althena has left.
J: The Blue Dragon greets Lucia as the one who controls the Blue Star, and mentions the Dragons' role in keeping the world in balance. "Ah, so it is you, Lucia, the one who controls the Blue Star, who has revived me... But... we Dragons have the duty to protect the balance of this world."

The one who controls the Blue Star? What, by snoozing? I forget, does he actually recognize her as an individual (suggesting a draconic racial memory), or only as a being of the same type as Althena? Though come to think of it -- and I can't believe I never thought of this before -- the current dragons, other than Nall, would never have known Althena. Yet, as your next example shows, they knew what her plan / dream was.

2) EB_E_1400.jpg EB_E_1401.jpg EB_E_1402.jpg EB_E_1403.jpg EB_E_1404.jpg EB_E_1405.jpg EB_J_771.jpg EB_J_772.jpg
E: The Black Dragon talks about Althena's Plan.
J: The Black Dragon only talks about what Althena dreamed of, and specifies Lucia's conflict as part of that dream. "The pain you feal in your heart is precisely the key to realizing the dream that Althena desired." - "The dream that... Althena desired... What are you talking about, Black Dragon? I don't understand."

feal -> feel. Actually, to utterly contradict myself, Althena was clearly around as Althena to make the recording, so she must've taken up her power long enough to do that after the end of TSS. So she would have known the new dragons, even helped/caused them to come into being. And the ending stills of TSS imply that Alex remains a dragonmaster (as does one sketch of him in the I+II artbook), so her decision to become mortal may have been some time later, perhaps when Alex aged. The remakes, of course, screw this up.

2) EB_E_1956.jpg EB_E_1957.jpg EB_E_1958.jpg
E: Jean admits to being 'a little lovesick'.
J: Nothing about Jean being 'lovesick'.

What? When does this happen?

2) EB_E_1980.jpg EB_E_1981.jpg EB_E_1982.jpg EB_J_957.jpg
E: Leo asks to look out for his 'Lords of Valor' beefcake calendar when it comes out.
J: Leo is humble about his pursuit to justice. "But, I still need to learn much in order to truly understand the meaning of justice..."

I prefer the humility, which of course also goes with his actions in Takkar later. I assume this is after he's given Hiro the Destiny, etc?

3) EB_E_0000.jpg EB_J_000.jpg
E: Althena not referred to as goddess of anything in particular in intro.
J: Althena referred to as Goddess of Creation in intro. "Long, long ago, the Goddess of Creation, Althena, blessed the land of death with great magic power and turned it into a land abundant with green."

Makes sense, since Zophar refers to her as "a goddess of creation", and is a lot less insipid than "Goddess of Love and Beauty". Blech.

3) EB_E_0062.jpg EB_E_0063.jpg EB_J_052.jpg EB_J_053.jpg
E: Althena is reborn every few hundred years.
J: Althena used to be reborn many centuries ago. "Many hundreds of years ago... The Goddess of Love and Beauty, Althena, would be reborn [periodically]. When she was reborn, she would guide the world and its people, and govern everything."

This still seems kind of ambiguous. Is "reborn" referring to her goddess state or her human state? 'Cause Luna didn't seem to be the governing type. In other words, which is considered her usual state? It sounded in TSS that being human was the exception and being a goddess in her Tower the default, but then she'd be governing and guiding by default, too. Wouldn't need to be reborn for that, presumably.

3) EB_E_0439.jpg EB_J_257.jpg
E: Lucia says something about 'his former self' after viewing the record at the ruins.
J: Lucia only comments on the image that looked like Althena after viewing the ruins' record. "That figure... could it be Althena...!? What does this mean?"

Makes far more sense in the original. There's no reason Lucia would have any clue whatsoever who Ghaleon was and what he did. The fact that Althena was controlled would be far more significant to her than the one who did the controlling.

3) EB_E_0826.jpg EB_E_0827.jpg EB_J_472.jpg
E: The beads in Azado cost 1000S.
J: The beads in Azado cost 1000S and are effective for 10 days. "To buy the beads, you need to pay 1000S every 10 days."

That'd be a lot of bookkeeping for the priests, who'd have to keep track of how long ago people bought the beads (since they didn't do squat except mark who had paid their protection fees). On the other hand, they'd run out of extortion victims sooner or later if it were a one-time charge.

3) EB_E_1677.jpg EB_E_1678.jpg EB_E_1679.jpg EB_J_852.jpg
E: Jean says that the fight with Zophar is the last time she'll use Blue Dragon Karate.
J: Jean says that this will be the last fight in which she intends on using martial arts. "I intend for this to be the last fight of Jean the martial artist..."

Does she say Blue Dragon Karate, rather than Black Karate of Death or whatever it is? In either case, she clearly doesn't stick to it, since there's an epilogue.

3) EB_E_2045.jpg EB_E_2046.jpg EB_J_979.jpg
E: Nall mentions that the Star Dragon guards the way between Lunar and the Blue Star.
J: Nall adds that the Star Dragon is unlike the Four Dragons. "The Star Dragon! He's not like the other Dragons. He has the power to connect star with star."

The E version works better with G1's and others' conviction that the Phantom Sentry is the same entity, since the latter says that "it is my duty to protect the gateway!" He sounds more like an enabler if his is the power to actually establish the connection rather than just guard it.

4) EB_E_0106.jpg EB_J_084.jpg
E: The group behind the [false] Althena is named Althena's Cult.
J: The group behind the [false] Althena is named, more literally, 'Althena's Divine Party'--'Althena-shindan'. Note that this same word is usually translated as 'Althena's Cult', but in a few places is also translated as 'priesthood' or 'Althena's Guard'.

Sounds like "Chosen" was a better translation as well as a less-creepy sounding one. I mean, who calls their own organization a cult?
4) EB_E_0145.jpg EB_E_0146.jpg EB_J_114.jpg EB_J_115.jpg
E: Leo signed his letter to Ronfar as 'LM'.
J: Leo signed his letter to Ronfar only as 'Your Friend'. "Ronfar, I came by to speak with you, but it seems you are out... I will return after my work. Your friend."

The M has never seemed a big deal to me, but maybe tag this as important since every now and again someone pops up to make a big deal about it.

4) EB_E_0193.jpg EB_E_0194.jpg EB_E_0195.jpg EB_E_0196.jpg EB_J_144.jpg EB_J_145.jpg
E: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Saint Lunn, Grand Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri.
J: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Blue Karate-Master Lunn [rainasu], Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri. Karate-Master is 'kensei', literally 'holy fist'.

I really wonder where the Saint came from. It doesn't make any sense at all

4) EB_E_0325.jpg EB_J_217.jpg
E: North of Takkar is Secret Room #2.
J: North of Takkar is 'Bandit Hideout'

I guess it's more sensible in some regards, but raises an expectation of bandits which you don't actually encounter. But where's Secret Room #1 again?

4) EB_E_0326.jpg EB_J_218.jpg
E: Major healing item is called Dover Nut.
J: Major healing item is called Healing Seed.

So is "Dover" a WD name entirely? I remember in later games we had Healing Gum and Healing Drop. The Seed bit doesn't surprise me since there were Seeds of Vigor in TSS.

4) EB_E_0366.jpg EB_J_229.jpg
E: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Phantom Sentry.
J: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Zeke the Risen [jiiku za raizun].

Wow, that sounds... wimpy. Risen is interesting, perhaps, but Zeke really would lack dignity in English. Isn't he called the Star Sentry in the last fight, though?

4) EB_E_0998.jpg EB_J_586.jpg
E: The Masked White Knight is named Mystere!
J: The Masked White Knight does not have a name! "I... I am not Leo! I am... I am... yes... You may call me the Masked White Knight."

"Masked White Knight" is just a bit too obvious, since it's a visual description. Heh.

4) EB_E_1185.jpg EB_E_1186.jpg EB_J_677.jpg
E: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to as 'Dragon Aura'.
J: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to only as 'Power of Dragon'. "Each of the sealed Dragon Powers is guarded by one of Althena's Cult's Four Heroes."

Doesn't seem a major difference, but I suppose in a way it makes more sense with Ruby's having been stolen while she was still immature, and also with Borgan able to use the Black Dragon one to become powerful.

4) EB_E_1203.jpg EB_J_689.jpg
E: The Dragonship is called the Destiny.
J: The Dragonship is called the Valgan.

This led to a funny near-error in the EBC soundtrack. The beta, you could say, had Mystere's theme ("White Mask Funk") called Fat Man Funk because the Japanese name for the piece was something about the Valgan and it was misread as Borgan.

4) EB_E_1217.jpg EB_E_1218.jpg EB_J_697.jpg EB_J_698.jpg
E: The area south of Horam is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area south of Horam is called the Dix Mountainous Area. The 'Marius Zone' from the first Lunar game was called something different. "This is the Martial Arts Town of Horam. This is the Westernmost town in West Katarina. South of West Katarina is the Dix Mountainous Area..."

I'm confused about what areas and names and games you're referring to here by "called something different". But it does seem a little odd to reuse that "zone" name from TSS in an area which isn't very analogous.

4) EB_E_1440.jpg EB_J_779.jpg
E: The Tears of Althena in Serak Palace are first referred to as the Aura of Althena, although they're referred to as the Tears of Althena everywhere else.
J: The Tears of Althena in Serak Palace are always referred to as Althena's Tears. "...Ronfar, do the Tears of Althena really exist?"

Sounds like that was intended to match the Dragon Auras, then abandoned. It's not really analogous, anyway.

4) EB_E_1571.jpg EB_J_823.jpg
E: Item in Goddess' Tower called Immortal Bow.
J: Item in Goddess' Tower called 'God Gun'.

Bizarre. It's still a bow icon and looks like Lemina is using a crossbow, right? Not that this does anything to change the absurdity of Lemina's two strongest weapons being one floor apart in the same dungeon. I wonder if one of them was supposed to be Ronfar's.

4) EB_E_1864.jpg EB_J_918.jpg
E: Epilogue is called the Epilogue when you restore the save.
J: Epilogue is called 'Hiro's Home' when you restore the save.

An interview talks about that somewhere, that it was intended to be a little bit hidden to the player, kind of a secret ending, so no special tag on the save.

4) EB_E_2139.jpg EB_J_997.jpg
E: Find Lucia's Tear at Dragon's Nest.
J: Find Devil's Tear at Dragon's Next.

The J name makes more sense from a story perspective, but by that point in the game there's not much story left so it's just a cool item to get by any name. Probably not much point in changing this.

5) EB_E_2160.jpg EB_J_A09.jpg
E: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower isn't equippable, only usable in battle.
J: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower can be equipped on Jean, and is usable in battle.

Huh? This is what JWL's list said: "In the original game, the Flame Fist has the stats of "Attack Power +210 *Equip Effect". However, it is still unequippable. WD, in seeing that the weapon could not be equipped, deleted it's stats from the item data so that it's stats read only as "*Equip Effect" in the translation." You were actually able to equip it as a weapon?

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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:36 pm

1) EB_E_0050.jpg EB_E_0051.jpg EB_E_0052.jpg EB_J_043.jpg EB_J_044.jpg EB_J_045.jpg
E: Gwyn's book talks about a shape-shifting dragon.
J: There is no book talking about a shape-shifting dragon. "Cont'd - The lost original home ~Legend of the Blue Star~ | People look up at the Blue Star with eyes full of longing and nostalgia, but... The Blue Star does not respond. It only shines beautifully."

I like this, though I'm not sure I'd call it a major change. I thought the shape-shifting part of Nall's character was dumb enough even without one of the books going along with it.


The shape-shifting made sense, but it didn't seem to fit that it was confined to just one dragon. I put this here because there was a lot of speculation a while back on if this referred to Nall or the Star Dragon.

I guess you mean that she didn't tell the caravan what she was running from at the time they found her but did tell them later. It took me a while to parse that, though.


Yeah, I re-worded that to make it clearer.

1) EB_E_0302.jpg EB_J_209.jpg
E: Plantella is covered with a few more vines.
J: Plantella is not fully covered.

I'd hazard a guess that this was also Sega of America's requirement, but don't know.


Most probably. I mean they did the same thing for the Harpies in Vay.

I played this recently enough that I should remember, but is there a caravan fortune-teller in the E game?


Yeah. Same person, and most of her dialogue is identical.

Isn't the first dragonmaster Louie mentioned in the E game, or is it only the remake? And I do find it amusing that the Neil/Louie error (if it is one) was made on the J side and not some weird WD joke or mistake. Will want to cross-reference to Hasukawa's interview on that. It's also interesting phrasing, Does that imply that it was also Althena's first visit to Lunar, or just that Louie's first visit was made in her company (as one would expect since it sounds like no humans would have gone there without her)? If the former, that would open up some interesting thoughts about Althena having a Dragonmaster before the exodus and even before she transformed the land -- that is, before she'd need one, apparently. While that would resolve the apparent conflict between the first dragonmaster transforming the world as noted in TSS and the EB prologue that I noted in the other thread, it does raise the question of why she created (anointed?) a dragonmaster while the Blue Star was still populated. Unless it's more like a garden of Eden thing... she transformed part of Lunar on her own before "time and circumstance" forced her to turn her vacation home over to humans, and one of those humans helped her transformed the rest of it, or enough of the rest of it.


Dragonmaster Louie is only in the English remake. The screenshots I have here are of identical points in the game.

There's no implication on if he was there before, during, or after Althena arrived. If I had to guess, I'd say that Dragonmaster arrived with Althena on the ark when everyone was moving over.

1) EB_E_1683.jpg EB_E_1684.jpg EB_J_857.jpg
E: Reference in Vane Library to Meryod having burned down.
J: No mention of Meryod, no mention of rednecks. "It looks like the worldwide Althena's Cult was working to revive Zophar."

When does this occur in the game? I know the pics will make it clear, but is a person saying this or a book? Either way, it would be pretty strange if that line occurs when you first go to Vane, and stranger still if it's a book whose text changes to this later.


A person; this is the same one who says he's from Meryod.

2) EB_E_0180.jpg EB_J_136.jpg
E: The mayor of Larpa charges you 500S for the information Lucia got.
J: The mayor of Larpa charges you 30S for the information Lucia got.

Do we actually lose this money, or does the dialogue only say we do?


I'd have to double-check, but I seem to recall that you do actually lose this money.

2) EB_E_0223.jpg EB_J_169.jpg EB_J_170.jpg EB_J_171.jpg
E: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but not as blunt as in Japanese version throughout the game.
J: Ruby is enamored with Hiro, but a lot more jealous of Lucia throughout the game. "That's right! ...no, Hiro, you couldn't be interested in Lucia!? No!! Lucia, listen up! I'm the one who's gonna become Hiro's bride."

Don't you have this one twice?

These are from two different points in the game.

2) EB_E_0497.jpg EB_E_0498.jpg EB_E_0499.jpg EB_E_0500.jpg EB_J_286.jpg
E: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is Ronfar's literal grandfather.
J: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is no one in particular. Ronfar calls him 'gramps' as in a colloquial reference to an old man, not as his literal grandfather. "Hey, gramps, we can hear you from the bottom of the earth. Knock it off with that gloomy voice."

Yeah, with this and Lemina's "grandfather" in Zaback, I always thought WD was overly literal. Ronfar having a grandfather in Raculi makes more sense, though.


I'm not sure why the translators missed this one. Maybe they weren't familiar with the idea of family titles being applied to non-relatives?

2) EB_E_0530.jpg EB_E_0531.jpg EB_E_0532.jpg EB_J_300.jpg EB_J_301.jpg
E: The father of the current Ramus is named Grant.
J: Ramus' grandfather is also named Ramus; no one mentions another name for him. "When I was a child, Ramus' store was many times bigger than it is now. But the current young owner's old man [implies grandfather] was worthless..."

I'm confused. Are we talking about his father or his grandfather? Because the J line suggests he's talking about himself (if he's the one talking, anyway). Of course, in English one's "old man" refers to one's father. Also, I don't remember a name of "Grant" but maybe I just need to recheck my notes.


This quotation isn't from anyone in Ramus' Store, it's from someone in one of Meribia's houses.

The name Grant is there; it's in the English screenshot.

I thought she signed her diary Lee Lee. That is, it's her nickname for herself. Of course, she could only save without wasting anything in the J game... :P (And she could control the weather by repairing the roof? Is that like carrying an umbrella so it won't rain?)


That's possible; I might change that in my notes.

"Stop the rain" means stop the rain from coming in.

Doesn't she only figure it out after he says "Jean, you always were my best student"? That's pretty much telling her straight out. It still seems incongruous to me that she recognizes his voice only then when she's heard it several times before.


Yeah that's why this is only a minor change. It was mostly the fact that Lunn literally had to spell it out for her in the Japanese dialogue.

Odd that he says Leo's clumsy... we only see that side of him in the epilogue when he's running through Takkar as Mystere. And in Lunatic Parade (the manga).


The clumsiness may refer to the silliness of the costume, or perhaps the recklessness of coming in to save them in that transparent a getup.

2) EB_E_1299.jpg EB_E_1300.jpg EB_J_730.jpg EB_J_731.jpg
E: The Blue Dragon asks if Lucia's arrival means Althena has left.
J: The Blue Dragon greets Lucia as the one who controls the Blue Star, and mentions the Dragons' role in keeping the world in balance. "Ah, so it is you, Lucia, the one who controls the Blue Star, who has revived me... But... we Dragons have the duty to protect the balance of this world."

The one who controls the Blue Star? What, by snoozing? I forget, does he actually recognize her as an individual (suggesting a draconic racial memory), or only as a being of the same type as Althena? Though come to think of it -- and I can't believe I never thought of this before -- the current dragons, other than Nall, would never have known Althena. Yet, as your next example shows, they knew what her plan / dream was.


I wouldn't take 'controls' too literally. The word used is the same one used for Althena with respect to Lunar.

The dragons recognize her as an individual in the English version. Although there's still no sense of personally knowing her.

2) EB_E_1956.jpg EB_E_1957.jpg EB_E_1958.jpg
E: Jean admits to being 'a little lovesick'.
J: Nothing about Jean being 'lovesick'.

What? When does this happen?


One of the caravan carts when you pick Jean up in the epilogue. I need a corresponding Japanese screenshot for this one, though.

2) EB_E_1980.jpg EB_E_1981.jpg EB_E_1982.jpg EB_J_957.jpg
E: Leo asks to look out for his 'Lords of Valor' beefcake calendar when it comes out.
J: Leo is humble about his pursuit to justice. "But, I still need to learn much in order to truly understand the meaning of justice..."

I prefer the humility, which of course also goes with his actions in Takkar later. I assume this is after he's given Hiro the Destiny, etc?


This is during the epilogue, in Dalton.

3) EB_E_0000.jpg EB_J_000.jpg
E: Althena not referred to as goddess of anything in particular in intro.
J: Althena referred to as Goddess of Creation in intro. "Long, long ago, the Goddess of Creation, Althena, blessed the land of death with great magic power and turned it into a land abundant with green."

Makes sense, since Zophar refers to her as "a goddess of creation", and is a lot less insipid than "Goddess of Love and Beauty". Blech.


Althena is still referred to as the Goddess of Love and Beauty throughout the game.

3) EB_E_0062.jpg EB_E_0063.jpg EB_J_052.jpg EB_J_053.jpg
E: Althena is reborn every few hundred years.
J: Althena used to be reborn many centuries ago. "Many hundreds of years ago... The Goddess of Love and Beauty, Althena, would be reborn [periodically]. When she was reborn, she would guide the world and its people, and govern everything."

This still seems kind of ambiguous. Is "reborn" referring to her goddess state or her human state? 'Cause Luna didn't seem to be the governing type. In other words, which is considered her usual state? It sounded in TSS that being human was the exception and being a goddess in her Tower the default, but then she'd be governing and guiding by default, too. Wouldn't need to be reborn for that, presumably.


It refers to her human state. Luna's birth was perhaps an exception to how she normally operates, though.

3) EB_E_0826.jpg EB_E_0827.jpg EB_J_472.jpg
E: The beads in Azado cost 1000S.
J: The beads in Azado cost 1000S and are effective for 10 days. "To buy the beads, you need to pay 1000S every 10 days."

That'd be a lot of bookkeeping for the priests, who'd have to keep track of how long ago people bought the beads (since they didn't do squat except mark who had paid their protection fees). On the other hand, they'd run out of extortion victims sooner or later if it were a one-time charge.


The beads just probably quit glowing after 10 days or something.

3) EB_E_1677.jpg EB_E_1678.jpg EB_E_1679.jpg EB_J_852.jpg
E: Jean says that the fight with Zophar is the last time she'll use Blue Dragon Karate.
J: Jean says that this will be the last fight in which she intends on using martial arts. "I intend for this to be the last fight of Jean the martial artist..."

Does she say Blue Dragon Karate, rather than Black Karate of Death or whatever it is? In either case, she clearly doesn't stick to it, since there's an epilogue.


She says Blue Dragon Karate.

3) EB_E_2045.jpg EB_E_2046.jpg EB_J_979.jpg
E: Nall mentions that the Star Dragon guards the way between Lunar and the Blue Star.
J: Nall adds that the Star Dragon is unlike the Four Dragons. "The Star Dragon! He's not like the other Dragons. He has the power to connect star with star."

The E version works better with G1's and others' conviction that the Phantom Sentry is the same entity, since the latter says that "it is my duty to protect the gateway!" He sounds more like an enabler if his is the power to actually establish the connection rather than just guard it.


I think you're misinterpreting the translation. Also, Nall says about the same thing in both games, he just adds the fact that the Star Dragon isn't like the other dragons.

4) EB_E_0106.jpg EB_J_084.jpg
E: The group behind the [false] Althena is named Althena's Cult.
J: The group behind the [false] Althena is named, more literally, 'Althena's Divine Party'--'Althena-shindan'. Note that this same word is usually translated as 'Althena's Cult', but in a few places is also translated as 'priesthood' or 'Althena's Guard'.

Sounds like "Chosen" was a better translation as well as a less-creepy sounding one. I mean, who calls their own organization a cult?


I personally think they should've stuck with Althena's Guard throughout the game.

4) EB_E_0193.jpg EB_E_0194.jpg EB_E_0195.jpg EB_E_0196.jpg EB_J_144.jpg EB_J_145.jpg
E: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Saint Lunn, Grand Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri.
J: Names and titles of the Four Heroes: White Knight Leo, Blue Karate-Master Lunn [rainasu], Black Wizard Borgan, Red Priest Mauri. Karate-Master is 'kensei', literally 'holy fist'.

I really wonder where the Saint came from. It doesn't make any sense at all


It makes sense based on 'kensei'. Usually, "kensei" uses the character for sword and means something like sword-saint. Here, it uses the character for fist. I think the best translation for it is just "Master" or something.

4) EB_E_0325.jpg EB_J_217.jpg
E: North of Takkar is Secret Room #2.
J: North of Takkar is 'Bandit Hideout'

I guess it's more sensible in some regards, but raises an expectation of bandits which you don't actually encounter. But where's Secret Room #1 again?


Secret Room #1 is where the Dark Scimitar is found.

4) EB_E_0366.jpg EB_J_229.jpg
E: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Phantom Sentry.
J: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Zeke the Risen [jiiku za raizun].

Wow, that sounds... wimpy. Risen is interesting, perhaps, but Zeke really would lack dignity in English. Isn't he called the Star Sentry in the last fight, though?


In the English version, yeah. I might need to double-check that in the Japanese version, though.

4) EB_E_1185.jpg EB_E_1186.jpg EB_J_677.jpg
E: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to as 'Dragon Aura'.
J: The sealed power of the Dragons is referred to only as 'Power of Dragon'. "Each of the sealed Dragon Powers is guarded by one of Althena's Cult's Four Heroes."

Doesn't seem a major difference, but I suppose in a way it makes more sense with Ruby's having been stolen while she was still immature, and also with Borgan able to use the Black Dragon one to become powerful.


"Dragon Aura" I think made more sense since it was a tangible thing that you got after defeating each of the Four Heroes. This was grouped under 'name clarifications' just to record that difference, though.

4) EB_E_1217.jpg EB_E_1218.jpg EB_J_697.jpg EB_J_698.jpg
E: The area south of Horam is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area south of Horam is called the Dix Mountainous Area. The 'Marius Zone' from the first Lunar game was called something different. "This is the Martial Arts Town of Horam. This is the Westernmost town in West Katarina. South of West Katarina is the Dix Mountainous Area..."

I'm confused about what areas and names and games you're referring to here by "called something different". But it does seem a little odd to reuse that "zone" name from TSS in an area which isn't very analogous.


The "Marius Zone" in TSS is called "Marius Zone" in English, and "Marius Zone" in Japanese. The "Marius Zone" in EB is called "Marius Zone" in English, and "Dix Mountainous Area" in Japanese.

5) EB_E_2160.jpg EB_J_A09.jpg
E: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower isn't equippable, only usable in battle.
J: Flame Fist in Sunken Tower can be equipped on Jean, and is usable in battle.

Huh? This is what JWL's list said: "In the original game, the Flame Fist has the stats of "Attack Power +210 *Equip Effect". However, it is still unequippable. WD, in seeing that the weapon could not be equipped, deleted it's stats from the item data so that it's stats read only as "*Equip Effect" in the translation." You were actually able to equip it as a weapon?


I'm not sure. It appears I'll need to re-check this. KF
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DezoPenguin
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Re: First draft of "differences" list

Postby DezoPenguin » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:30 am

Kizyr wrote:
1) EB_E_0169.jpg EB_E_0170.jpg EB_E_0171.jpg EB_J_127.jpg EB_J_128.jpg
E: Ronfar is nondescript about how long ago the ordeal with Mauri was.
J: Ronfar says that the ordeal with Mauri was three years ago. "...strange! What is this!? Why has the curse gotten stronger? Three years ago... when Mauri fell ill, I..."


Alunissage is right. This truly makes 17 a lame age. Though if we're to believe JRPGs, 15 is the perfect age for saving the world, at 18 you're really getting over the hill and had better settle down and get married before your parents start worrying that they'll never have grandkids, and at 30 you're a wrinkly, useless candidate for the cardiac care unit.

Since I'm 35, I'm probably dead now.

1) EB_E_0249.jpg EB_E_0250.jpg EB_E_0251.jpg EB_E_0252.jpg EB_E_0253.jpg EB_E_0254.jpg EB_J_187.jpg EB_J_188.jpg EB_J_189.jpg EB_J_190.jpg
E: Jean never told anyone what she was running from; she was only found in karate gear.
J: Jean only didn't tell anyone what happened when she was found (see items below). "Jean was lying down with bruises all over her body when we found and helped her. She was afraid of something, and wouldn't say what. She looked like she was once a martial artist, but she doesn't use martial arts anymore..."


This was really one of WD's best decisions to change something in the localization. Dark Pasts (tm) should be revealed slowly and ominously. Mind you, that's not saying that Jean wouldn't necessarily have told trusted members of the Caravan, but the player shouldn't know.

1) EB_E_0796.jpg EB_E_0797.jpg EB_J_456.jpg EB_J_457.jpg EB_J_458.jpg EB_J_459.jpg
E: Vane Library book is on killing Barney.
J: Vane Library book is about the first Dragonmaster, Dragonmaster Louie. "History of Dragonmasters | Together with the Goddess Althena, the first Dragonmaster came to this land from the Blue Star, Dragonmaster Louie. His first step is still left somewhere on this land..." - "Whoa... We should go look for that one day, Hiro. I'd like to see it..."


Wait...in your answer to Alunissage, below, didn't you say that "Louie" was only in the English version?

That said, I'm extremely frightened that the evil of Barney has made it to Lunar. Given how much trouble they had with a mere Architect of Anarchy and Master of Mayhem, I give them five years, tops, before the world is destroyed. Maybe three if Lucia and Hiro move to the Blue Star full-time.

2) EB_E_0497.jpg EB_E_0498.jpg EB_E_0499.jpg EB_E_0500.jpg EB_J_286.jpg
E: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is Ronfar's literal grandfather.
J: The old man at the entrance to Zulan is no one in particular. Ronfar calls him 'gramps' as in a colloquial reference to an old man, not as his literal grandfather. "Hey, gramps, we can hear you from the bottom of the earth. Knock it off with that gloomy voice."


Hmmm...I seem to recall that I thought Ronfar was not his literal grandson--but I could just be channeling the remake. I've already noticed a lot of places on this list where the remake went back to the original Japanese lines from the first game (and presumably the J remake).

2) EB_E_0530.jpg EB_E_0531.jpg EB_E_0532.jpg EB_J_300.jpg EB_J_301.jpg
E: The father of the current Ramus is named Grant.
J: Ramus' grandfather is also named Ramus; no one mentions another name for him. "When I was a child, Ramus' store was many times bigger than it is now. But the current young owner's old man [implies grandfather] was worthless..."

2) EB_E_0553.jpg EB_E_0554.jpg EB_J_312.jpg EB_J_313.jpg
E: Every 10th boy in Ramus' family is named Ramus.
J: All the owners of Ramus' store are named Ramus. "He calls Ramus 'junior' because the owners of Ramus' store are all named Ramus. The grandfather is Ramus, and so his grandson is called Ramus Junior."


Obviously not being named Ramus was the reason why Grant was so lousy at business...

2) EB_E_0684.jpg EB_E_0685.jpg EB_J_372.jpg
E: Girl in Vane is looking for its 'spank shops'.
J: Girl in Vane likes the romantic feeling of Vane's history. "The Magic Guild from a forgotten era... Oh how romantic!"


I regret to note that I genuinely missed the advent of the Prankster Spankster in the remake...

2) EB_E_0779.jpg EB_E_0780.jpg EB_E_0781.jpg EB_J_438.jpg EB_J_439.jpg
E: Vane Library book mentions Love Potion #9.
J: Vane Library book mentions cooking recipes. "Hey, Hiro, I want to try some of the Sand Shark Sashimi! [lit. Dolphin Face Sashimi] Hey, why do you look so disgusted, Hiro?"


Sand Shark = Dolphin Face in the original? I guess this explains why they look way more like dolphins...

2) EB_E_0948.jpg EB_J_548.jpg
E: Lucia doesn't sense Althena's presence when you reach Pentagulia.
J: Lucia does sense Althena's power when you reach Pentagulia. "Definitely, I feel Althena's Power coming from this city..."


Clearly, if I'm ever creating a Magic Seal spell, I need to write it in English rather than Japanese. Japanese seals apparently leak.

2) EB_E_1100.jpg EB_E_1101.jpg EB_E_1102.jpg EB_J_629.jpg EB_J_630.jpg EB_J_631.jpg
E: Ronfar says that both Leo and Mauri's lives are in danger if the Cult knew about him helping them.
J: Ronfar only says that Leo swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. "Leo is a knight who swore loyalty to Althena's Cult. If he didn't disguise himself like that, then he would have lost his position. That guy's pretty clumsy. But, he has good in him..."


Another good change. I'd rather have Leo going around doing the "plausible deniability" gig to save his and his sister's lives rather than to try and save his job; likewise, I can't see Leo as the kind of guy whose sense of honor and sworn duty would let him go, "Well, if I act as 'Mystere' instead of as 'Leo,' then 'Leo' isn't violating his word..."

2) EB_E_1323.jpg EB_E_1324.jpg EB_E_1325.jpg EB_J_745.jpg EB_J_746.jpg
E: The old man near Zaback's entrance is Lemina's literal grandfather.
J: The old man near Zaback's entrance is no one in particular. Lemina calls him 'grandfather', but this isn't literal. "Grandpa..." - "Ah, please do not worry about me, young girl. You are too kind."


For some reason I really did think this guy was Lemina's grandfather. Maybe it's because of the whole Vane-Neo Vane link, but I wasn't going "ojisan" in my head throughout the exchange.

2) EB_E_1980.jpg EB_E_1981.jpg EB_E_1982.jpg EB_J_957.jpg
E: Leo asks to look out for his 'Lords of Valor' beefcake calendar when it comes out.
J: Leo is humble about his pursuit to justice. "But, I still need to learn much in order to truly understand the meaning of justice..."


This one made my wife laugh. Though to be fair, she'd probably buy a Leo beefcake calendar; he's her favorite EB character.

3) EB_E_0000.jpg EB_J_000.jpg
E: Althena not referred to as goddess of anything in particular in intro.
J: Althena referred to as Goddess of Creation in intro. "Long, long ago, the Goddess of Creation, Althena, blessed the land of death with great magic power and turned it into a land abundant with green."


It's about effing time Althena got to be something instead of "Goddess of Love and Beauty." That always rubbed me the wrong way. It was like Aphrodite had been given the keys to the universe and then all the rest of the pantheon of deities went and died out.

3) EB_E_0062.jpg EB_E_0063.jpg EB_J_052.jpg EB_J_053.jpg
E: Althena is reborn every few hundred years.
J: Althena used to be reborn many centuries ago. "Many hundreds of years ago... The Goddess of Love and Beauty, Althena, would be reborn [periodically]. When she was reborn, she would guide the world and its people, and govern everything."


Aw, Sand Shark.


4) EB_E_0366.jpg EB_J_229.jpg
E: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Phantom Sentry.
J: The person who attacks you at Bandit's Butte (and later in the Epilogue) is named Zeke the Risen [jiiku za raizun].


The Star Sentry...the humanoid incarnation of the Star Dragon...the warrior knight who guards the magical bridge between the worlds...was named Zeke?!?

Now we know why there's no rednecks in J-Meryod. They'd be redundant.

4) EB_E_1217.jpg EB_E_1218.jpg EB_J_697.jpg EB_J_698.jpg
E: The area south of Horam is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area south of Horam is called the Dix Mountainous Area. The 'Marius Zone' from the first Lunar game was called something different. "This is the Martial Arts Town of Horam. This is the Westernmost town in West Katarina. South of West Katarina is the Dix Mountainous Area..."


Well, the Marius Zone from the first game is apparently at the bottom of the Minea Sea, so this kind of makes sense, if you think about it.

4) EB_E_1340.jpg EB_E_1341.jpg EB_E_1342.jpg EB_J_753.jpg
E: The area around Zaback is called the Marius Zone.
J: The area around Zaback is called the Dix Mountainous Area. "There are places where treasure lies around the Dix Mountainous Area here and the Minea Sea to the east."


Isn't this the same point as you just made? Marius Zone = Dix Mountainous Area.

4) EB_E_1571.jpg EB_J_823.jpg
E: Item in Goddess' Tower called Immortal Bow.
J: Item in Goddess' Tower called 'God Gun'.


Enough of these and I may forgive Victor for the Clinton joke.

4) EB_E_2139.jpg EB_J_997.jpg
E: Find Lucia's Tear at Dragon's Nest.
J: Find Devil's Tear at Dragon's Next.


Apparently named by pre-adulthood Ruby. ;)

5) EB_E_2004.jpg EB_J_962.jpg
E: Ronfar's topmost group-healing spell is 45MP (22MP with ring). Icons for single and group healing spells are switched.
J: Ronfar's topmost group-healing spell is 17MP. Icons for single and group healing spells are switched.


On the other hand, I will never forgive Working Designs for this one.

Oh, and in the arena of "Is this the same?"...what about my all-time favorite NPC encounter, the girl selling snack mix in the West Nota bridge entrance? Does the Japanese version include more wortroot? Is "glittering generalities" a marketing buzzword in multiple languages?

Hey, and here's a question which has nothing to do with anything (Alunissage's "probably sexually abusive"...ugh...line about Lunn inspired it). IIRC, the Blue Dragon Cult fighters in the Zen Zone were eminently misogynistic, right down to "I can't believe I was beaten by a girl!" But Jean was supposed to be the Masked Man's prize pupil, the very best of his little pet killer kids. So that implies Lunn, at least, is aware that women can be as vicious and competent as men, or else he wouldn't have bothered with Jean (heck, why even kidnap Jean if he doesn't realize it? It's not like people willingly sign up for Black Karate of Death on Career Day at school...). So why hasn't he beaten the bad attitude out of those stupid culties by then? Is it just because he knew they'd have to fight Bunny Karate in the tournament and wanted their teenage hormones shut down? Or did Lunn's judgment just fall down a plothole?

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Postby Alunissage » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:02 am

Sorry about the mention of sexual abuse, but it really does make the most sense to me. It did to Zach too; we talked about it some time before EBC was released. It's a formidable weapon in breaking people, including children, and making them think that they can have no life outside of their training.

I would guess that that particular fighter was a) thinking in terms of Bunny Karate and and expecting only opponents of that type, b) trained after Jean left the group and therefore not aware of her (assuming she wasn't one of lots of girls in the group), or c) sexist despite evidence to the contrary, which a lot of people are. If by chance there wasn't sexual abuse involved in the cult, the girls were probably treated as neuter. The assassins would expect their own kind to be fighters, but not others.

And come on, wouldn't a 17MP powerful all-heal spell be way too easy? The other dragon spells being raised to 99 from their various costs are more irritating... Argh, I wish there were a guide to this game to make this stuff easier to look up. Failing that, I wish I could find my #$! notes from when I played the Japanese game, because I know I found a couple other changes like that that weren't in JWL's list.

Kizyr showed previously by screenshot that Louie was mentioned in the Japanese game, by the way. His name is in katakana [rui]. It may be that some writer thought that that was a more appropriate name for Lunar, in the vein of Luna and Lucia.
Edit: here's the post, with screenshots:
http://lunarthreads.com/viewtopic.php?p=37085#37085

And yes, the Love and Beauty thing was annoying. Even Song and Dance would make more sense, with the festival and all. We did have a thread here (unless it was at the Shrine) some years ago about whether Althena had been one of a pantheon originally, which prompted my fanfic-hating self to write up a little backstory outline based on that. I still think Healing would be a more likely type of goddess for her to be, going by what her priests and statues do... but judging by all the NPCs who think her statues are totally hot the Love and Beauty label may have been stuck on her from the outside.
Edit: the thread was at the Shrine (in Jan 2003), so maybe you were part of it. One of the posts I quoted and replied to sounds a lot like what you just said.

And heh, a person here who's older than I am. Though there may have been one other; not sure.

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Postby Kizyr » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:08 am

Dezo wrote:Alunissage is right. This truly makes 17 a lame age.


I get the impression that the ages given were rather arbitrary anyway. Three years prior to arriving at Larpa seems a reasonable time frame, but I'd rather pin Ronfar's age at 25-30.

There's also the mistake-ridden flyer in the remake that has his age at like 45.

Dezo wrote:This was really one of WD's best decisions to change something in the localization. Dark Pasts (tm) should be revealed slowly and ominously. Mind you, that's not saying that Jean wouldn't necessarily have told trusted members of the Caravan, but the player shouldn't know.


The modification to Jean's backstory is my favorite change. I greatly prefer the way it was done in the English version.

...I also like that they kept consistent with it throughout the game.

Dezo wrote:Wait...in your answer to Alunissage, below, didn't you say that "Louie" was only in the English version?


No, I said that "Louie" in the English version was only in the PSX version, not the original SCD one.

"Louie" was in both the SCD and PSX/Saturn Japanese versions.

Dezo wrote:For some reason I really did think this guy was Lemina's grandfather. Maybe it's because of the whole Vane-Neo Vane link, but I wasn't going "ojisan" in my head throughout the exchange.


That's because the English dialogue refers to him as Lemina's literal grandfather. It wasn't supposed to be literal.

Dezo wrote:Isn't this the same point as you just made? Marius Zone = Dix Mountainous Area.


No the point I was making is that the Marius Zone isn't supposed to be the same thing.

The Marius Zone in TSS was called "Marius Zone".

What they call the Marius Zone in EB is really called "Dix Mountains".

The problem is that it's called a different name. Calling it "Marius Zone" makes the assumption that it's the same place, which it may not necessarily be.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer...

Dezo wrote:Oh, and in the arena of "Is this the same?"...what about my all-time favorite NPC encounter, the girl selling snack mix in the West Nota bridge entrance? Does the Japanese version include more wortroot? Is "glittering generalities" a marketing buzzword in multiple languages?


There was something similar enough to where I didn't mark it down as a difference. I'm not accounting for stylistic differences, because translation isn't an exact thing. If I wanted to account for stylistic differences, then I'd be copying and pasting the entire dialogue of the game.

Dezo wrote:IIRC, the Blue Dragon Cult fighters in the Zen Zone were eminently misogynistic, right down to "I can't believe I was beaten by a girl!" But Jean was supposed to be the Masked Man's prize pupil, the very best of his little pet killer kids. So that implies Lunn, at least, is aware that women can be as vicious and competent as men, or else he wouldn't have bothered with Jean (heck, why even kidnap Jean if he doesn't realize it? It's not like people willingly sign up for Black Karate of Death on Career Day at school...). So why hasn't he beaten the bad attitude out of those stupid culties by then? Is it just because he knew they'd have to fight Bunny Karate in the tournament and wanted their teenage hormones shut down? Or did Lunn's judgment just fall down a plothole?


Not really; there's no need for Lunn to worry about contradictions and everything. His only objection is power--logical contradictions don't need to get in the way of that.

If you want to breed the emotions out of someone--except maybe things like hatred/malice--then it's probably easy to get them to fixate on their own self-importance and their own power (subordinate to Lunn's, in this case). Fixating on that can mean hating everything that isn't just like you--women, people with emotions, etc.

By the way... while realistically, someone in Lunn's position would never be forgiven, and probably would be sexually abusive, fact is that this was a game. So, things don't necessarily need to follow the same way they might in the real world. ...I prefer to leave those details out unless there really is something in the game to back that up.

Dezo wrote:It's about effing time Althena got to be something instead of "Goddess of Love and Beauty." That always rubbed me the wrong way. It was like Aphrodite had been given the keys to the universe and then all the rest of the pantheon of deities went and died out.

Alun wrote:And yes, the Love and Beauty thing was annoying. Even Song and Dance would make more sense, with the festival and all. We did have a thread here (unless it was at the Shrine) some years ago about whether Althena had been one of a pantheon originally, which prompted my fanfic-hating self to write up a little backstory outline based on that. I still think Healing would be a more likely type of goddess for her to be, going by what her priests and statues do... but judging by all the NPCs who think her statues are totally hot the Love and Beauty label may have been stuck on her from the outside.


I still don't get the whole problem with referring to Althena as the Goddess of Love and Beauty. The Lunar Pantheon is not the same as the Greco-Roman pantheon (even though it does draw a few parallels). It really should be treated as one in its own right.

To that extent... Althena is a goddess of Creation. Zophar is a god of Destruction. (Lucia is a goddess of... revival maybe) The names tacked on the end are just references. Kind of like saying Althena is a goddess of light, and Zophar is a god of darkness (which is how he's referred to occasionally). It doesn't mean that those are their only domains, but just those are characteristics which are usually ascribed to them--which is why comparing Althena to Aphrodite, for instance, makes little sense.

I mean you could easily make comparisons to Hindu cosmology. But in Lunar, Althena's power creates and thus destroys old creation; Zophar's power spreads chaos and destruction. It's not the same dichotomy where both sides are necessary like with Hindu cosmology. So, like a comparison with the Greco-Roman pantheon, it's pretty limited. KF
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Postby DezoPenguin » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:14 am

Alunissage wrote:Sorry about the mention of sexual abuse, but it really does make the most sense to me. It did to Zach too; we talked about it some time before EBC was released. It's a formidable weapon in breaking people, including children, and making them think that they can have no life outside of their training.


Oh, sorry about the confusion. My "ugh" wasn't directed at you for mentioning it but at the concept itself.

Though I can't really see Lunn as doing something like that in Lunar. While Jean may not have "forgiven" him particularly, she's still training with him in the Cave of Trial after Zophar appears, and it kind of ruins the "We're going to forgive all the Four Heroes" vibe that's going on, what with Borgan getting to get snuggly with Miria, Leo becoming a PC, and Mauri being Ronfar's sweetie (though she was possessed rather than being voluntarily on the wrong side). Sexual abuse is the kind of thing that's just...utterly unforgivable, in my book, and it really doesn't fit with the shiny/pretty/happy appearance and messages of Lunar. It's more the kind of thing I could see in Phantasy Star, with its ambiguous endings and darker storylines.

And come on, wouldn't a 17MP powerful all-heal spell be way too easy?


Well, it's not quite an all-heal spell, and it's not high enough that Ronfar needs to be routinely Silver Lighted in battle. The real problem with it is that it eats too many MP walking through Zophar's Domain. I always leave my Healing magic at L27 until the Zophar fight, when I level up to 29 so I can get Shining Litany and am forced to hit Tranquil Litany on the way.

Since the dragon spells are only really for boss battles (and seriously, does anyone use Red or Black spells; Red doesn't do anywhere near enough damage to justify the cost...hm, so maybe that 99 breaks it completely...while Black denies the party its hard-earned EXP and MEXP) I didn't find the 99 cost that nasty. Lemina needs something to do besides cast Magic Shield, anyway. :twisted:

Kizyr showed previously by screenshot that Louie was mentioned in the Japanese game, by the way. His name is in katakana [rui]. It may be that some writer thought that that was a more appropriate name for Lunar, in the vein of Luna and Lucia.
Edit: here's the post, with screenshots:
http://lunarthreads.com/viewtopic.php?p=37085#37085


Okay, so Neil is the English name, got it...
*pounds head so things will stick in memory*
*accidentally pounds too hard and goes to stay in amnesia-land with Elia*

And yes, the Love and Beauty thing was annoying. Even Song and Dance would make more sense, with the festival and all. We did have a thread here (unless it was at the Shrine) some years ago about whether Althena had been one of a pantheon originally, which prompted my fanfic-hating self to write up a little backstory outline based on that. I still think Healing would be a more likely type of goddess for her to be, going by what her priests and statues do... but judging by all the NPCs who think her statues are totally hot the Love and Beauty label may have been stuck on her from the outside.
Edit: the thread was at the Shrine (in Jan 2003), so maybe you were part of it. One of the posts I quoted and replied to sounds a lot like what you just said.


Heh, I bet it was me; I've been saying it since I first played TSS and said it to my roommate. It always struck me as cheap-ass sexism. Sure, Althena gives all life to the world of Lunar, single-handedly saved existence from Zophar, and handles all the goddess responsibilities the planet needs (and decides to change them when she realized that the population has different needs), but she gets to officially be the Goddess of Girly Stuff (especially beauty; at least Love is something worth having a deity dedicated towards, especially given the message of the Lunar games), and all the other things are just...what, hobbies?

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Postby Alunissage » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:31 am

Re Marius/Dix, I think the thing he's asking is why do you list it twice. (Because the first time is referring to the area south of the Zen Zone and the second is the area around Zaback, presumably, which register as different areas of the game as far as reloading the world map is concerned.)

I'm not really bothered by calling it Marius myself. It's not too far from the volcanoes, which were in the south of Marius in TSS.

Three years seems a reasonable time between Ronfar's leaving Mauri and the events of EB. It's just the 17 part that doesn't match.

And of course the exact nature of Jean's and the other kids' abuse isn't stated, and I wouldn't put it anywhere as if it were. But with the grimness that's set up even without reading that implication, it still seems ridiculous to have Jean forgive Lunn and believe in his ability to retrain himself. I did kind of like how she was sparring against him in the remake after Zophar's revival, even though she didn't have any friendly feelings toward him that I recall; she knew that her past with him was not as important as stopping Zophar and he was still the best person to get her into top shape. And it was the least he could do.

Oh, and I wasn't doubting you that Ramus's father is called Grant; I was just noting my own lapse of memory, especially if that's from the first time you enter Meribia, which I've seen recently.

The Love and Beauty thing just sounds.... airheaded, I guess. Though in that thread at the Shrine to which I referred, I defended it a little as being just a description of her traits (beautiful and loving). It's just so superficial compared to creation.

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Postby Kizyr » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:38 am

Alunissage wrote:Re Marius/Dix, I think the thing he's asking is why do you list it twice. (Because the first time is referring to the area south of the Zen Zone and the second is the area around Zaback, presumably, which register as different areas of the game as far as reloading the world map is concerned.)

I'm not really bothered by calling it Marius myself. It's not too far from the volcanoes, which were in the south of Marius in TSS.


Ah, that'd make more sense with the screenshots. It's inconsistently translated as the "Marius Zone" in one place, and the "Freaky Peaks" elsewhere.

I actually do think it's the same area as the Marius Zone. I just think it was intentional to leave that supposition up to the player, instead of spelling it out.

Alunissage wrote:The Love and Beauty thing just sounds.... airheaded, I guess. Though in that thread at the Shrine to which I referred, I defended it a little as being just a description of her traits (beautiful and loving). It's just so superficial compared to creation.


It doesn't seem so superficial to me... Love and beauty are associated with goodness, and considering that Lunar was transformed from a 'desert of death' to an 'abundant [and presumably beautiful] land of green' kind of speaks to that.

It's only limiting if you want to view it within the constraints of a Greco-Roman pantheon which, like I said before, is a lot different from the pantheon expressed in the Lunar series. Lunar's actually interesting in that there's definitely multiple deities floating around, but there are a very small number of them that really affect humans, and that humans are really concerned about. So there's kind of a pantheon there, but it's of limited importance. KF
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Postby Alunissage » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:51 am

Of course, the one time I post without previewing first it turns out that there's been a post (Darrell's, that is) made while I was writing mine that addresses several of the same things. Thanks for stating your objection to "Love and Beauty" more bluntly; that's really what I wanted to say but didn't for some reason. Probably to avoid going off into the whole sexism thing which has been getting me really riled up lately. I would add that her being characterized thusly sounds like a man who doesn't want to admit that a female is his ruler trying to redefine her as something existing for his benefit (as eye candy, if nothing else) in an attempt to minimize her real power over him.

I meant Tranquil Litany is an all-heal as in healing everyone, by the way, not healing to max HP.

The first Dragonmaster is Louie in EBC, too (he's not mentioned in EB). Neil is only in the Hasukawa interview, not in any of the games. I, at least, thought that it was a weird Armstrong error on WD's part until Kizyr posted those screenshots.

You feel sexual abuse doesn't fit in with Lunar but spank shops do? Remember, Lunn is explicitly characterized as sadistic by one of his guards in Meribia, and that's his known, public persona. Zophar says "Tell me, darling, was it good for you?" after cursing Lucia. Rape doesn't seem that out of place in EB, though it would be in the other games.

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Postby DezoPenguin » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:15 pm

Alunissage wrote: I would add that her being characterized thusly sounds like a man who doesn't want to admit that a female is his ruler trying to redefine her as something existing for his benefit (as eye candy, if nothing else) in an attempt to minimize her real power over him.


Yes; that I can see. It's always been a question of the disconnect between the labeling of Althena by her mortal worshippers as "Goddess of Love and Beauty" and her actual role in the universe as Goddess of Creation, Goddess of Light, Goddess of Humanity, Goddess of Life, or whatever. It's...well, a Shintoist wouldn't call Amaterasu the Goddess of Love and Beauty, would he or she?

It's a two-part problem:

(a) Her title does not have any apparent connection with the divine powers she displays and uses.
(b) Her title is one that relates to a low-power, low-status position in most pantheonic systems and ignores the fact that she is apparently the highest-power, highest-status deity that we encounter.

I will now shut up on the point before jacking this thread any more.

I meant Tranquil Litany is an all-heal as in healing everyone, by the way, not healing to max HP.


Ah. Gotcha.

You feel sexual abuse doesn't fit in with Lunar but spank shops do?


One is playfully mocking certain non-mainstream but clearly voluntary sexual practices of Lunar's citizens. It's a chuckle. Try imagining Ronfar trying to explain to Lucia what a "spank shop" is. :D And to be fair, I also dismissed it as a fourth-wall gag intended for the players rather than an in-game look at Lunar's life (not exactly the Clinton joke, but in the same category).

Sexual abuse, on the other hand, is never funny. Maybe it's just me, but any kind of sexual violation crosses a kind of mental line. It's hard to explain, but...um...it's like the universe would switch from David Eddings' Belgariad into Stephen R. Donaldson's Mordant's Need. Both are very Lunar-like in their fantasy environments and the kind of genuine heroism expressed (indeed, I'd say the Donaldson books are more Lunarlike since they are unburdened by Prophetic Divine Intervention), but the latter is much darker and more adult. I don't know if that was actually helpful, but hey, it's just a personal mental impression.

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Postby Alunissage » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:11 pm

Oh, I absolutely agree that it isn't funny. But not everything in Lunar is funny, especially in EB. I mean, is it that much farther than abducting children to raise them as assassins and killing, or trying to kill, those who would leave that life? That's not very funny either.

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:36 am

this "goddess of love and beauty" thing is being read into too deeply. beauty can be more than physical. the phrase is used several times and the meaning depends on the intentions of the character saying it. if a drunk guy at the bar says it after already making a couple of sexist statements, then that's one thing. if a member of Althena's Chosen says it then that's another.

AND so what if they DO objectify her some? it would be natural, afterall. they see the statue daily in town and also have never met her face to face to get to truly know her on a deeper level.

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Postby Kizyr » Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:23 pm

Re-reading some of my notes, I realized something...

"Sand shark sashimi" is the greatest tongue-twister ever.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:this "goddess of love and beauty" thing is being read into too deeply.


That's what I've been saying this entire time, too...

It should be noted that there's really no evidence that Althena is being objectified or lessened anywhere by the "love and beauty" title. It's all based on how folks are reading into it.

Besides which, the most frequent comments about Althena relate to how she transformed Lunar from a world of death to one of life. Considering Lunar's pantheon is extremely unlike the pantheons in the Greco-Roman era, it seems ridiculous to draw comparisons and make conclusions about Althena's objectification based on that. KF
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Postby phyco126 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:42 pm

Kizyr wrote:Re-reading some of my notes, I realized something...

"Sand shark sashimi" is the greatest tongue-twister ever.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:this "goddess of love and beauty" thing is being read into too deeply.


That's what I've been saying this entire time, too...

It should be noted that there's really no evidence that Althena is being objectified or lessened anywhere by the "love and beauty" title. It's all based on how folks are reading into it.

Besides which, the most frequent comments about Althena relate to how she transformed Lunar from a world of death to one of life. Considering Lunar's pantheon is extremely unlike the pantheons in the Greco-Roman era, it seems ridiculous to draw comparisons and make conclusions about Althena's objectification based on that. KF


Objectification? What? I've always seen her "Love and Beauty" part as nothing more than a innocent stand-point, hard to explain, but like two people in LOVE LOVE and the beauty can be something as simple as how beautiful the world of Lunar is, etc etc etc.
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:39 pm

i could see making a fuss if they called her the goddess of love and booty. then again, the background of SSSC certainly gives the phrase validity.

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Re: First draft of "differences" list

Postby Jenner » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:36 am

for the most part I like that WD cut out a lot of the foreshadowing, but just like Alun I do wish they hadn't removed the flavor.
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Re: First draft of "differences" list

Postby Alunissage » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:40 am

I'm glad that you bumped this because it's a good read (and one I should archive for that dim future in which I actually work on the encyclopedia), and I'm even happier that you agreed with me... but I'm having a hard time figuring out what it is that you're agreeing about/with. "The flavor"?


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