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For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
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phyco126
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Postby phyco126 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 pm

Hey Kiz, that somewhat goes in line with what I had in a somewhat fanfiction, about the Vile Tribe attacking the residents of Lunar and there ends up being a "Lord of the rings" style war before Althena banished them :P
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:25 am

Phyco, he had it in spoiler tags for a reason. :P

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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:50 pm

Well, that sort of happened with the entire "Magic Empire" era implied in the Vane Library books in Lunar: TSS. Doesn't exactly fall in line with what I said up there. KF
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Postby GhaleonOne » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:02 pm

Possible spoilers:

[spoiler]Kiz, have you gotten to Vane yet? :P That's what I want to know about.[/spoiler]
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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:17 pm

I want to avoid this turning into a spoiler thread, but just one response...

***DRAGON SONG SPOILERS***
[spoiler]
Nope, not yet. I'm afraid it may be a minor thing if it even exists. I haven't found it yet on Wrick, though I'm about halfway through the game (after being defeated by Ignatius the first time).
[/spoiler]

Wow, I just realized. Tribe in pig-latin is I Betray. KF
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Angelalex242
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Postby Angelalex242 » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:49 pm

Interesting.

Still, it does seem like they got banished to their homes.

I guess Althena did the equivalent of 'go to your room! And stay there!' Which I suppose is a form of punishment.
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:33 pm

LOL @ pig Latin.

Sounds like you're about where I am. I've gotten slowed down by reading Jane Austen, of all things. And rather pointless arguing here, of course.

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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:39 pm

And I'm sure having to wander aimlessly without an idea of where to go next proves a slight hindrance. KF
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:55 pm

I don't know if you intend the condescension it is hard to avoid reading into that, but in fact I haven't been stuck like that for quite some time, and battle-related things have been by far the biggest timesuck. My compulsion to talk to every NPC is unabated for being unable to tell what they're saying, and I note down what looks important. It is not "wandering aimlessly without an idea of where to go next." I know you don't understand why anyone would play a game in a language they don't read, but it's really getting tiresome hearing this constant put-down of such efforts. If you're so sure of it and that I must be aware of it, why even say so? Repeatedly, at that.

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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:17 pm

Sorry, that wasn't directed towards you so much as my frustration at seeing some of the comments on GameFAQs. After the game finally comes out in the US I'll likely quit reading and posting there.

It's irritating seeing folks criticize any aspect of the game when they fail to realize that the game isn't made for them, it's made for people who can read. So there's the tendency to latch on to the more minor things that they can criticize, rather than taking the game in as a whole to be evaluated. It's about as superficial as judging based on graphics alone. What's more irritating is when other folks take the opinion of an illiterate as valid regarding an RPG.

Lunar: Genesis, for instance, has relatively less battling then any other game in the Lunar series. But having to wander from town to town without knowing what's happening increases the amount of battles you have to go through. All the little battle elements that are a minor irritation start to get more and more irritating in that case.

I'll be honest, I don't understand the appeal in playing through an RPG without understanding what's going on. But I'll grant that to some folks it's enjoyable. By the same token, there's no way around admitting that playing through an RPG without understanding what's happening revokes the right to accurately criticize any aspect of it, save for the graphics. KF
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Alunissage
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:41 pm

Well, I know the basic story, from several sources. So I'm okay with that. I do think some aspects of the battle system which are almost certainly language-independent need polish. Sorry, I forgot that you'd be seeing a lot more ignorance than I'd be willing to voice anyway. ;)

I haven't felt much desire to play through RPGs in Japanese that I don't also have (or will get) in English, but I do see some appeal in it. I like battle systems, and music, and even RPG graphics. Mostly I like seeing what's different between versions, or just getting to play something early, though. In the case of EB on Saturn I wanted to hear the music, and for EB on SegaCD I wanted to assess the difficulty. And in this case my motive should be pretty clear.

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Postby Silver Phoenix » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:51 pm

I made it through the Japanese Saturn version of Grandia, and I don't know a lick of Japanese. The dynamics of the storytelling at least gives you a grasp on the situation, so eventhough I couldn't read what was going on, the way the game played out made it understandable for me. Seeing as how Dragon Song is played on a small screen, do you feel you could grasp the story better if it was presented on a larger scale?

I don't think I would have made it through Grandia, playing it on a handheld system. There's just something to do with having things very visible, and with more clarity which enables you to have an easier time in that situation.

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Postby Alunissage » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:49 am

Actually, the presentation of Genesis on the DS has made it easier, I think. Even when I played TSS I sometimes had trouble finding locations like Reza and the Eastern Desert; if I had to look on a large world map I might have had a harder time. But when locations on the world map become available as points to go to from your current location it does not take much to figure that that is probably where you're supposed to go next. All of the NPCs have katakana names, too, except for one or two groups which all have the same kanji appellation, so a reference to one person or another is easy to figure out. It's not like looking for Bagu or Error in Zelda 2. Significant terms are also in colored text most of the time, as in Zeldas, so that helps...though I did get stuck for a bit because I didn't notice some bit of katakana that wasn't highlighted like that and turned out to be significant. This perhaps is again another manifestation of the smaller scale being easier, since there is very little kanji and so it's easier for me to note down what I was looking for. I'm fine with not spending hours looking up kanji by radical just to be able to write it down well enough to recognize it when I encounter it again in-game or get some vague meaning to guide me to an educated guess. I can understand how it would get on Kizyr's nerves to see everything written out longhand when a few kanji would get meaning across much more compactly, though.

I've yet to play Grandia, but we do have the Saturn version (as well as PS) with a Japanese strategy guide. I wonder if the latter would help with playing it as an import; my Japanese guides for other games have been very useful but I usually knew what was going on anyway and didn't depend so much on the text.

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Postby phyco126 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:15 am

Wait, there was a "Magic Empire" era mentioned on TSS? I always assumed that there was more than one Magic Emperor from several comments in SSSC, and L:L if I recall.
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Kizyr
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Postby Kizyr » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:19 am

Doesn't matter... Almost every aspect of the game is affected by the ability to understand what's going on. Knowing the gist of the story doesn't cut it.

Seriously, absenting the language, almost everything about the game would be annoying. Battles would get tedious since a lot of time would be spend methodically walking around from town to town without knowing just where you're supposed to go. Money would be a problem since it'd be hard to understand the instructions for the work you're supposed to do (at this point I'm at the White Dragon cave and have around 50,000S, easily). Hell, even the HP drain while running would get annoying since you'd have to do more running from place to place than normal. Like I say, I've been running about 60-70% of the time and it hasn't caused any problems at all.

There are detriments, I know. But there's nothing in the game that's entirely 'language-independent'. Thus far, the only legitimate criticism I've heard for the entire game was on the LunarHope boards, and even then I disagree with them.

I still stand by my statement... An illiterate isn't in any position to criticize an RPG. There're too many things that are language-dependent, even if it doesn't seem that way initially. KF
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Postby GhaleonOne » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:42 am

Wait, there was a "Magic Empire" era mentioned on TSS? I always assumed that there was more than one Magic Emperor from several comments in SSSC, and L:L if I recall.


Yeah, I got that from playing TSS originally, then replaying it found all the Magic Empire quotes in books. Most of those are found on the timeline (http://www.lunar-net.com/timeline.php) as screenshots, if you're interested.
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phyco126
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Postby phyco126 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:43 am

Yes, I am intrested. I've taken a liking to Lunar History and Mythology: Past, Present, and Future.
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Postby Silver Phoenix » Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:50 am

Well trudging through the import will give you more appreciation, for the translation, once we receive the domestic version. Then you can clue us in on any differences you notice between the import, and domestic versions.

I know I would have a hell of a time getting through the import. With the Gad's Express playing an important role in the game, trying to find where I need to go would frustrate me.

While playing Grandia I only got stuck at one part, in the game. Towards the end of the game there is a conversation taking place between three girls, and you needed to pick a correct sequence of answers in the questioning between them. I had to use Gamefaqs to get the solution, but I was surprised how well I did in getting through the game with no prior assistance. I forget the girls' names, but they were some kind of power trio, and your enemy.

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Postby GhaleonOne » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:19 am

I imported Grandia on the Saturn as well (still have everything that came with it, including the cloth map and big fold-out thingy). I don't think I ever got out of the city because I couldn't understand what was going on. I didn't have enough patience, and likely, it's probably a good thing I didn't import Lunar: Genesis. I can see where Kiz is coming from seeing so many complaints based on not understanding something due to language barrier, but I also see why importers do it, even when they don't understand a lick of what's going on. I would have imported it had I had the money I'm sure, just to play it as soon as possible. So it's a good thing I'm broke. :P
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Postby Angelalex242 » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:26 am

...I'd prefer to wait for understanding, myself.

It bugs me enough when I hear something like Suteki Da Ni in FFX...I don't speak Japanese. A whole GAME in the wrong language...
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