So I finally finished this. And it really wasn't so bad.

For discussion of Lunar: Dragon Song (Lunar: Genesis), the only Lunar game on the DS
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ilovemyguitar
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So I finally finished this. And it really wasn't so bad.

Postby ilovemyguitar » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:25 pm

*spoilers in this post*

Towards the end of the game, when you have the right equipment, there are ways of making the lack of enemy targeting not suck as much (giving Gabryel the Magic Booster so she can do her multi-hit attack for only 3 MP, and giving Flora a Composite Bow, which sometimes hits more than once, and makes her a more substantial fighter).

The story itself seems like it could have been really, really good if it had been put together with a bit more care. Throughout the game, it makes really intrigueing allusions to how people have the potential for good and evil within them, what with the Dragonmaster turned evil, and the final dragon trial being Jian coming to realize that he himself has the ability to turn bad himself if he doesn't listen to input from those around him (which I think is a fantastic way to illustrate the general theme of the Lunar series, which is that there is power in numbers).

I think one thing they missed out on was the possibility to have Althena herself as a more fleshed-out character. It seemed like they were edging on that during Althena and Ignatius's first dialogue in Vile Castle, where it's revealed that he's a Dragonmaster. I think it would have been an additionally intrigueing idea to have Althena in human form become corrupted by Ignatius, further illustrating the danger of humanity's dual natures.

I'd LOVE to see this adventure get fleshed out into a console RPG, the way Lunar: Walking School was remade into Lunar: Magic School in Japan. I really think that if this story was given the same effort that others in the series have received, it would be as much of a classic as the others.

And one little side note, I wonder if anyone else has noticed. You know how Titus turns into a fairy at the end of the game? When a character is cured of status abnormalities at the end of a battle, it's Titus-as-a-fairy that does it. It makes me think that the designers may have toyed with the idea of having Titus a member of the party as a fairy, the same way Nall and Ruby were in previous games in the series.
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Re: So I finally finished this. And it really wasn't so bad.

Postby Aaron » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:27 am

ilovemyguitar wrote:...I think it would have been an additionally intrigueing idea to have Althena in human form become corrupted by Ignatius, further illustrating the danger of humanity's dual natures.


Oh dear god no...I felt like was playing Lunars 1 and 2 in a horrible rehash when I played that game...Putting a corrupted Althena into it would only harken to the days of Dragonmaster Alex...and I hate reruns...That was the problem with the story...they tried to make it feel like lunar...by making lunar repeat itself...which makes it seem cheap.

And about Titus being in battles...I think it would have added more clarity to the storyline as a whole if his character was...explained...lol He gives off the persona as knowing more then Althena...which...intrigues me....

but I agree...if they were ot remake it and complete the story...it has the potential of becomeing good Lunar "cannon". But in its current state...I wish I could get a refund for buying it.

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Re: So I finally finished this. And it really wasn't so bad.

Postby ilovemyguitar » Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:32 pm

Aaron wrote:
ilovemyguitar wrote:...I think it would have been an additionally intrigueing idea to have Althena in human form become corrupted by Ignatius, further illustrating the danger of humanity's dual natures.


Oh dear god no...I felt like was playing Lunars 1 and 2 in a horrible rehash when I played that game...Putting a corrupted Althena into it would only harken to the days of Dragonmaster Alex...and I hate reruns...That was the problem with the story...they tried to make it feel like lunar...by making lunar repeat itself...which makes it seem cheap.


I don't mean a corrupted Althena like Dark Althena from Lunar 1. I mean if he had convinced Lucia, as a human, to join his side, in effect turning Althena into a villain.
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Postby Aaron » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:15 am

eh...I dunno...cause she would proly be afraid of ignatious. Besides she seems to be more interested in the hero....Jian? right?


I think they could have expounded on the dual dragonmasters more. I mean if they had worked it they could have turned it into an EPIC dragonmaster battle 1 on 1

It woulda been sweet.

It also would have made more sense to explain how previous dragonmasters relinqueshed their duties to the younger dragonmaster.

Maybe they would even have a sort of mentorship where part of a dragonmaster's duty was to find the next dragonmaster so that He or She can insure the protection of Althena from...herself, zophar, and other citizens of lunar.

lol

It's kinda ironic though...the suggestions that this game makes...even if they didn't make it on purpose it kinda strikes me. And here is what I see: Althena, supreme goddess of Lunar incapable of being strong enough to protect herself. So people need to rise up and protect god. Or hte use of god as a way to manipulate people. I konw this is basic stuff and simple. But maybe the creators of the story are trying to say something. Think about that...its interesting. The concept. I know they also hit on the Humanity of..."togetherness" but...I'm not talking about that theme.

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:08 pm

ATTENTION: Lunar: Dragon Song is an atrocity to the series and was one of the biggest disappointments i've experienced. The dialogue had something around 20% of the quality i was realistically expecting. The DS is very capable of outputting decent stereo sound and i'm sure with the size of Metroid Prime: Hunters they could have made a larger game and could have included voice acting. I also wanted a lot of anime sequences. The fighting frustrates me to the point that i'd rather not go into it. You also couldn't check as many shelves and there wasn't anywhere near as much text as a whole.

Summary: Stop defending this game out of your love of Lunar and see this game for what it is...awful. "A rose by any other name is just as sweet.", correct? Then the reverse should also hold true. You'd bash this game or push it out of your mind completely if it were named differently.

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Postby phyco126 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:23 pm

BG, just because you think the game is aweful, doesn't mean that someone else should think of it too. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I'm sure this game falls under that quote. Many will think it's aweful, I even think it could have done better and I haven't even played it, yet there is always going to be at least one person who loves the game, and can look past the flaws.
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:30 pm

I'm aware of rule exceptions and how they always exist. I don't address that because i believe it should go without the saying. Most people will not appreciate this game regardless of hype or expectations.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:29 pm

I'm not saying it's an amazing game. I'm saying it's not the steaming pile of crap that a lot of people seem to treat is as.

Dragon Song has a lot of great ideas in it that are simply overshadowed by gameplay issues and a rushed-together production.

I'd probably enjoy the game a lot more if it didn't have the name Lunar attached to it, actually, because then I wouldn't have expected the greatness of the past games in the series.
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:30 pm

I'll be quite surprised if you seriously play this game again any time soon.

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Postby ilovemyguitar » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:36 pm

I'm not planning on it, but that's more because I don't really replay any RPGs. The only ones I ever actually replay are the PSX Lunar titles (I'd play the Sega CD originals, but my Sega CD has seen better days, haha).
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Postby Alunissage » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:03 am

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Summary: Stop defending this game out of your love of Lunar and see this game for what it is...awful. "A rose by any other name is just as sweet.", correct? Then the reverse should also hold true. You'd bash this game or push it out of your mind completely if it were named differently.

Pretty damned insulting to assume that an opinion that doesn't match yours is out of blind loyalty to a name. It's a safe bet that the longtime readers of this board know more about the game than you do and, furthermore, are fully capable of making up their own minds about what they find acceptable without your unsolicited input.

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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:19 pm

Alunissage wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:Summary: Stop defending this game out of your love of Lunar and see this game for what it is...awful. "A rose by any other name is just as sweet.", correct? Then the reverse should also hold true. You'd bash this game or push it out of your mind completely if it were named differently.

Pretty damned insulting to assume that an opinion that doesn't match yours is out of blind loyalty to a name. It's a safe bet that the longtime readers of this board know more about the game than you do and, furthermore, are fully capable of making up their own minds about what they find acceptable without your unsolicited input.


I'm just saying that chances are the number of people playing the game would've been significantly different had it not been a Lunar and people would be much less lenient.

Considering how much everyone was (and still are) dying for an all new Lunar that they'd struggle to enjoy it and make the proper excuses for it.

People react with such hostility to things like this...as if they feel my opinion is poised to overthrow theirs and set itself as fact.

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Postby Aaron » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:33 pm

i dont see how it is insulting to you to insult a game...but anyway its his own opinion.

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Postby Alunissage » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:57 pm

It's not that he's insulting the game, it's that he's saying that people who don't call it an atrocity are "defending this game out of your love of Lunar" and "struggl[ing] to enjoy it and make the proper excuses for it", and would "bash this game or push it out of your mind completely if it were named differently". That's saying that the people he's addressing are only forming their not-totally-negative opinions based solely on the name and aren't actually thinking about the game or analyzing its strengths and weaknesses.

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:People react with such hostility to things like this...as if they feel my opinion is poised to overthrow theirs and set itself as fact.

That's because that's exactly what it sounds like you're trying to do.

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Postby Werefrog » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:27 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:
I'm just saying that chances are the number of people playing the game would've been significantly different had it not been a Lunar and people would be much less lenient.



Actually, I'm pretty sure that I would've liked it more because I wouldn't be expecting something as good as the remakes. But I guess we'll never know since it was a Lunar game.

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Postby phyco126 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:40 pm

If Lunar: Dragon Song was called Final Fantasy VII, it would have been the best selling game on the DS, no matter how terrible it is. But that's beside the point. :P

Anyway, Alunissage is right. You did come off with what I felt was a "Your views are wrong" and that "My views are right." If someone likes it, they like it, and they are not wrong. At the same time, if you hate the game and think it's the worst game in the history of the universe, then of course you aren't wrong either, because it's your opinion. But when you try to say that our opinion is wrong and yours is right, then that's when it is no longer a right opinion.
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Postby Kizyr » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:10 pm

Werefrog wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:I'm just saying that chances are the number of people playing the game would've been significantly different had it not been a Lunar and people would be much less lenient.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I would've liked it more because I wouldn't be expecting something as good as the remakes. But I guess we'll never know since it was a Lunar game.


Despite what B_G assumes, that's actually the opinion of most Lunar fans. The most common sentiment is that it's horrible and a "disgrace to the Lunar series" (which I've heard many, many times).

I actually contend that, by itself, it's a decent RPG. Not good, but decent. In retrospect I probably would've been less generous in my review of the import a while back (only on the Story aspect, and probably give it an overall of 60% instead of 75%). Where it's lacking is when you start comparing it to the reseet of the Lunar series, including Lunar: Legend, and that's where most fans were disappointed. It had really big shoes to fill and just didn't go that far to fill them. KF
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:13 pm

phyco126 wrote:If Lunar: Dragon Song was called Final Fantasy VII, it would have been the best selling game on the DS, no matter how terrible it is. But that's beside the point. :P

Anyway, Alunissage is right. You did come off with what I felt was a "Your views are wrong" and that "My views are right." If someone likes it, they like it, and they are not wrong. At the same time, if you hate the game and think it's the worst game in the history of the universe, then of course you aren't wrong either, because it's your opinion. But when you try to say that our opinion is wrong and yours is right, then that's when it is no longer a right opinion.


Considering how obvious it is that an opinion simply CAN'T be factual, I feel that it goes without the saying. My statements that are obvious as opinions should be left as simply my opinions in the minds of others considering the fact that I said them.

When you're secure in your views and opinions and you stop concerning yourself with how they relate to you and the way others may decide to view you, you should be able to read an opposing point of view without having hostile feelings.

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Postby Kizyr » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:29 pm

Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:When you're secure in your views and opinions and you stop concerning yourself with how they relate to you and the way others may decide to view you, you should be able to read an opposing point of view without having hostile feelings.


You're still completely missing the point. It's not that people disagree with your opinion, but it's that you expressed it while insulting other people.

If you can't make the distinction between expressing your opinion and insulting other people, then please take care next time you choose to express your opinions. KF
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Postby Benevolent_Ghaleon » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:46 pm

Kizyr wrote:
Benevolent_Ghaleon wrote:When you're secure in your views and opinions and you stop concerning yourself with how they relate to you and the way others may decide to view you, you should be able to read an opposing point of view without having hostile feelings.


You're still completely missing the point. It's not that people disagree with your opinion, but it's that you expressed it while insulting other people.

If you can't make the distinction between expressing your opinion and insulting other people, then please take care next time you choose to express your opinions. KF


It is up to other people to feel insulted or drop the feeling, at least on a subconscious level. My expressed opinion, regardless of how its worded is simply that. It seems that it has been interpreted as "I think the game is awful, therefore i believe that you're awful if you enjoyed it."

People need to stop letting things they dislike affect them to this degree. If you want (subconsciously or consciously) to be an easily offended person, then you will be. The same goes for other feelings.

PLUS, I don't know the majority of you on a personal level. Everyone should remind themselves of that when they see me make a general statement and feel wronged by my decision to leave "this is my opinion. nothing more" unsaid.


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