Lemina 'ships?

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Racoati
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Lemina 'ships?

Postby Racoati » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:25 am

Posted in EB because I haven't quite finished EBC, so I don't know if the plot gets a different resolution in that game....

Okay, so this is just me being curious on what people think. Technically, the canon-ish pairing for Lemina is with Ramus; well, about as canon as you get for something that's based on a bet between two people trying to make money out of the other's misfortune and in which one of the parties outright states "I don't love you, and I don't intend to lose [the bet]!" (Poor Ramus, Lemina can occasionally be a bit harsh. ;) ) Personally, I don't think it's going to fly. They only like each other for very superficial reasons (yes, thinking Lemina is teh hot is a superficial reason too), and there isn't exactly much chemistry between them; I get the feeling they care about each other and would defend each other as friends, but Lemina states she doesn't love Ramus.

So does she have any other options? (I think she does, but my speculations tend to be the kind of thing that get me looked at oddly by Lunar fans, so I'll put my thoughts aside until someone else backs me up... which may mean I'm silent for a long time. ;) ) Or do people prefer to think of her as just getting along happily with her life and not needing any type of romantic resolution? Just wondering what people think happens to her after the events of the series, other than her gathering up a big pile of shiny objects, curling around them and eventually turning into the Silver Dragon of Althena of course. ;)
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Postby GhaleonOne » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:11 am

I saw Lemina as someone who would have gotten married. But to who, not sure. Ramus is an option, for sure, and I don't think it's quite as superficial. I think there's more to Ramus liking her than pure looks. Lemina makes enough comments about Hiro that show that should would like to end up with someone. I think it's more likely she ends up with some unknown character after the EB events that is interested in rebuilding the Guild. Just my thoughts though.
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Postby Alunissage » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:19 am

I'm not fond of Lemina, so I want to see her stuck with someone she was trying to make money off of. >:) It's hard to say, really; I could see her and Ramus continuing to be business associates and eventually spouses, except that her ultimate goal is, or is supposed to be, the restoration of Vane. She sure comes across as having lost track of that and thinking of the goal as just getting lots of money, though. I don't know how many people will really understand her priorities aside from the other party members, and I sure don't see her hooking up with Leo. But she might find some nice NPC who can help her achieve her goals, and that could even be Ramus. She seems too young to be able to rule a relationship with Ramus out.

The positions of Guildmistress and Premier seem to have merged. I don't remember where I was going with that observation, though.

Is the Lemina novel set before or after EB? That could have some interesting insight.

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Postby Kizyr » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:29 am

Alunissage wrote:Is the Lemina novel set before or after EB? That could have some interesting insight.


Before; about 3 years before (when Lemina is 13). Miria actually looks younger in it. KF
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Postby Racoati » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:57 pm

"Looks" younger? I guess it's illustrated, then?
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Postby Alunissage » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:14 pm

Yeah, there are several illustrations in the text and a couple of color drawings on the front inside cover. Though I don't think I find these drawings as interesting as those in other novels. I see Miria (who does look very nice), Borgan, and probably Ramus, as well as one other recurring character and the fairies. Should be an interesting read.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:07 pm

I actually think that as Lemina and Ramus grow older they could grow into a genuine relationship.

They have a lot in common. Not just the money grubbing thing, the fact that they're both trying to work towards reviving once-great family legacies that have fallen into shambles.

And the fact that they made their bet at all shows that they've at least given marriage some thought, and that says a lot.
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Postby Racoati » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:30 am

Hmm, personally I don't think on Lemina's part at least it means she's given it much thought. I think what it means, at least as I see her, is that she's hot-headed, too proud to back down on a challenge and absolutely convinced that she can beat Ramus. She says "I don't intend to lose!", and I don't see any reason not to believe her.

I dunno, Ramus strikes me as following a trend that I'm not necessarily fond of; guys who lech over a girl who at first isn't interested and whose behaviour is then rewarded, either by the canon or by the fans. Maybe I've just had bad experiences with this sort of thing, or something, but the concept doesn't sit very easily with me. I was googly-eyed once in my teens over a girl who didn't return my affections, and looking back at it, no matter how persistent I was about it, it didn't mean I deserved her, it meant I was being a bit of a whiner and needed to get over myself. Similarly, I've been on the receiving end of such things, and it's not pleasant. Now my personal feelings aren't relevant to the story of Lunar 2 per se, but they are relevant inasmuch as I know what those situations feel like, and I think Lemina deserves better. ;) (But I guess if you're like Alunissage and just want to torture her... well, I'd go for candle wax and ice cubes myself, y'all do as you will.... ;) )
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:27 am

Hehehe. I suppose it isn't so much that I want to torture her as that I don't think she deserves better. Hotheaded, stubborn, certain she'll win, and writing bad poetry...these are not traits to reward. But taking responsibility for her choice and following through if she loses to Ramus might help her grow up.

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Postby Kizyr » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:07 am

Racoati wrote:"Looks" younger? I guess it's illustrated, then?


A couple of illustrations are throughout each novel. There's no high-res version of the cover on LunarNET, but you can sort of see her mother in the small thumbnail icon we have of it.

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Description of when it takes place is there, too. KF
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Postby Shiva Indis » Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:38 pm

??? Do you mean the cover? The other character on the cover is Tio, an apprentice priest. I don't yet know his motivation of tagging along with Lemina, though. Another significant character in this story is Borgan's cousin Morris/Mohris (it's rendered slightly differently than the Morris of Vane Airship Stories,) who is a rather smarmy, though handsome, looking fellow. I suspect that nothing good will come of him.
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:30 pm

Shiva Indis wrote:??? Do you mean the cover? The other character on the cover is Tio, an apprentice priest. I don't yet know his motivation of tagging along with Lemina, though. Another significant character in this story is Borgan's cousin Morris/Mohris (it's rendered slightly differently than the Morris of Vane Airship Stories,) who is a rather smarmy, though handsome, looking fellow. I suspect that nothing good will come of him.


Whoops, my bad.

I should've said inside flap(s). No scan yet of that. KF
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Postby Racoati » Mon Jan 23, 2006 3:20 pm

Alunissage wrote:Hehehe. I suppose it isn't so much that I want to torture her as that I don't think she deserves better. Hotheaded, stubborn, certain she'll win, and writing bad poetry...these are not traits to reward. But taking responsibility for her choice and following through if she loses to Ramus might help her grow up.


Aww, but you gotta remember she is young, though. I mean, at 16 weren't a lot of kids stubborn, hotheaded and writing bad poetry? (Her poetry's better than a lot of emo kid stuff I've read, anyway. At least it didn't refer to the blackness of the human heart, the futility of continued existence, the desire to escape the endless torment of the eternal night.... well, not the stuff we saw, anyway. ;) ) I don't think they're traits to reward, but I don't think they're traits to punish, either. They're the kind of thing she can learn about via less drastic methods than having to marry someone she doesn't love, and I do think she grows up a lot in the series. I mean, this is what I mean when I say there's more to Lemina than most people see -- it seemed fairly obvious to me that she does care about Vane, that she cares hellishly about her mother, that she cares for her friends -- she can be too proud to show it sometimes, and to a large extent I tend to believe her overconfident, brash, boastful attitude is a defence. We learn in EBC that she was never particularly popular with her peers in Vane -- even from EB it's easy to tell she's a mommy's girl -- and I suspect the reason she acts so over the top is as a backlash against not being taken seriously or treated with respect, yet because she's young and naive and doesn't really grok the subtleties she overdoes it and comes off a bit silly and shallow. I don't think she is. Some people defend against that kind of stuff by withdrawing and becoming shy, Lemina just goes "zomg rawr I'm the best thing since sliced bread" probably because she feels if she says it enough, she'll convince herself -- it's perfectly obvious from the way she acts when Borgan kidnaps Miria that she doesn't have as much confidence in herself as she makes out.

[--this message brought to you by the Society for Protection of Lemina]

KF -- *squint* wow, I can kind of see that. ;) I do wish I had the novel myself, I'd love to see the cover larger and the actual illustrations. Anyone consider it for a donation to the shrine I'm working on? ;) Or just a donation period -- we take silver, precious gems, dragon diamonds.... hey, it's a Lemina shrine, I gotta do the expected plug. ;)
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:50 pm

KF -- *squint* wow, I can kind of see that. Wink I do wish I had the novel myself, I'd love to see the cover larger and the actual illustrations. Anyone consider it for a donation to the shrine I'm working on? Wink Or just a donation period -- we take silver, precious gems, dragon diamonds.... hey, it's a Lemina shrine, I gotta do the expected plug. Wink


Hi-res scans will come with new summaries of each of the novels. Maybe earlier if I have time to update all the sections.

I'm ambivalent about providing scans up here of all the illustrations. Illustrations wouldn't substitute for the book (unlike full scans of the manga or scanslations--which LunarNET will never do, by the way), but it's still something I'd rather mull over first.

Re: your analysis of Lemina. When you put it that way, she has a lot in common with Nash. Nash's redeeming characteristics come in how much he grows. Granted, I really didn't like him, even at the end (both TSS and SSS), but I could at the very least come to respect him.

Nash, a lot like Lemina, is the most likely person to slip up and make mistakes. I suppose they remind us of how human the party can be. KF
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Postby Racoati » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: illustrations -- 'tis more than fair enough, and your right to do so. It's one of those things that very few English-speaking people will ever actually have the opportunity to buy, so I think it's about as moral as, say, providing a plain text translation; diehards will buy the book anyway, just like I buy artbooks even if scans are available, and it's something only diehards would do the research to get hold of, so I don't think anyone loses money. But it's what you think, o' course.

Re: Lemina/Nash -- they're actually related, aren't they? Lemina is the descendant of Mia/Nash most likely? Which makes it extra interesting.... I do agree, her flaws are what make her human. I like characters who aren't perfect, who have personality hurdles to get over, who grow because they have growing to do at the start. I think Lemina's got an intrinsically good heart beneath all she acts out -- for one thing, she couldn't have done what she did, been one of the party and harnessed the power of humanity if she had only selfish motivations, I think -- and there's a lot of potential there in her. She just needs a bit of tender loving appreciation, and things. ^^
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Postby Dr. Casey » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:46 pm

Wait... where does Lemina stash this poetry of hers? I've beaten Eternal Blue twice but never came across anything like this.



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